Quoted from Chrizg:

This 100%. All your OG MB, MM and AFM have older flipper parts that have been flipped 100k + times. 14k plays is around a million flips so prob more flips on those parts. Each time they flip the plunger hits the coil stop and grinds off a tiny amount of metal (black dust) and shortens the stop and plunger and over time the plunger and coil stop have shortened giving the idea it has a longer stroke. Rebuild your OG flipper mechs and they will have the same up and down stroke as the remakes.

Quoted from mbeardsley:

When the flipper power is adjusted in the CGC menu, what is actually being changed to produce a stronger/weaker flipper?
Are they dynamically changing the voltage to the coil? Changing the signal timing somehow?
I would have thought that a flipper's power would be determined by the coil being used and would then not be variable.

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Lol dude. This topic has been discussed and nauseum since the first MMr hit the streets. I will never not roll my eyes at the purists who have to insist every chance they get that the originals are better than the remakes. That’s what Pinside is for!
BEAT originals were going for $10k plus before the remarks hit. It is what it is.
Levi is right, the flipper stroke ships different on the remakes. It’s adjustable. So now we get to debate originals versus remakes again? Yay!
Slow morning on Pinside!

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Joking with you by referencing a pierce of gum? Boy, you’ve gone soft Levi.
Only deal I’ve ever regretted, only deal where the seller failed to disclose dramatic flaws. It amuses me to reference the gum under the cabinet. That will always be funny to me. I told Levi that he’s lucky I don’t riff on the other stuff. Like:
The borked backbox- upper right corner damage. Wood separation. A mess.
The large chip in the front of the cabinet
The broken sling plastics held together with scotch tape.
The missing plastic - the largest in the game (that you replaced after I complained)
The broken coin door plastics.
Mind you, Levi posted PICTURES and a description of the game on a Pinside when selling. Revealing none of these things. His price was full market for a nice players game, and upon arrival to pick it up and express disappointment he says “well, it is what it is and I can sell this game as is for this price so I won’t lower the price”...and that will never not be uncool.
I bought the game because my time is valuable and I spent it driving into NYC to get a game I really wanted. And yes, the playfield was pretty good and it played well. There was a pin gulp attached to the game when I showed up. When Levi cavalierly insisted I buy the game “as is or walk”, I claimed the Pingulp. He’s never gotten over it!
Here’s the real message people: if you typically buy nice HUO games by private sellers and that’s your standard, don’t buy from Levi. He runs a pinball flea market. I learned my lesson.
And lighten up. Play your original AFM.

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Joking with you by referencing a pierce of gum? Boy, you’ve gone soft Levi.
Only deal I’ve ever regretted, only deal where the seller failed to disclose dramatic flaws. It amuses me to reference the gum under the cabinet. That will always be funny to me. I told Levi that he’s lucky I don’t riff on the other stuff. Like:
The borked backbox- upper right corner damage. Wood separation. A mess.
The large chip in the front of the cabinet
The broken sling plastics held together with scotch tape.
The missing plastic - the largest in the game (that you replaced after I complained)
The broken coin door plastics.
Mind you, Levi posted PICTURES and a description of the game on a Pinside when selling. Revealing none of these things. His price was full market for a nice players game, and upon arrival to pick it up I express disappointment he says “well, it is what it is and I can sell this game as is for this price so I won’t lower the price”...and that will never not be uncool.
I bought the game because my time is valuable and I spent it driving into NYC to get a game I really wanted. And yes, the playfield was pretty good and it played well. There was a pin gulp attached to the game when I showed up. When Levi cavalierly insisted I buy the game “as is or walk”, I claimed the Pingulp. He’s never gotten over it!
Here’s the real message people: if you typically buy nice HUO games by private sellers and that’s your standard, don’t buy from Levi. He runs a pinball flea market. I learned my lesson.
And lighten up. Play your original AFM.

Quoted from mbeardsley:

Wow...least helpful post ever. I was simply asking a question. And since according to you "everyone knows the answer", why didn't you just provide the answer?
Instead, you want me to pull the machine out and open it up, then go through various settings in the menu and compare the voltages for each setting, then set up an oscilloscope and compare the signal timings for each setting. All this to find out the answer to a question that "everyone knows", but you are unwilling to answer.
Thanks for all the help.

Quoted from jawjaw:

If you knew all that and still made the deal then why complain about it? If condition and price were a problem then you should of walked.

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Jesus H Christ I wasn’t complaining about it! Where was I complaining? Show me? Not until Levi’s character assassination.
I’m done here now. I guess I should have opened a “Woe is me, have I been taken?” thread on Pinside 7 years ago and watch it blow up. It probably would have cost Levi a little something back then. But I didn’t did I? I protected his rep because yeah, I took the game home. Undisclosed damage and all. My bad.
SMGDH.

Quoted from TreyBo69:

The software changes the initial timing of the power stroke pulse. Fliptronics, and other modern flipper designs, use computer timing to change from power to hold coil (and the EOS is used to detect knockdowns to repulse the flipper back up). Stronger flipper setting = longer initial pulse
The type of coil also matters in power. The biggest change is Fliptronics was (I believe) hardware logic that isn’t adjustable, where as modern controllers can vary this timing for the user to make minor adjustments as needed.

This is laughably wrong.

Quoted from TreyBo69:

Why don’t you do this and post the results? You’re the one making the claim

Quoted from twenty84:

The fliptronics board essentially just samples the flipper switch (like any other switch in the game) every few ms to see if it has been activated. That is why in the originals there is some slight delay and also variability because the switch might have been triggered at any point between when the reading when it was open and the one were it was closed. In the remakes this variability is also there but the delay is slightly longer (perhaps because some functions of the board are being emmulated in software, although I'm not sure how it works in the remakes).

You really need an oscilloscope for this and I have done it on several different types of games. I've never seen one that adjusts the voltage which is pretty much determined by the power supply, just the duration that the coil is energized. In modern games it seems to be controlled by rapidly turning the voltage on then off and adjust the duty cycle (or pulse width) that it is on. With something like a DC voltmeter that is essentially averaging the reading over a period of time it might appear to be a change in voltage but that is not what is happening.

Quoted from twenty84:

I haven’t experienced this with CFTBL. I have no doubt people have had experiences like this, but they seem rare considering every game has coils that heat up after 45 mins. Was the power supply getting hot and dropping voltage? was the coil sleeve starting to bind as it heated up? Was it due to increased resistance in the coil related to heating?
There are a lot of testimonials out there from reputable pinball personalities who believe this. Jimmy Carter also reported a ufo sighting. All of this may be real, but my point if it is real it should be possible to measure and document it. Only then will we know what if any effect cooling snd other strategies might have. I tried to measure and couldn’t find any effect, which led me to think it is over blown. I feel like if it is real and it is import enough to influence game play then measure it.

Quoted from mbwalker:

It's out there already (The Slow Mo Guys), the flipper rubbers bouncing around when no ball is present is crazy:
The guy makes a really interesting comment at around 10:20 about the flippers.
[quoted image]