(Topic ID: 252065)

Not a simple Flash restore


By mark532011

8 months ago



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  • 175 posts
  • 32 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 51 days ago by trk12fire
  • Topic is favorited by 29 Pinsiders

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There are 175 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
#101 4 months ago

Happy that you finally got an awesome result on that playfield. The rest should feel like breeze now.

#102 4 months ago

Going slow allows me to pay close attention and it feels like I ran into something wrong. I finished all the rollovers and adjusted the switches, tested with my finger, everything looked perfect. Then a closeup of the playfield shows that on the top four rollover switches, the wire shape and height are all different. To me, the #1 and #2 rollovers (closest two in the picture) won't work as the ball will hit the almost vertical edge of the wire.
top rollovers

Is there some special order to them (I didn't keep track of what went into each slot as I assumed they were all the same) or is there some adjustment? The underside is pretty basic:top rollover underside

#103 4 months ago

You could bend them down a little bit.

#104 4 months ago

Progress update, I have bent the wires down

I've also cleaned and installed the dropdowns. Boy do they look sweet! Soldering all the wires was a bit of a pain but I believe it is all done correctly and they work great when done manually...

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#105 4 months ago

It is alive!
It is alive!

I finished up installing and resoldering everything. On all wires with coil-activation power in them, I put in a small amount of protection to prevent any future shorts. With everything cleaned up it sure looks better!DSC00285 (resized).JPGDSC00284 (resized).JPG
.
Then it was time to actually plug it back together and see if it works. I moved the cabinet over right next to it and plugged it all in.testing
.
I have lights and sound, the self-test runs - there are several problems, especially the large drop-down coils do not seem very strong, they fire but not enough to push up the targets...

The switch test shows a couple of problems...but it doesn't blow a fuse! This is a gigantic milestone for me.

#106 4 months ago

On many williams of this era the self test doesn't pulse the coils long enough. On my laser ball the test would never reset the targets, but they worked fine in gameplay

#107 4 months ago

Since I am trying to put the playfield back together again and get it to the point where I can try a test game, I needed to take a look at the wood guides. They are in fairly poor shape, with some gouging and missing finish and they are in kind of a wierd ugly brownish-yellowy-green - I am not sure if that was original or not.
original wood guides
.

No problem I thought, I can sand off the old finish and put a new one on without too much trouble, However, when I started sanding, it was much harder to get it off than I expected and even when removed, left a kind of glue smear on the wood.
glue smear
.

It turns out, it isn't a "finish" its an actual veneer on the wood, the bottom clearly shows where it was glued on.showing the veneer of the original wood
.

I tried sanding it off but the glue tends to stay on it and I am afraid if I try any kind of stain it would look blotchy. Looks like I will have to make a new set of wood pieces...or perhaps, just paint with an opaque paint, they are almost completely covered by plastics on this table

#108 4 months ago

You might be able to see if Taylor has any, he's on vacation but might still be able to find you some.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/oak-replacement-playfield-rails-wh2o-and-taf-ready-to-ship-or-york

#109 4 months ago

You could try some heat to help remove the veneer. After that you could paint and clearcoat with some regular oil based varathane.

Your playfield came out great.

#110 4 months ago

Very nice! The road blocks are frustrating, but always educational

#111 4 months ago

After looking over the wood pieces, these are the easiest ones I have seen. No rounded edges or even a slot for the back arc, so I decided to make replacements. I went down to the hardware store and picked up $20 of oak "project" wood. It was the right thickness but too wide.
DSC00308 (resized).JPGDSC00309 (resized).JPG
.

I broke out my table saw and cut it down to the right size, then drilled the necessary holes using a rinky-old drill guide I had laying around. It was definitely NOT very good and I really need to get a better one if I do much of this in the future!DSC00310 (resized).JPGDSC00313 (resized).JPG
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Finally they were all done, I just needed to finish them. I tried a couple of stains I had laying around byut in the end, decided to just use a clear on the bare wood, its fairly light and a rich color, I like it. The whole process took a couple of hours, from buying the wood at the store, to cutting, drilling and finally a couple coats of clear.DSC00316 (resized).JPG

#112 4 months ago

Looking good...

#113 4 months ago

Work continues with getting everything back in shape. A couple of manually tested games on the rotisserie showed I had 2 major problems.

Problem (1) - none of the 3 rebuilt flippers would work. I started checking wires and quickly found that the fuse would pop. The right two seemed ok, I could use them and hold them but when the left one was triggered a couple of times, the fuse would blow. Checking the resistance, the left one was really low 1.2 ohms. I've got a new one on order, that should solve the problem (hopefully).

Problem (2) - the 3-dropdown target was not working correctly. It would register the drops but not pop back up. I spent all afternoon, checking my soldering and wire locations - its tough to get good "before" pics as that is a very close area with the pop bumper wiring, so I was having difficulty ensuring I did everything right.

Eventually I started looking for electrical problems in the unit. My first thought was the horseshoes were not making contact but they were rock solid against the cleaned copper contacts. in desperation I dug out the manual to try and figure out how the thing worked in the hope that I could deduce the problem.

According to https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/images/6/6e/WMS_Horseshoe_Drop_Bank_Marked.JPG
when the target was dropped, I should be able to get a direct connection from contact 2 to 3 on each target. But when I checked with the meter, all 3 targets showed no connectivity... wtf?

To make a multi-hour story short, my problem was mechanical. Somehow, the targets were not dropping far enough and the horseshoes were not touching.horseshoes not touching
.

the problem was the crossbar and the nuts used to hold the plate on. They were just too thick and prevented the drop targets from dropping that last 1/8 inch.just a bit too thick
.

I don't really know why they were any different than before, but I removed the tiny lockwasher and that seemed to solve the problem!just right
.

I put it all back together and tested it, but the coil would fire but it could not shoot the targets back up once they had dropped. Took it all apart again and did some careful testing, the problem turned out to be the nut being twisted slightly and thus binded in the slotbinding up
.

I reoriented all the nuts so they were inline with the slot and the mechanism moved freely. resoldered it back onto the table and tested...it works perfectly!

I have a real sense of accomplishment on this.....whew it feels good.

#114 4 months ago

What are those nuts for? I don't think I have them on any of my games other than the one that the plunger attaches to.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/01-6452 is the original part
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/01-8408 is the newer style with less mass and should work too

#115 4 months ago

I don't know why but the plate is in 2 parts on my flash for the 3-target and is held together by those nuts.

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#116 3 months ago

Not sure what you're planning for the backglass but I just came across this - sfbay.craigslist.org link

#117 3 months ago

I appreciate your posting the process involved. good thread! learning a lot.

#118 3 months ago

That's freaking nuts

#119 3 months ago

Thanks guys, its nice to know that it could be helpful to someone.

Today was metal day...lol

The guide rails were not terrible but had very visible grooves.ball grooveball groove
.

Since they were not terrible, I didn't need to break out the grinder, and just used the flapper-sander on the drill to get it looking good.flapper sandernice and smoothlooking good
.

it was all going well and I was congratulating myself until I went to install the back rail and the guide at the shooter. Thats when I discovered my nice new wood railings do not have the the holes in them for the nails that hold the guides in place...arrgghh..

So I removed the wood rails (not too difficult, just some screws on the bottom) and drilled new holes for the nails...

but...

It turns out I can't nail the guides in because I have already put in the other pieces in the wayno room to swing a hammer
.

So now I have to remove the other pieces to give me enough room to hammer the nails in.

not the end of the world, but lesson learned, do the guides first!

#120 3 months ago
Quoted from mark532011:Thanks guys, its nice to know that it could be helpful to someone.
Today was metal day...lol
The guide rails were not terrible but had very visible grooves.[quoted image][quoted image]
.
Since they were not terrible, I didn't need to break out the grinder, and just used the flapper-sander on the drill to get it looking good.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
.
it was all going well and I was congratulating myself until I went to install the back rail and the guide at the shooter. Thats when I discovered my nice new wood railings do not have the the holes in them for the nails that hold the guides in place...arrgghh..
So I removed the wood rails (not too difficult, just some screws on the bottom) and drilled new holes for the nails...
but...
It turns out I can't nail the guides in because I have already put in the other pieces in the way[quoted image]
.
So now I have to remove the other pieces to give me enough room to hammer the nails in.
not the end of the world, but lesson learned, do the guides first!

The out of order thing happens to me a lot, some times its like a do a job 10times but I get good at it lol

#121 3 months ago

Ugh...I replaced the shorted coil,

.....and....

It still pops the fuse....dang it. At least it’s only the left flipper, that cuts down on things to check by 1000%

#122 3 months ago

It took me quite a while to resolve this problem. Dirty wires and poor angles makes checking old reference photos a challenge. The problem was a shorted coil, I replaced the coil...

...but...

when I connected it back up I got the wires reversed, which promptly blew out the new diode. It took quite a bit of head scratching and checking all my pictures to finally figure it out, then when I reset the wires it still blew the fuse, which caused a lot more head scratching until I replaced the diode...sigh

and now - everything works!!

and I can begin the most pleasurable of activities, repopulating the playfield...

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#123 3 months ago

I played flash when it first came out.
Then, and now looking at yours, it is a stunning visual game.
I have never played one that is dialed in. I hope you will report how it plays.
Cliff

#124 3 months ago
Quoted from mark532011:

It took me quite a while to resolve this problem. Dirty wires and poor angles makes checking old reference photos a challenge. The problem was a shorted coil, I replaced the coil...
...but...
when I connected it back up I got the wires reversed, which promptly blew out the new diode. It took quite a bit of head scratching and checking all my pictures to finally figure it out, then when I reset the wires it still blew the fuse, which caused a lot more head scratching until I replaced the diode...sigh
and now - everything works!!
and I can begin the most pleasurable of activities, repopulating the playfield...[quoted image][quoted image]

O yeah, now everything comes together

#125 3 months ago

The playfield is essentially complete! I say essentially because the ring kit I purchased came with a 4.5" ring instead of the 5" ring that table specifies. I've got a 5" ring on order, also some blue LED's to experiment and see how it looks.
essentially complete
.

Right now I have 2 issues:

Problem (1) there is something strange that I can't find the source of but the table does not look square. You can see it by looking at the wood back piece, it looks lower on the left side than the right and I don't think it is an optical illusion (red circle)red circle highlight
.
Problem (2) While none of the plastics are actually broken, and to be honest, they are in pretty good shape, they are seriously warped, so my next test is to try and straighten them without melting them!warped plasticdecent shape

#126 3 months ago
Quoted from mark532011:

Problem (2) While none of the plastics are actually broken, and to be honest, they are in pretty good shape, they are seriously warped, so my next test is to try and straighten them without melting them![quoted image][quoted image]

Was going to suggest that the easiest way to staighten out plastics is to put them between two pieces of old playfield glass and leave them out in the sun. But I just googled where Lyden is.... so scrap that idea at this time of year

#127 3 months ago
Quoted from Poida:

Was going to suggest that the easiest way to staighten out plastics is to put them between two pieces of old playfield glass and leave them out in the sun. But I just googled where Lyden is.... so scrap that idea at this time of year

Hey, come on. We have great summers here, I just hope it falls on a weekend this year.

#128 3 months ago
Quoted from mark532011:

The playfield is essentially complete! I say essentially because the ring kit I purchased came with a 4.5" ring instead of the 5" ring that table specifies. I've got a 5" ring on order, also some blue LED's to experiment and see how it looks.
[quoted image]
.
Right now I have 2 issues:
Problem (1) there is something strange that I can't find the source of but the table does not look square. You can see it by looking at the wood back piece, it looks lower on the left side than the right and I don't think it is an optical illusion (red circle)[quoted image]
.
Problem (2) While none of the plastics are actually broken, and to be honest, they are in pretty good shape, they are seriously warped, so my next test is to try and straighten them without melting them![quoted image][quoted image]

Here's what worked for me on my space shuttle, that had Plastics as bad as the ones in your photo. . Place in a toaster oven at 225 degrees for 3 minutes on a Piece of parchment paper. Remove and place between two sheets of parchment paper in large book. Close book, stack a few more books on for good measure. Let them set up overnight,next morning perfectly flat.

#129 3 months ago
Quoted from mark532011:

The playfield is essentially complete! I say essentially because the ring kit I purchased came with a 4.5" ring instead of the 5" ring that table specifies. I've got a 5" ring on order, also some blue LED's to experiment and see how it looks.
[quoted image]
.
Right now I have 2 issues:
Problem (1) there is something strange that I can't find the source of but the table does not look square. You can see it by looking at the wood back piece, it looks lower on the left side than the right and I don't think it is an optical illusion (red circle)[quoted image]
.
Problem (2) While none of the plastics are actually broken, and to be honest, they are in pretty good shape, they are seriously warped, so my next test is to try and straighten them without melting them![quoted image][quoted image]

I use a heat gun to get them good and hot and then slip between to heavy pieces of mirror and plain paper I recycled for the purpose. Be warned if you use something besides glass any imperfections will transfer over to the plastic.

#130 3 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I use a heat gun to get them good and hot and then slip between to heavy pieces of mirror and plain paper I recycled for the purpose. Be warned if you use something besides glass any imperfections will transfer over to the plastic.

this is a great point and be careful with anything that has ink on it, hot plastic likes to absorb print also.

#131 3 months ago

Things are going well, I have put it all back together and an actually playing it! Woohoo!
I am experimenting with blue at the top of the playfield but I don't think it will look good under the graphics. We will see.

While I work on flattening the plastics, here is a quick gameplay video just to prove it really is working. One thing I noticed, with the brighter LED's in it, the actual central flash is pretty underwhelming. It seems like that thing ought to really flash bright... hmmm

#132 3 months ago

Plastic flattening has been completed and the playfield has been put back together!
in the ovenflattening under booksbottom half looks goodtop half looks goodoverall looks good
.

I did discover a new problem - small but I know its going to bother me. One of the plastics has a broken end:broken plastic

#133 3 months ago

Looking fantastic

#134 3 months ago

in-progress update- I've decided to go ahead and try and make a replacement plastic. It should be a fun learning experiment and if I can't get it to work out, I can keep the original which isn't too noticable.

Since the playfield came out so nice, I've also taken a hard look at the backbox. While everything works, it looks pretty grungy. I think a update is in order. The light boxes are all cracked - every one of them! so its time to start disassembling the panel in preparation for a nice coat of white and rejuvenated lamp sockets and light boxes.

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#135 3 months ago
Quoted from mark532011:

Plastic flattening has been completed and the playfield has been put back together!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
.
I did discover a new problem - small but I know its going to bother me. One of the plastics has a broken end:[quoted image]

You can always find one on ebay...

#136 3 months ago

The eternal restoration vicious circle.

I will just brighten this up.
Well, that makes this part look like crap.
I will just repaint that.
Now i have to buy new one of those because it looks grungy against the new paint.
And so on, and so on.
I have fallen into this trap so many times it isnt funny.
I thoroughly enjoy it and i can afford it but in the end, someone else lands up with a stunning game for 1/2 of what it cost me to get it that way.

#137 3 months ago

Too true.... I am now looking critically at the cracks in the paint on the backglass. It doesn’t look as good as I originally thought

1 week later
#138 3 months ago

Looking at the back light board, I decided it was not a necessity but it should not be too difficult to fix up. The old one had broken light boxes and was quite dirtypretty dirty
.

I opted for a "mini" restore rather than take all the wires off and do a full one. I really just wanted to get it painted a nice glossy white and fix up all the bulb sockets. I took off the wires/displays easily enough but I was simply unable to get the big bolts that hold the displays in to come out. I even banged on them with a hammer! finally I gave up and just left them. Some blue painters tape wrapped around the threads prevented any mishap. I did a similar technique with the sockets, I really didn't want to pull them all off the board, so I purchased a box of foam earplugs and stuck them into the sockets. They expand to seal and make a perfect paint mask:
masked and ready for paint
.

While the paint was drying I decided to use the "wires in the dishwasher" technique to clean that Vid1900 recommends. He recommended the heavy pots and pans cycle but I was too worried about them and went with the delicate china setting:
wires in the dishwasher
.

I was really really worried about losing where the wires were supposed to go and I could not remember if sharpie washes off in the dishwasher so I opted with putting tape on each connector and writing on it in ball-point peneach connector is labeled
.

You can probably guess what is coming... the wires came out of the dishwasher ok (not totally clean - I recommend the pots and pans setting) and every bit of the ball-point pen labeling was gone....sigh

Fortunately the tape was still on so I knew which side was forward and they were still shaped so it wasn't too hard to figure out and it came out awesome!clean and shiny white

#139 3 months ago

One thing that has been bugging me is the hummm from the speakers. Reading through multiple threads, it sounds like the 60 cycle AC is leaking into the sound board somehow. The humm is constant no matter how low/high the volume is set to. With a knowledge of electronics and an oscilliscope I could probably track it down. Most of the recommendations seem to be hack it apart and use an old PC power supply to provide pure DC voltage.

I've gone with a really simple hack that seems to be working for now. I picked up a cheapie $5 100ohm Potentiometer and cut one of thew wires going to the speaker and put it in-line to the speaker. This allowed me to essentially turn the sound up and down. I turned the sound down and turned the volume of the sound board way up and I get good sound with no humm.

Right now its just laying in the bottom of the cabinet while I experiment. If this seems to work longterm I will solder it in.

amazon.com link »
DSC00422 (resized).JPG

#140 3 months ago

My clear plastic sheets came in so I am going to take a stab at rebuilding that broken plastic. I also put it all back together and played a few (hundred) games. Back when I first looked at it, the backglass didn't look bad from the front. But looking closer, there is a lot of cracking and viewed with the lights behind it, it is pretty bad:
looking a bit raggedugh, a lot of crackswith the lights behind it
.

I know that replacements are available for such a popular game, so I might try my hand at some repairs to it while I keep an eye out on eBay..who knows

#141 89 days ago

Well, at least the cracks look like lightning as well

#142 89 days ago

CPR now has a mirrored version of the backglass, $269. I have the regular, non-mirrored reproduction they produced but that does not seem to be available at this time. I did get the mirrored version of eight-ball, it is very nice.

#143 89 days ago
Quoted from mark532011:

My clear plastic sheets came in so I am going to take a stab at rebuilding that broken plastic. I also put it all back together and played a few (hundred) games. Back when I first looked at it, the backglass didn't look bad from the front. But looking closer, there is a lot of cracking and viewed with the lights behind it, it is pretty bad:
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
.
I know that replacements are available for such a popular game, so I might try my hand at some repairs to it while I keep an eye out on eBay..who knows

Most of that I could repair, the womans face would be the difficult area.

Here is a Blackout I just finished, mostly for the practice and working out new techniques. Took me about 2 weeks and I bet I could still pick at it another day. The lit areas are always the hardest to make look good.

e9f4c27fa5a3f184aad24a765b51246656125bfd (resized).jpg5c4540465d0f1dec1e59c8b78a471131b5e0a84e (resized).jpg42b17cb3920dcc78c5dc1041dc55db2ebe66199f (resized).jpg
#144 89 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Most of that I could repair, the womans face would be the difficult area.
Here is a Blackout I just finished, mostly for the practice and working out new techniques. Took me about 2 weeks and I bet I could still pick at it another day. The lit areas are always the hardest to make look good.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

What kind of paint is that?

#145 89 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

What kind of paint is that?

About 4 or 5 different ones! There is enamel, oil based, acrylic and some rattle can I'm unsure of for good measure. Depends on what area I'm working in and if light shines through or not.

#146 89 days ago

That is really nice! I figured I would start with opaque black, that should be relatively easy to match...lol

#147 89 days ago

Great write-up. Gives me hope that I could do a clear coat myself!

Thank you.

#148 88 days ago
Quoted from mark532011:

That is really nice! I figured I would start with opaque black, that should be relatively easy to match...lol

Its ok, I'm continuing to hone my craft. On this one I started using wet/dry sanding paper to level sections of touchup, stencils, different types and thicknesses of paint and experimenting with rattle cans.

I see an air brush setup in my near future. Enjoy doing the work, I find it relaxing.

#149 88 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Its ok, I'm continuing to hone my craft. On this one I started using wet/dry sanding paper to level sections of touchup, stencils, different types and thicknesses of paint and experimenting with rattle cans.
I see an air brush setup in my near future. Enjoy doing the work, I find it relaxing.

The glass on my laserball is bad. I've shot it with triple thick and experimented with water based acrylics for the red circles and don't like the results. I've purchased a bunch of different colored theater lighting gels and will be seeing what that looks like shortly. I've seen it on other glasses and it made a terrible glass presentable.

#150 88 days ago
Quoted from treborlicec:

The glass on my laserball is bad. I've shot it with triple thick and experimented with water based acrylics for the red circles and don't like the results. I've purchased a bunch of different colored theater lighting gels and will be seeing what that looks like shortly. I've seen it on other glasses and it made a terrible glass presentable.

One area I want to experiment with an air brush and enamel thinned out so it levels better.

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