They are supposed to be drooped. See NeilMcRae ’s post: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/it-s-time-to-talk-about-cgc-remake-flippers-/page/2#post-6224796

Same here. This is something that has objective data available. It can be measured.

Comments about feelings aren’t helpful measurements, they are just a claim and do nothing to help find a solution.

I will say that skilled players (I count CrazyLevi among them) tend to notice differences that players like me simply chalk up to normal differences between any two tables.

Establishing a baseline “correct” definition on the originals is a challenge too, since they have all been rebuilt multiple times by now. It will take a coordinated effort to do so and probably involve multiple people.

I think you mean objective in this sentence.

If I were designing the testing my goal would be determining if there is a difference specific to the remakes.

Let’s be clear about “feelings”. While they are not objective measurements, it doesn’t mean they are wrong. In my opinion the burden of proof lies with the claimant. If the claimant provides good evidence to support their claim remake flippers are <insert claim here> I’ll accept it.

One challenge to someone investigating a claim of “feels different” is determining what that even means. Without a specific definition you could end up testing an unfalsifiable proposition and getting nowhere.

Yes, per Brian Eddy- https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/it-s-time-to-talk-about-cgc-remake-flippers-/page/2#post-6224796

I don’t understand what you mean. The game can’t tell if a ball is present. If the button is pressed, it flips. If the force applied is different between original and remake it applies no matter where (or if) a ball is in proximity to the flipper.

What about measuring ball speed as a determining factor? If a flip propels the ball at a speed within tolerance that would mean the force applied was the same, right? I’m thinking maybe a setup where you can measure ball speed at a predetermined point on the playfield. Take 100+ measurements, monitor coil temp, move to another point. Could test shots taken from any part of the flipper you want to test.

Questions I can think of regarding the above methodology:
1: Is ball speed an accurate measure of force applied?
2: ??? what else???

Until the people who claim the originals feel different than the remakes articulate that difference in a measurable way you don’t know what to investigate and you can’t address their concerns.

There is little to be gained with actual measurable data because the “feelings” data is undefined (so far).

I don’t think it’s hopeless though. Race drivers manage to communicate clearly with mechanics and engineers. Hard to work out a common language to address issues when a group doesn’t have the advantages of close proximity and shared equipment to work on. Just additional challenges I guess.

I wonder what testing CGC has already done on this?

Could it really though? If an OG flipper propels the ball at X velocity and a remake flipper propels the ball at X velocity and it takes the same amount of time to get to that velocity is it relevant how that velocity is achieved?

Because of geometry, the closer you are to the tip of the flipper, the faster the bat is moving.

Ask yourself if that’s even possible before you spend money and effort investigating. The game doesn’t know the position of the ball. What factor(s) can cause a weak shot, but only at the tip? Maybe the remake bats are flexing more than OG bats?

Seems like a high-speed camera could test this. Plotting the acceleration curves between OG and remakes might show something interesting.

I’m still not getting it. Both ends of the flipper complete the stroke at the same time. If it’s a weak shot at the tip it’s also a weak shot at the cradle.

Maybe one would notice it more at the tip due to the delta variation between tip and cradle? But it’s still the same rotational energy being applied to the flipper bat.

It hasn’t yet been established there is a culprit. So far we just have some educated guesses on what might be different and/or how we might test different things.

The acceleration plot seems the most likely to show if there is a difference IMO.

You keep repeating this as if it’s meaningful. There are also many flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers. Many of those people are wrong.

The number of people that believe something has no bearing on whether that thing is true or not.

If the ‘flipper difference’ issue is to be settled, first it has to be identified. A specific claim made, articulated in a way that can be investigated and shown to be accurate or inaccurate. After the claim is made, then measurements can be made and published.

Until such a claim is made the likely response to any finding will be ‘that’s not the difference I was talking about’.