(Topic ID: 307654)

It's Time to Make Pinball Mainstream

By PinlordMarc

2 years ago


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  • 314 posts
  • 136 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Mr_Tantrum
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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There are 314 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.
#251 2 years ago
Quoted from Palmer:

It is really simple. As you get older, you tend to have more disposable income. Stern/JJP/AP etc. are not targeting 20 year olds because most 20 year olds don't have the income to support the hobby.

Who puts coins into the machine or buys access to these places.

#252 2 years ago
Quoted from Bmad21:

OK at what age does someone have a say about pinball?
What age do you Palmer think what someone gets to have an opinion or say as to do in pinball.
30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90?
I'm on the lower end of millinials some might say Gen z generation.
Meanwhile the complaints about the hobby dying and someone chirps up a suggestion and their blasted down.
Granted they maybe some stupid ideas from my generation and the one bellow me. But to outright dismiss is stupid.
Can their be at least debate on what pinball could mean for us while "the old farts" let the younger generation enjoy their own space.
Orginal ideas has broad appeal across a whole host of age groups and markets.
Ghost busters may mean something to someone who grew up on Dan A. Humor but what about to someone born 2002.
Here's an idea, let's start scourcing from within.
Texas instruments, Microchip.
Wood.
Metal by recycling cars and stuff we don't need.
Instead of buying dedicated cabinets have the option to have interchangeable playfeilds.
Can't fit? have small table top themes and scale.
Stop selling limited quantities and most of all end scalping and flipping is ok in some instances.

I appreciate some of the points made here. There are some really cool things happening already in the hobby. Kinda why I finally decided to order a P3. Throw your money at the change you want to see. Want to see flippers keep raising prices? Keep challenging them by paying more and more for the same depreciated product.

#253 2 years ago

Hahaha....no.

Let's keep pinball at middle-stream as it is.

#254 2 years ago
Quoted from Bmad21:

OK at what age does someone have a say about pinball?
What age do you Palmer think what someone gets to have an opinion or say as to do in pinball.
30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90?
I'm on the lower end of millinials some might say Gen z generation.
Meanwhile the complaints about the hobby dying and someone chirps up a suggestion and their blasted down.
Granted they maybe some stupid ideas from my generation and the one bellow me. But to outright dismiss is stupid.
Can their be at least debate on what pinball could mean for us while "the old farts" let the younger generation enjoy their own space.
Orginal ideas has broad appeal across a whole host of age groups and markets.
Ghost busters may mean something to someone who grew up on Dan A. Humor but what about to someone born 2002.
Here's an idea, let's start scourcing from within.
Texas instruments, Microchip.
Wood.
Metal by recycling cars and stuff we don't need.
Instead of buying dedicated cabinets have the option to have interchangeable playfeilds.
Can't fit? have small table top themes and scale.
Stop selling limited quantities and most of all end scalping and flipping is ok in some instances.

So, you’re saying I could be your father?

It’ll all be ok, son. Your silver-balls will drop some day soon

#255 2 years ago
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11
#256 2 years ago

This thread was super informative, insightful and productive.

I’m down for a Lamb of God or Meshuggah pin if they make one.

Oh, and making competitive masturbating mainstream.

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12
#257 2 years ago
Quoted from Nevus:[quoted image]

More like 'ThreadLockMarc'....am I right?

fozzie-bear-wow.giffozzie-bear-wow.gif
#258 2 years ago

The kobayashi Maru of posters.If downvotes were upvotes.IBTL and thread block this poster.

#259 2 years ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

...
Oh, and making competitive masturbating mainstream. [quoted image]

Thanks for making me think on how that competition would look like.

-7
#261 2 years ago

So I've been thinking more about some of the ideas and discussions in this thread. Some have been very productive while some have been utter hogwash. I'm only going to address some of the constructive points made from here on out and ignore the insults.

Mainstream Exposure
I think some people were being far too knee-jerk when I mentioned the idea of celebrity involvement. I think the overall point that I'm trying to make is that pinball needs more exposure in the culture. This can be accomplished by having more celebrities involved in the sport, but also by expanding its exposure on TV and in the movies. I don't think anyone can argue that pinball's representation in the media is vastly underrepresented when compared to video games.

Pinball Prices Idea
A few people have raised that it is difficult for players to have an effect on machine pricing. I will cede that this is probably true given that the machines are selling out the production runs.

What if there were some sort of group established to represent the interests of fans & players to pinball companies? This group would be responsible for transparency and for keeping the prices down from the manufactures. It could act as a union of players so that the pinball community itself has more of a say in what direction the sport will take.

11
#262 2 years ago
Quoted from PinlordMarc:

but also by expanding its exposure on TV and in the movies

It's in a shit ton of movies and TV shows. There's a freggin thread here on it and it has a million posts!

Quoted from PinlordMarc:

I'm only going to address some of the constructive points made from here on out and ignore the insults.

Then you'll want to ignore this - This thread is trash.

10
#263 2 years ago
Quoted from PinlordMarc:

This can be accomplished by having more celebrities involved in the sport

Not a sport.

Quoted from PinlordMarc:

but also by expanding its exposure on TV and in the movies.

Pinball has been in a million TV shows and movies. Everyone knows what pinball is.

Quoted from PinlordMarc:

I don't think anyone can argue that pinball's representation in the media is vastly underrepresented when compared to video games.

Pinball machines are one of two things:
1. In a location for you to play for a few minutes
2. A giant cumbersome expensive item very very few people will have in their home.

Video games are something everyone can have...in their pocket, on their computer, on a console, with prices ranging from free to $60.

You can't force pinball to be something it's not: easily accessible.

Quoted from PinlordMarc:

What if there were some sort of group established to represent the interests of fans & players to pinball companies? This group would be responsible for transparency and for keeping the prices down from the manufactures. It could act as a union of players so that the pinball community itself has more of a say in what direction the sport will take.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA...what in the F!? I mean...what? OK. Sure...I can't even...what!? What does this even mean!? "Responsible for transparency and for keeping the prices down"?! GTFO...WHAT!? HAHAHAHAHA....I'm dying...this might be the funniest thing ever posted to Pinside.

Also, not a sport.

For real, start your own pinball company with all your scary great ideas. I can't wait. It'll be better than Deeproot.

12
#265 2 years ago

This thread makes more sense when I’m drinking bourbon.

#266 2 years ago
Quoted from PinlordMarc:

So I've been thinking more about some of the ideas and discussions in this thread. Some have been very productive while some have been utter hogwash. I'm only going to address some of the constructive points made from here on out and ignore the insults.
Mainstream Exposure
I think some people were being far too knee-jerk when I mentioned the idea of celebrity involvement. I think the overall point that I'm trying to make is that pinball needs more exposure in the culture. This can be accomplished by having more celebrities involved in the sport, but also by expanding its exposure on TV and in the movies. I don't think anyone can argue that pinball's representation in the media is vastly underrepresented when compared to video games.
Pinball Prices Idea
A few people have raised that it is difficult for players to have an effect on machine pricing. I will cede that this is probably true given that the machines are selling out the production runs.
What if there were some sort of group established to represent the interests of fans & players to pinball companies? This group would be responsible for transparency and for keeping the prices down from the manufactures. It could act as a union of players so that the pinball community itself has more of a say in what direction the sport will take.

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#267 2 years ago

Manufacturers

Wow, I can pick out a typo too! Just like you did to me at the beginning of this thread. Problem is that I didn't start a bullshit meaningless thread, meanwhile you're consistently proving yourself to be the biggest F'ing moron on this site. Almost makes me want to listen to a Kaneda podcast... I mean I won't... ever in fact... but in the race to the bottom, he must be at least somewhat less of a douche than you're proving to be.

Quoted from PinlordMarc:

I think you're missing a word there, chief

Quoted from Yoko2una:

Sorry. Autocorrect got the best of me while I had one eye on the tv and the other responding to the dumbest thread of 2022 so far.

#268 2 years ago

Pinball IS NOT a sport!

Actually it's a business that many here chose to have as a hobby but certainly it is NOT a sport.

10
#269 2 years ago
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#270 2 years ago

If you want pinball to be more "mainstream" then what you need is a pinball-themed sitcom show.

You know, something that captures all of the crazy hi-jinks of a pinball repair shop.

The old-timer repair guy that hates machines with those new-fangled things called flippers.
The sleezy salesman that tries to sell Stern Pros as "Collector Editions".
Wacky customers that complain about chipping playfields.
Young kids that can't find the Start button.

Hilarity ensues...

#271 2 years ago

And you still haven’t explained WHY?!?!?!?! Why do you think pinball needs to be more ‘mainstream’? Why would we, those who are already invested in this hobby (not a sport), have an interest in pinball being more mainstream? Why would manufacturers have an interest? None of it makes any sense. That’s why you’re getting the heat.

And I’m not even going to touch whatever that last ‘group/union/consortium’ nonsense.

#272 2 years ago
Quoted from PinlordMarc:

This can be accomplished by having more celebrities involved

Yes, paying "celebrities" to pretend to be interested in an activity that they are not really interested in can only go very well.
Also, who would pay these "celebrities" to be "involved"?

15
#273 2 years ago

I noticed that this thread was checked as having been resolved. So I'm guessing pinball IS now mainstream.

Hallelujah.

#274 2 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I noticed that this thread was checked as having been resolved. So I'm guessing pinball IS now mainstream.
Hallelujah.

It's been mainstream for at least 8 days! Keep up, man!

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

Why does this thread title have a check mark next to it in the thread list?
Does that mean we're done, it happened, pinball is mainstream now?

#275 2 years ago
Quoted from PinlordMarc:

So I've been thinking more about some of the ideas and discussions in this thread. Some have been very productive while some have been utter hogwash. I'm only going to address some of the constructive points made from here on out and ignore the insults.
Mainstream Exposure
I think some people were being far too knee-jerk when I mentioned the idea of celebrity involvement. I think the overall point that I'm trying to make is that pinball needs more exposure in the culture. This can be accomplished by having more celebrities involved in the sport, but also by expanding its exposure on TV and in the movies. I don't think anyone can argue that pinball's representation in the media is vastly underrepresented when compared to video games.
Pinball Prices Idea
A few people have raised that it is difficult for players to have an effect on machine pricing. I will cede that this is probably true given that the machines are selling out the production runs.
What if there were some sort of group established to represent the interests of fans & players to pinball companies? This group would be responsible for transparency and for keeping the prices down from the manufactures. It could act as a union of players so that the pinball community itself has more of a say in what direction the sport will take.

With all of the critics shooting down your ideas, I just say go ahead and implement them and prove them all wrong. Although it seems that you are insisting on what others should do to reinvent pinball to match your own vision.

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#276 2 years ago
Quoted from MRudowsky:

And you still haven’t explained WHY?!?!?!?! Why do you think pinball needs to be more ‘mainstream’? Why would we, those who are already invested in this hobby (not a sport), have an interest in pinball being more mainstream? Why would manufacturers have an interest? None of it makes any sense. That’s why you’re getting the heat.
And I’m not even going to touch whatever that last ‘group/union/consortium’ nonsense.

This is a fair question. I think the biggest argument is seeing how much wealth creation is happening in eSports. The top competitors are pulling in millions in sponsorships and tournament fees. Even if you aren't fortunate/dedicated enough to make it as a competitor, the added respectability and legitimacy has been good for all gamers.

Can you honestly say this would be a bad thing for pinball?

#277 2 years ago
Quoted from PinlordMarc:

Can you honestly say this would be a bad thing for pinball?

Yes. Prices are high enough now, huge numbers of new people would make that worse. And I don't want a bunch of hyper-competitive a-holes at every friendly pinball event and location. Some of us just play for fun. I don't expect to "create wealth".
Like I said, if your vision of "mainstream" happens, I'm out.

#278 2 years ago
Quoted from PinlordMarc:

This is a fair question. I think the biggest argument is seeing how much wealth creation is happening in eSports. The top competitors are pulling in millions in sponsorships and tournament fees. Even if you aren't fortunate/dedicated enough to make it as a competitor, the added respectability and legitimacy has been good for all gamers.
Can you honestly say this would be a bad thing for pinball?

I've expressed this before here, but it would be difficult to hold eSports type of competitions where pinball competitors are in different locations and playing the same model but obviously different machines. Machine setup and configuration and physical differences between machines would make it unfair. 2 NBAFBs linked together have the same issue, well documented as such. But an interesting idea if those issues could be surmounted somehow or the competitions were all hosted locally.

#279 2 years ago

PINAS

PINBALL - - IS - - NOT - - A - - SPORT!

#280 2 years ago
Quoted from pins4u:

PINAS
PINBALL - - IS - - NOT - - A - - SPORT!

Point well taken but neither is gaming and it is called an eSport. I agree though.

#281 2 years ago
Quoted from pins4u:

PINAS
PINBALL - - IS - - NOT - - A - - SPORT!

In my last post I didn't called it a sport just to appease you since you seem to flock to any post that calls it a sport. I called it a "competition"

#282 2 years ago

Maybe companies should make it where the pin has Bluetooth and can be paid for with an app. Then you may get a newer audience......

#283 2 years ago
Quoted from PinlordMarc:

In my last post I didn't called it a sport just to appease you since you seem to flock to any post that calls it a sport. I called it a "competition"

Sure but you still tried to compare pinball playing to "eSports" - there simply isn't any connection to a "sport" with pinball.

#284 2 years ago
Quoted from pins4u:

Sure but you still tried to compare pinball playing to "eSports" - there simply isn't any connection to a "sport" with pinball.

You could say the same about e-sports. It's dumb semantics, dude. You can call esport gaming a hobby, fine, but people and companies are making tons of money on it.

#285 2 years ago
Quoted from PinlordMarc:

This is a fair question. I think the biggest argument is seeing how much wealth creation is happening in eSports. The top competitors are pulling in millions in sponsorships and tournament fees. Even if you aren't fortunate/dedicated enough to make it as a competitor, the added respectability and legitimacy has been good for all gamers.
Can you honestly say this would be a bad thing for pinball?

Video game competitions are exciting for viewers to watch. You have individuals or teams battling each other in real time on the same arena in real time. It is actually more like watching sports….and the viewers can relate, as most of them are probably playing the same games themselves.

Pinball is inherently person vs. machine. That’s boring to watch for most viewers. It’s also visually confusing for most onlookers. Viewers watching people play a fighting game know what the fighters are doing when they punch & kick…they know when someone kills the opponent in a shooter. They can feel the satisfaction of the moment. Watching a ball fly around with blinky lights doesn’t have the same effect for viewers.

#286 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Video game competitions are exciting for viewers to watch. You have individuals or teams battling each other in real time on the same arena in real time. It is actually more like watching sports….and the viewers can relate, as most of them are probably playing the same games themselves.

I'd argue that it's a self-reinforcing cycle. Because video games are in the mainstream, more people play them and thus more people watch other people play them at a high level for money...

There's no law that says Pinball is less interesting than Hearthstone and wouldn't be popular as a viewing activity if more people played.

#287 2 years ago
Quoted from PinlordMarc:

I'd argue that it's a self-reinforcing cycle. Because video games are in the mainstream, more people play them and thus more people watch other people play them at a high level for money...

You keep ignoring the reality of pinball: Price & accessibility. Billions of people can easily download video games to any number of inexpensive & accessible devices. Pinball only exists as a low volume, expensive, heavy cumbersome manufactured piece of equipment. The arcade as a mainstream venue for entertainment has been dead since the late 90s. It is what it is. We’re lucky pinball still exists & is as popular as it is. However you can’t force it to be as accessible & mainstream as video games. The very nature of pinball & modern entertainment realities prevent this.

Quoted from PinlordMarc:

There's no law that says Pinball is less interesting than Hearthstone and wouldn't be popular as a viewing activity if more people played.

Of course there’s no law, but there’s reality. Billions play video games & understand the visual excitement & real time competitive nature of it. The market has spoken. People like watching video games & player vs. player events. Pinball is player vs. machine, and generally not exciting or understandable to the masses. I love pinball, and I would never watch a pinball competition. They’re boring AF.

#288 2 years ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

Almost makes me want to listen to a Kaneda podcast...

Don't...

#289 2 years ago

I love pinball, but can't stand watching more than 2 mins of pinball streams ... can't imagine how you will get the non-pinball crowd to tune in and watch others play

#290 2 years ago
Quoted from pins4u:

PINAS
PINBALL - - IS - - NOT - - A - - SPORT!

Here's a list of 84,123 people who would disagree with you, including me.

https://www.ifpapinball.com/rankings/overall.php

#291 2 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Here's a list of 84,123 people who would disagree with you, including me.
https://www.ifpapinball.com/rankings/overall.php

84,122. (or less)
I'm in that list, and I do not think that pinball is a sport.

#292 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

84,122. (or less)
I'm in that list, and I do not think that pinball is a sport.

Sport:

°an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

Which part doesn't fit in your opinion?

#293 2 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Which part doesn't fit in your opinion?

Quoted from phishrace:

physical exertion

I don't consider pinball to be physical enough to be considered "exertion".

#294 2 years ago

** PINAS **

#295 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

I don't consider pinball to be physical enough to be considered "exertion".

You know you can't be successful in the sport without nudging, right? Modern games start at 200+ pounds. Some JJP games are over 300 pounds. You'll never get to the top if you don't nudge.

Curious where you draw the line. Do you consider race car drivers athletes? Golfers? Archery is an Olympic sport. You don't need to break a sweat to get a gold medal.

#296 2 years ago

Just from looking at my kids playing, they are really into the same reward aspects as with video games.

1. Recognise ability. Kid loved selfie mode in dialed in. They like daily high scores with pictures.

2. there should be progress, as in moving thru a game telling a story and giving out rewards such as cutscenes, cool comments, music bites, awards added to your char.
On the progress aspect, maybe picking up next game not from the start.

3. Theme matters alot. Some here say, their (young and kids) preferered themes doesnt match our older guys, but i say for example themes such as inception, interstellar, coco, toy story would all be well suited for pinball and please many.
For me personally i think both coco and monsters inc are beyond perfect for pinball, story, sound, visuals, story structure (suited for pinball) etc.

#297 2 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Curious where you draw the line. Do you consider race car drivers athletes? Golfers? Archery is an Olympic sport. You don't need to break a sweat to get a gold medal.

I really don't know what the "line" is.
Auto racing - Yes. I have limited personal amateur experience, and it's pretty physically demanding.
Golf - Yes. I respect that the PGA does not allow carts and golf is again, more physical than some folks think.
Archery - Yes. No real reason, other than it just is.
Video games - no. I realize that many disagree here, but that's my opinion.
Darts - no.
Axe throwing - not sure, but probably not.
Pinball - no.

#298 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

I really don't know what the "line" is.

I think deciding what a sport is is a lot like deciding who should go into sports halls of fame and the rock and roll HOF. 100% subjective.

Synchronized swimming is also an Olympic sport. Those women are physically working their asses off. But is really more of a sport than pinball? What is a sport AND who wins in some sports is subjective. I disagree with you on pinball, but I appreciate your opinion

#299 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

I don't consider pinball to be physical enough to be considered "exertion".

Please tell that to my sweat drenched, aching arms and legs body after wrestling a game for a few hours.

#300 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

I don't consider pinball to be physical enough to be considered exertion.

Quoted from DennisDodel:

Tell that to my sweat drenched, aching arms and legs after wrestling a game for a few hours.

Stop wrestling. You're not supposed to flip the 250 pound game upside down and pin it to the floor.
Flip and pin mean different things in pinball. You're supposed to play the game, not wrestle with it.

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