Led Zeppelin (Premium)
Stern, 2020Quoted from skink91:I find live-streams of big events even more enjoyable than most other ‘sports’ these days.
That's as may be, but pinball is the one that needs quote marks when it's described as a "sport."
One thing that could make pinball explode is if it were to be a main ingredient in the plot of some hit movie.
Not that I want it to; frickin' prices are already too high.
Quoted from skink91:I would venture a guess that many many others on here (like myself) totally disagree with this. I find live-streams of big events even more enjoyable than most other ‘sports’ these days.
Ditto on tutorial play for example. As an aside, connected pinball tournament play where players are competing against each other playing on different machines is a different situation than online gaming like Call of Duty. Pinball machines can be vastly different in setup and a player might have unfair advantage just in say sling strength being lowered, outlanes adjusted, ball guide adjusted etc. Tournaments where all of the players play the same machine makes more sense for pinball. Even a head-to-head NBAFB setup has that issue with the machines being physically different and maybe advantageous for one player.
Quoted from skink91:I would venture a guess that many many others on here (like myself) totally disagree with this. I find live-streams of big events even more enjoyable than most other ‘sports’ these days.
Many others... of an infinitesimally small sliver of humanity.
Quoted from PinlordMarc:We're trying to grow the sport, bud.
Your opinions do not matter. No one's opinion does, including mine.
You can't force anyone to do anything. You don't "make" something mainstream.
Please review these life rules before posting your next "pinball" topic. 
No matter how much you want "something" to be about "something", it's just doesn't work like that. "Something" ALWAYS ends up being about people, no matter the something. This is because so far anyway, we are the only known self aware beings. Art, pinball, tech, dark matter, existence itself, it's all ultimately about this people concept. You will eventually get the hang of this internet thing, just keep trying!
Well obviously it can be played as a sport but also amusement. You can go golfing by yourself for fun, or you can play against others as sport.
To argue against it is silly. Its literally set up to play against other people; but also by yourself.
except for the definition of Sport
pertains to any form of competitive physical activity or game that aims to use, maintain or improve physical ability and skills while providing enjoyment to participants and, in some cases, entertainment to spectators. Sports can, through casual or organized participation, improve one's physical health
kinda out on the fringe there
Quoted from the9gman:except for the definition of Sport
I literally don't see anything that isn't describing pinball there. Its a tired old argument for younger people 
Darts, pool, cup stacking, archery, fishing. etc etc
Quoted from robotron:pinball is a sport LMAO
Yes I train hard at pinball everyday going on pinside... 
Quoted from PinlordMarc:I guess my question for you would be: with the widespread appeal in those days why did it fade away?
Two words: "Space Invaders".
Also interchangeable with "Pac-Man".
Quoted from ImNotNorm:If competitive eating can be a sport so can pinball.
Challenge accepted, bring on the FoFs!
Quoted from Pinbub:Challenge accepted, bring on the FoFs!
A true sportsman would be able to competitively eat FoFs while competitively playing pinball at the same time.
Quoted from the9gman:except for the definition of Sport
pertains to any form of competitive physical activity or game that aims to use, maintain or improve physical ability and skills while providing enjoyment to participants and, in some cases, entertainment to spectators. Sports can, through casual or organized participation, improve one's physical health
kinda out on the fringe there
I once dated a girl who “practiced” Unreal Tournament for 40 hours a week. She called it a “sport”. I laughed at her. She laughed at my Nintendo games and said they’re for babies. We didn’t last long. 
Quoted from Rarehero:I once dated a girl who “practiced” Unreal Tournament for 40 hours a week. She called it a “sport”. I laughed at her. She laughed at my Nintendo games and said they’re for babies. We didn’t last long.
And then she went on to get signed with a team and now streams on twitch and makes 3 million a year?
*grin*
Quoted from Rarehero:I once dated a girl who “practiced” Unreal Tournament for 40 hours a week. She called it a “sport”...
A great point; esports. Haha what kind of dork does that, that isn't a sport.
Fortnite world cup takes place in Arthur Ashe stadium, 27k fans in attendance, 2.5 mill watching online, $30 million prizes.
BTW has anyone watched the Drone Racing League? That shit is crazy.
Quoted from ImNotNorm:A true sportsman would be able to competitively eat FoFs while competitively playing pinball at the same time.
You mean you don't?
Quoted from hwyhed:Talking bout weird shit, last week, I found myself watching n enjoying battle bots..is it a sport? It’s entertainment, like pinball
Oh man Battlebots is the fucking best!
But yes of course it's a sport. As sporty as auto racing.
Quoted from Genjuro:And then she went on to get signed with a team and now streams on twitch and makes 3 million a year?
*grin*
I dunno, it was 2003…I don’t think that shit existed back then.
I guess any given card game is a sport too, then. Including solitaire, seeing as how there are solo sports.
Pinball is a hard sell, no matter who is selling it. It's a hard sell for the local market because it's a hard game. I've been promoting pinball, esp competitive pinball, locally for about 10 years now. In that time I've managed to amass a group of about a dozen or so hardcore players and 20 more casual competitors. Take ten people brand new to pinball and have them play a few games. Not even in a competitive setting. You'll see right away that for the grand majority of them pinball will brutalize them and quickly exploit their lack of hand eye coordination and crappy reaction times. That's no fun and usually sends people packing, or at best down to having a casual game when invited to some sort of pinball gathering.
On the "e-sports" front it's a hard sell because it's complex and the rules of each game hard to follow often even for a more experienced player. But even worse, it's open ended. I was watching one of the PAPA streams and one of the Sharpe boys had a 20 minute ball. I don't remember the commentator, it may have been Bowen Kerins, made a statement along the lines of "and that's the reason that pinball will never be televised." I agree. Unless and until they can come up with a time limited format that takes the rules and makes them simple for most to understand at a basic level, we will continue to belong to a niche game played by people wired for intricate rules coupled with killer reflexes, which is just fine by me.
By way of comparison: Food eating contest: timed, easy to understand. Cornhole: short games, easy to understand, anyone can play. Both of those make the telly from time to time and have some following. Not huge, but certainly bigger than pinball is ever likely to get.
Quoted from NY2Colorado:I have seen the future and its name is Arvid Flygare!!!
This. Arvid is awesome!
Quoted from Rarehero:I dunno, it was 2003…I don’t think that shit existed back then.
There were Counter-Strike and Unreal Tournament competitions with huge prize pools by 2003 for sure.
Since I haven't read all 220ish posts I may be rehashing... but... how can we grow something that is essentially sold out for an entire year? It seems to me that pinball has already undergone some real dynamic growth. It is getting to be impossible to even find premiums, the internet is full of scam sites (like it would be scary to be new to the hobby and trying to find a new game) so additional growth would be problematic.
As far as Jake Paul... not a fan... not a fan at all. However, Casey Neistat is a fan of pinball (He owns/owned a WOZ). The cool guys of YouTube, Casey, Phil DeFranco, Dude Perfect, Rhett and Link, the kids on "That's Amazing", and even someone like Lilly Hevesh (the Amazing Domino gal) ... now all of those people have an interesting audience.
Quoted from dyopp21:Pinball is a hard sell, no matter who is selling it. It's a hard sell for the local market because it's a hard game. I've been promoting pinball, esp competitive pinball, locally for about 10 years now. In that time I've managed to amass a group of about a dozen or so hardcore players and 20 more casual competitors. Take ten people brand new to pinball and have them play a few games. Not even in a competitive setting. You'll see right away that for the grand majority of them pinball will brutalize them and quickly exploit their lack of hand eye coordination and crappy reaction times. That's no fun and usually sends people packing, or at best down to having a casual game when invited to some sort of pinball gathering.
On the "e-sports" front it's a hard sell because it's complex and the rules of each game hard to follow often even for a more experienced player. But even worse, it's open ended. I was watching one of the PAPA streams and one of the Sharpe boys had a 20 minute ball. I don't remember the commentator, it may have been Bowen Kerins, made a statement along the lines of "and that's the reason that pinball will never be televised." I agree. Unless and until they can come up with a time limited format that takes the rules and makes them simple for most to understand at a basic level, we will continue to belong to a niche game played by people wired for intricate rules coupled with killer reflexes, which is just fine by me.
By way of comparison: Food eating contest: timed, easy to understand. Cornhole: short games, easy to understand, anyone can play. Both of those make the telly from time to time and have some following. Not huge, but certainly bigger than pinball is ever likely to get.
Editing can fix that, cut down on game times televised, does not have to be live. The real problem I see is that unless competitors are playing the same exact machine, there are too many variables in setup, state of the machine etc. that negate an even playing field.
Quoted from pinballcorpse: If Stern made a Cannibal Corpse pinball machine with Vincent Locke art *that* would be killer.
Bonus Points for knowing who CC cover artist Vincent Locke is by name. Hopefully you've seen his early comic work on DEADWORLD, but he also drew the graphic novel A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE that the movie was based on.
Quoted from SunKing:I was just lamenting the fact that pinball didn't have enough 'influencers'. I really need someone who's popular on all the cool new social media sites to validate my feelings. I mean, I love Jack Danger - but yeah, getting someone like Pete Davidson and that Jake guy from YouTube my kids talk about would be FIRE!! Or a Kardashian - man that family really has their finger on the pulse of popular culture
Theres a good chance if they start making these mainstream titles they will not have room on the lines and with supplies to make the tried and true popular titles.Results would be loss of sales to customers already in the bag(before we croak) and possibility not enough sales to young dreamers wallets.Maybe you could ruin if thats possible virtual pinball.
This is actually just a rehash of many old threads that pop up every couple of months.This reminds me of when I was new to the workforce I would try and get the old guys to change the radio to my station.Went over like a lead balloon.
Why does this thread title have a check mark next to it in the thread list?
Does that mean we're done, it happened, pinball is mainstream now?
Quoted from DanQverymuch:Does that mean we're done, it happened, pinball is mainstream now?
Yes, pinball is mainstream now. I know this because whenever I visit Pinside all the threads are about pinball, well, except for this one.
There is a point that OP is getting at here though his takes on capitalism is way off ( for another thread).
The pinball scene is going to have to break out the
"Back in my time" attitude before you could start getting somewhere.
This means an entire shift in the marketing paradigms
Yesterday was hot mess of a flyer now its revealed in media events at expo.
Move out of expo and start putting out ads in youtube and in Instagram, we all think ads are irritating but they work.
With tourneys cash prizes, gift cards better prizes shell out some coin for a spot on TV.
Open pinball days.
On the manufacturer end, lower BOM, shallow rulesets, yes orginal themes.
Risks have to be made in the pursuit of somethings, that's business 101.
playing it safe with licensend themes maybe good in the short run but orginal themes have a longer shelf life.
Quoted from Bmad21:playing it safe with licensend themes maybe good in the short run but orginal themes have a longer shelf life
Go look at what old games with licensed themes sold for at the Banning auction and reassess that statement. Back to the Future for $14k, for example. Sure - some stabs at licenses became very dated. Baywatch, Waterworld, Johnny Mnemonic, etc…but modern companies are generally using themes that are already evergreen, nostalgic, or baked into pop culture so much that they won’t be dated. They’re not gambling on potential hits like they did in the 90s, they’re going with things that are already loved.
Quoted from Rarehero:Go look at what old games with licensed themes sold for at the Banning auction and reassess that statement. Back to the Future for $14k, for example. Sure - some stabs at licenses became very dated. Baywatch, Waterworld, Johnny Mnemonic, etc…but modern companies are generally using themes that are already evergreen, nostalgic, or baked into pop culture so much that they won’t be dated. They’re not gambling on potential hits like they did in the 90s, they’re going with things that are already loved.
Didn't pinside already freakout about banning anyways.
Quoted from Bmad21:Didn't pinside already freakout about banning anyways.
The prices were shocking…but so are the prices in general right now. It is what it is. My point was - licenses don’t date a game if it’s a smart license.
Quoted from PinlordMarc:Celebrity involvement
Quick quiz: can anyone even name a celebrity who endorses pinball?
I didn’t think so.
The guy in your avatar owns a LOTR, which he once brought on stage on his show.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lotr-on-the-colbert-report
Are you sure you're a Colbert fan?
Quoted from phishrace:The guy in your avatar owns a LOTR, which he once brought on stage on his show.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lotr-on-the-colbert-report
Are you sure you're a Colbert fan?
love/miss that show
Quoted from Bmad21:There is a point that OP is getting at here though his takes on capitalism is way off ( for another thread).
The pinball scene is going to have to break out the
"Back in my time" attitude before you could start getting somewhere.
This means an entire shift in the marketing paradigms
Yesterday was hot mess of a flyer now its revealed in media events at expo.
Move out of expo and start putting out ads in youtube and in Instagram, we all think ads are irritating but they work.
With tourneys cash prizes, gift cards better prizes shell out some coin for a spot on TV.
Open pinball days.
On the manufacturer end, lower BOM, shallow rulesets, yes orginal themes.
Risks have to be made in the pursuit of somethings, that's business 101.
playing it safe with licensend themes maybe good in the short run but orginal themes have a longer shelf life.
You should start your own pinball company and show these old farts how it should really be done.
Quoted from Palmer:You should start your own pinball company and show these old farts how it should really be done.
Yeah, I heard that "Pinball is Easy".
Quoted from Palmer:You should start your own pinball company and show these old farts how it should really be done.
OK at what age does someone have a say about pinball?
What age do you Palmer think what someone gets to have an opinion or say as to do in pinball.
30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90?
I'm on the lower end of millinials some might say Gen z generation.
Meanwhile the complaints about the hobby dying and someone chirps up a suggestion and their blasted down.
Granted they maybe some stupid ideas from my generation and the one bellow me. But to outright dismiss is stupid.
Can their be at least debate on what pinball could mean for us while "the old farts" let the younger generation enjoy their own space.
Orginal ideas has broad appeal across a whole host of age groups and markets.
Ghost busters may mean something to someone who grew up on Dan A. Humor but what about to someone born 2002.
Here's an idea, let's start scourcing from within.
Texas instruments, Microchip.
Wood.
Metal by recycling cars and stuff we don't need.
Instead of buying dedicated cabinets have the option to have interchangeable playfeilds.
Can't fit? have small table top themes and scale.
Stop selling limited quantities and most of all end scalping and flipping is ok in some instances.
Quoted from Bmad21:Ghost busters may mean something to someone who grew up on Dan A. Humor but what about to someone born 2002.
Based on the Youtube millennial movie reaction videos I watch...when someone born at any time sees the original Ghostbusters, they love it. It's timeless. 
Quoted from Bmad21:Stop selling limited quantities and most of all end scalping and flipping is ok in some instances.
LE machines are literally what's kept Pinball companies in business. The nice thing is, you generally can ignore them and get other models that usually do the same exact thing. Without an LE, buyers will just "wait and see". With an LE, you're guaranteed 500-1000 sales. Collector psychology frontloads the factory with those LE sales - and that guarantees the factory can churn.
Quoted from Bmad21:Meanwhile the complaints about the hobby dying
Last time I checked the hobby has been stronger than ever. We are in like the third golden age of pinball and this one will be defined by the large amount people who own games to play at home. It baffles me how people complain that pinball is out of touch, claim that it is on the decline, and they have solutions to make it better.
Quoted from Bmad21:Ghost busters may mean something to someone who grew up on Dan A. Humor but what about to someone born 2002.
It is really simple. As you get older, you tend to have more disposable income. Stern/JJP/AP etc. are not targeting 20 year olds because most 20 year olds don't have the income to support the hobby.
Quoted from Bmad21:Instead of buying dedicated cabinets have the option to have interchangeable playfeilds.
It already exists...do your research
Quoted from Bmad21:Stop selling limited quantities and most of all end scalping and flipping is ok in some instances.
The only limited quantity are LEs. If you have the money, you can buy a game that has no additional markup from at least a dozen dealers. You should call them directly if you want to discuss purchasing a game.
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