(Topic ID: 263197)

It's alive! Well sort of... :)

By drsfmd

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 15 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by doghouse
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#1 4 years ago

For the last 6 months or so, I've been working on a project game that has been passed around upstate NY like a bad penny. It's a 1978 Playmatic Last Lap-- very cool and unique playfield layout, and the (few) videos on youtube of gameplay look like fun. It appears that working playmatic SS games in the US are frighteningly rare.

With scant, almost non-existent documentation, this project has proven difficult. A couple of friends and I have spent more time troubleshooting these board (and their totally obsolete parts) than I care to talk about... but I finally have some success to report. Last week, I was able to secure some replacement boards from someone who parted out another playmatic machine, and using the replacement MPU plus the decoder and thryistor boards that we have rebuilt, I was able to get the game to complete its boot sequence, it goes into attract mode, allows me to add credits, and start a game!

There are still however, issues that need to be overcome...
- upon starting a game, the ball is kicked into the shooter lane, but the kicker remains locked on.
- The drop target bank doesn't reset
- the flippers don't work
- the playfield switches don't work.
- the scoring displays either don't work at all or display gibberish. I know the voltage from the decoder board is good, as it operates the credit and ball in play displays.

I suspect that the first several issues may relate to the bridge rectifier under the playfield, which I will test tonight and replace as necessary.

Anyway, I just wanted to share some of the successes, I'm happy that it finally seems to be moving in the right direction.

If you've got any other ideas for things I should be looking at and testing, I'd welcome any and all advice.

#2 4 years ago

It’s more alive!

Not sure what I jiggled, but I jiggled something, and the game started working! No displays, but everything on the playfield is working! I’ll have to track down whatever wire is broken and keep at it. There’s power to the displays, so I’m unsure on where to turn next with those.

#3 4 years ago

Cleaned up the drop target unit last night and it’s working much more smoothly now. Stripped the topside of the playfield to shop it, and had to order the lane guides from Europe- shipping was more than double the price of the parts!

Still stumped on the displays and would welcome any ideas folks have.

1 week later
#4 4 years ago

This is a fascinating project! I've always wondered how people get the older, rare games like this working. I suppose you still haven't come across any schematics or documentation?

What voltage do those displays operate at? Does the game have electronic sound? Looking over the boards shown on ipdb.org, it's hard to determine which one provides the data for the displays. There may have chips on the displays that could be the culprit too, i suppose. Wish i could be of assistance, but I've never even seen one of these games before.

Good luck, it looks very fun!

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

This is a fascinating project! I've always wondered how people get the older, rare games like this working. I suppose you still haven't come across any schematics or documentation?
What voltage do those displays operate at? Does the game have electronic sound? Looking over the boards shown on ipdb.org, it's hard to determine which one provides the data for the displays. There may have chips on the displays that could be the culprit too, i suppose. Wish i could be of assistance, but I've never even seen one of these games before.
Good luck, it looks very fun!

It has the incredible electronic beeps and boops that are beloved on system
1s and other very early solid state games.

#6 4 years ago

if you know how to use a logic probe it can tell you what is going on!

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

This is a fascinating project! I've always wondered how people get the older, rare games like this working. I suppose you still haven't come across any schematics or documentation?
What voltage do those displays operate at? Does the game have electronic sound? Looking over the boards shown on ipdb.org, it's hard to determine which one provides the data for the displays. There may have chips on the displays that could be the culprit too, i suppose. Wish i could be of assistance, but I've never even seen one of these games before.
Good luck, it looks very fun!

Thanks! The displays operate on 10v. Very different from the US manufacturers who were using 170+ volts on their displays. Yes, it has electronic sounds. There's not much to the soundboard... it really only makes a half-dozen different sounds. The data for the displays comes from the decoder board, which is otherwise working (it's been rebuilt with all new caps and went through all the rest). There's a separate 4511 IC for each of the digits on the displays, and it's REALLY unlikely that they have ALL failed. The displays *are* getting power... so I'm a little puzzled as to why all I get is some random, occasional gibberish on the displays. It's possible that the individual digits of the displays aren't getting power.

With the second board set I picked up, I have four spare displays. I"m going to swap mine out for those this weekend and see if the condition changes. I may end up having to risk ruining one by tinkering with a test rig to see what I can get to light up. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

It has the incredible electronic beeps and boops that are beloved on system
1s and other very early solid state games.

Hush up Lonnie! You're just jealous of my awesome machine! (the couple of parts I ordered from a vendor cost me almost as much as what I got the machine from you for... and the boards cost me more, so I'm at the point where I'll probably always be underwater on this machine, but I'm still going to see it through).

Quoted from Startek2:

if you know how to use a logic probe it can tell you what is going on!

Yes, I have one. I wouldn't consider myself an expert in using it, but I can sort of fumble my way through it. Part of the challenge is the lack of documentation on the machine. I've learned that the built in test probe is isolated such that I can poke around with impunity, and as long as I don't bridge two contacts, I won't hurt anything. I'm less sure of preventing harm using the logic probe.

#8 4 years ago

is that a 6800 processor chip and does it have 6821 pia chips like bally and williams? where i was going with this with your displays for instrance you can tell if data is being sent......you can look up the chips online and get an idea what they should be doing.....

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Hush up Lonnie! You're just jealous of my awesome machine! (the couple of parts I ordered from a vendor cost me almost as much as what I got the machine from you for... and the boards cost me more, so I'm at the point where I'll probably always be underwater on this machine, but I'm still going to see it through).

On a rare beast like this I think costs would be inevitable, but it’s charming and the layout is really interesting. The hype to play that bad boy is real!!
God of War but like a decade ahead of its time. And that ridiculous drop target bank and square pop, the charm is irresistible!

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from Startek2:

is that a 6800 processor chip and does it have 6821 pia chips like bally and williams? where i was going with this with your displays for instrance you can tell if data is being sent......you can look up the chips online and get an idea what they should be doing.....

I didn't see this until just now. I'll check on the chip numbers and report back.

I did do a bit of an experiment last night. The back of the display boards are marked with what each pin controls (if nothing else, I have to thank whomever at playmatic thought to do this... there's no documentation, but at least things are well marked and I'm not guessing!). When I hook power to the displays with my test rig, I can make each segment light. I know power is getting to the displays... so it simply has to be an issue I missed when rebuilding the decoder board.

Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

On a rare beast like this I think costs would be inevitable, but it’s charming and the layout is really interesting. The hype to play that bad boy is real!!
God of War but like a decade ahead of its time. And that ridiculous drop target bank and square pop, the charm is irresistible!

I discovered something neat (but tough to achieve) in the ruleset. If you knock down all of the targets *except* the black ones, you get a special. If you knock down *only* the black targets and leave the rest standing, you also get a special! I've got some light sockets coming from Marco today, so I'm going to replace a bunch under the playfield-- several of the sockets for the feature lights are shot.

#11 4 years ago

Also be sure to double check any work you did--one broken or flaky connection to a chip could be enough to cause lots of weirdness. I just finished fixing up an older Bally mpu and found myself spinning my wheels on occasion trying to figure out what was wrong...where it wound up being a lifted trace or pad causing an open circuit (and missed it while doing my continuity checks from the chips to wherever they go). Not calling your repair skills into question, just wanted to share my 2 cents from my own experience. It can be tedious work but it sounds like you'll find the solution soon enough. Good luck!

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

Also be sure to double check any work you did--one broken or flaky connection to a chip could be enough to cause lots of weirdness. I just finished fixing up an older Bally mpu and found myself spinning my wheels on occasion trying to figure out what was wrong...where it wound up being a lifted trace or pad causing an open circuit (and missed it while doing my continuity checks from the chips to wherever they go).

Yup. I've spent more time staring at the back of that board than I care to admit. Everything has been reflowed. Everything that I know how to test has been tested.

Quoted from frunch:

Not calling your repair skills into question, just wanted to share my 2 cents from my own experience. It can be tedious work but it sounds like you'll find the solution soon enough. Good luck!

I'm decent at doing repairs when I've got some instruction or documentation to work with. Figuring this stuff out with no documentation isn't my strong suit, and part of the reason this project has taken so long to get working and why 3 other projects have been both acquired and restored in the same time.

#13 4 years ago

Oh, i could only imagine. I actually have an EM playmatic game (Geisha) that was literally falling apart when i got it. I figured I'd make a custom project game with it someday. No schematics available at the time i got it (not sure if they ever got listed on ipdb, doubtful), and i pretty much had to follow every wire and try to document all the switches and relays etc. Lots of work for sure. At least in my case, all the logic is there to see--when you're dealing with an undocumented 40+ year old proprietary circuit board set...well, again i can only imagine

I'll be following your progress, i give you serious props for taking on a project like this!

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

I'll be following your progress, i give you serious props for taking on a project like this!

Thanks! Time and persistence.... the actual repairs haven’t been that horrible once I figured them out. The irreplaceability of the boards has made me a little gun shy, so I proceed with extreme actuation. Lol.

I’m down to just a couple of feature lights not working, so I’ll be tinkering with the thyristor board this weekend.

8 months later
#15 3 years ago

Nice. My buddy just got mine working 100% for me. Picking up on Friday!

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