(Topic ID: 225270)

It is a mystery to me

By KYBingo

3 years ago

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  • 27 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by KYBingo
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#1 3 years ago

... and I can't find it on my schematic..

I think it has something to do with the conversion of this machine from one play for five cents to five plays for 25 cents. Some wires have been disconnected (cut) so that the head could be removed from the cabinet. Not my move!! Now that I have it all back together, I want to understand what this addition does and how it should be wired in...Please help.

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#2 3 years ago

...the game commences. For the usual fee...plus expenses.

Oops, sorry, wrong thread!

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

...the game commences. For the usual fee...plus expenses.
Oops, sorry, wrong thread!

First thing I thought of when I saw the thread title.

#4 3 years ago

That is an Altenator Unit. In a Dixieland it is used to interrupt a score counter step-up coil every other pulse providing for doubling the score or in the case of a Dixieland to double the already doubled score. You didn't mention what game you have that in. It could be an operator add-on although from the picture at least some of the wiring looks original to the game.

#5 3 years ago

he linked laguna beach as the game

#6 3 years ago

I didn't see that. I see half of it. It's blocked on my page by the "Topic Gallery"

#7 3 years ago

Thanks for the tip. Now I know what it is called. The machine I have is a Laguna Beach.

Some of the wiring looks original...meaning it is wrapped in bundles with other old wiring. However, there are several wires that are not bundled. Some have been cut... I think to enable the removal of the head from the cabinet. This makes me think it may have been an add on.

I will trace wires to identify where they come from and where they are going. Maybe this will help determine which of the cut wires need to be reconnected.

In the end, it will all work. If it doesn't all work, it isn't the end.

#8 3 years ago

Side comment...that's a rather clean looking cabinet on the inside.

#9 3 years ago

I had to rebuild the cabnet. Mold and rot.

#10 3 years ago

This is an add-on. No factory bingo came with an alternator (the guts of a score reel) inside. There were a few uses for something similar - one was to handle diverting coins to a secondary cashbox (late 60s-early 70s games). Another common thing was to enable 5 plays for a quarter. Every operator had their own way of doing it, and every way I've reversed was worse than the last.

This one looks particularly interesting, as if this is the intended effect, why would you place the relay inside the cab? I guess because you picked the part that took up the most space possible! Because of this, I think it might be used for something different from a simple 5/quarter mod.

Regardless, this is not factory and your machine will likely work just fine with it removed, (and the wires cut or disconnected).

#11 3 years ago

Will the machine do the 5/quarter without this of some other mechanism?

#12 3 years ago

Is the idea to convert the game from taking a nickel to taking a quarter and keeping the same value per credit? If so, five is going to be an odd number for this purpose-maybe! I have not seen the schematic for this game but as with things mechanical there will always be a number of ways to do this. One way would be to start the game (lite a card) and then add 4 credits to the score meter. Another way is to coin the game and have it just "run" until it advances five features (this was a common mod to Lotta Fun's which were converted to Single Coin's by lighting all six cards from one coin). It's also possible to have the coin add 5 credits directly to the score meter. I'm sure there are others. I'm not familiar with Laguna Beech but the circuit logic is all the same.

#13 3 years ago

The machine came from the factory without the ability to do five / quarter. That was an add-on, but as time went on and the machines continued operation years after their intended replacement, operators got crafty.

Bally caught on around 1970 with the multi-play relay. You moved one wire and suddenly had five/quarter instead of 1/1.

So any ability to do five/quarter is going to be some aftermarket solution. Stepper or relay with changes to timing and replay cams.

This machine likely had the option for dime 1/1 or nickel 1/1. You might've been able to request quarter, but I'm not sure exactly when that would have started. It also would have been 1/1 at this time from Bally, if available.

#14 3 years ago

BingoPodCast is right. This will require some modifications and will depend on how determined you are to have this set-up. The Bally method will be at least the addition of a multi-play relay and a cam with 4 lobes per cycle. This will give you one game feature and 4 credits on the score meter. This can be done but if you are not bingo circuit savvy then you will need help. So if you're still determined, look at a schematic for a game as BingoPodCast says after 1970 that has this feature and make a parts list.

#15 3 years ago

A super simple way would be If you have a friend who can design a small circuit board to convert the single pulse from the coin switch to output five 12vdc pulses to a 12vdc relay with up to 4 switches on it. The relay would then be used to pass 48vac to the score meter 5 times while another switch would simultaneously pull in the anti-cheat relay. This is basically how a bill acceptor is used on an EM game.

#16 3 years ago

Most of the Bally bingo's for Belgium had this device fitted.
It was used to play one game for depositing two francs.

The unit had to step twice each time to play
A Belgium franc was about 5 dollarcent

#17 3 years ago

That makes a lot more sense than a 5/quarter mod with the mechanical setup. Perhaps one play for two nickels?

#18 3 years ago

Now that I have been chasing wires...I think I can help (some). First, The machine's coin slot says, 5 Plays/ Quarter. Next, the coin mechanism is shown in image below. I have tried to draw a schematic of what we are looking at...I am not an electrical guy so I did the best I could. This 'thing' is in two parts. The top section is a solenoid with two switches both I believe are in the normally open position. Below is a mechanical assembly. This assembly has a five lobed wheel and a mechanical arm that rides over the lobes. Two switches are opened and closed as this arm moves up and down. There is a red wire attached to one of these switches that goes nowhere (bad soldered from something).

There are two wires (orange and blue) that comes from this mechanical assembly solenoid that are cut (go nowhere). Following the White, Green, Orange, and Red wires that lead to this 'Mystery Thing', I found that the Red and White wires where cut (go nowhere), and the Green and Orange wires lead to the ball lift assembly (see image) green to the motor and orange to a switch.

It appears that I could disconnect the Green and Orange wires and remove the Mystery from the cabinet. But haw does the machine know that I get five plays for a quarter? Maybe I need to figure out..with a little help from my friends... how to reconnect this mystery?

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#19 3 years ago

oops...got my wires crossed...

Green to switch and Orange to motor.

#20 3 years ago

Mystery intensifies - why would the lifter motor itself be in the circuit? If it were supporting the 5 plays/quarter, then every other quarter would put the interior switch at a different position (open vs. closed). And why are there two coils? Step up/step down - perhaps at zero pos it re-enables the coin lockout (instead of running through the CU and replay register.

Wild speculation. My vote is to cut it out and replace the coin entry plate!

#21 3 years ago

If I replace the coin entry plate, will I have to replace the coin mechanism?

Nickels or Quarters... a coin to play.

#22 3 years ago

You seem determined to have this game work with 5 plays for a quarter. But if your restoring or fixing up the game for use at home is this really necessary? Look, this can be done with some effort but for home use it’s the same amount of steps: 1) Press the coin switch five times or 2) Press the coin switch once and press the credit button four or five times. Why is this so important for you to have the game set up this way?

Or is it that you just like that coin insert plate which I have to admit is pretty sweet.

#23 3 years ago

BTW, the coin chute would have to be one either for nickels or quarters.......or dimes if that’s your desire. Only jukebox mechs and soda machine mechs accept multiple coin demoninations.

#24 3 years ago

After considering the options, I am restoring this machine to five balls for 5c. I found a coinmech 5c and when it arrives I will take what I have and make a good 5c mechanism.

Now I am in a search for a 5 cent coin entry plate to replace the 25 cent one I have now.

Swap, trade, or purchase...Anyone have on lying around?

#25 3 years ago

Frank, there should be some around. I got a new repo
from Coos H.
Joe Shoppe, Bingo Butch or Nate at Dixieland Pinball should
have what ever you need
Terry K

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Mystery intensifies - why would the lifter motor itself be in the circuit?

the green wire is connected to wire 30. The orange wire is connected to wire 70. The lift motor/switches is just a handy place to tap onto those wires. You can ignore the orange wire - it's just providing the 50V to one side of the coil.

it'd be easier if you figure out where the other wires are going in the head (or to cabinet plug wires). The way bally did it was to release the replay cams to add four credits. If you don't have a replay cam with four lobes, but have one with eight, I could see the alternator unit being used to divide the pulses in half.

you can often remove the coin plate and turn it over. The other side is usually chromed but doesn't say anything. With the quarter-sized slot, you can accept a nickel, dime or quarter so what you use depends on what coin mech you put in there. If you go with nickel or especially a dime, you may need the trapezoidal coin guides (or substitute) screwed onto the coin exit area below the mech to make sure the coin activates the coin switch properly.

#27 3 years ago

On the coast helping friends and family clean up and recover from the huricane. When I gt back to my bingo machine, things will look easier...perspective you know.

Thanks to all for your help here.

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