(Topic ID: 316199)

It appears the insanity is ending

By glasairpilot

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 11 months ago by RyanStl
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    There are 350 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 7.
    19
    #1 1 year ago

    Well, it appears the market is finally coming down. I have recently seen many used LE’s drop thousands in asking price with new premiums selling at MSRP. I just guessing, but I am concerned that prices for day to day items are going to take the place out of big purchases. Maybe those that have put away some cash will have a good buying opportunity over the next few years.

    #2 1 year ago

    I tend to agree with you. We may not be out of the woods yet, and this may just be the summer dip. But I’m seeing machines priced well for this market sit around for weeks before they sell. Motivated sellers could start dropping prices soon.

    #3 1 year ago

    Just because it's an LE doesn't make it fun or desirable. Looking at you Turtles and Zeppelin.

    TAF up $2300/yr since 2019.

    TAF (resized).pngTAF (resized).png

    #4 1 year ago
    Quoted from glasairpilot:

    Well, it appears the market is finally coming down. I have recently seen many used LE’s drop thousands in asking price with new premiums selling at MSRP. I just guessing, but I am concerned that prices for day to day items are going to take the place out of big purchases. Maybe those that have put away some cash will have a good buying opportunity over the next few years.

    Quoted from vidguy:

    I tend to agree with you. We may not be out of the woods yet, and this may just be the summer dip. But I’m seeing machines priced well for this market sit around for weeks before they sell. Motivated sellers could start dropping prices soon.

    Eh... to an extent... but the price of all pins will still continue to rise. What you will see is the price of in hand Stern pros/premiums come down to at or below MSRP. That World Cup Soccer, Black Knight 2000, and Baywatch will continue to slowly rise in value and is not coming down anytime soon. I think the proper price for a lightly used Stern Pro/Premium ought to be about MSRP - $500. Thats what it had been historically before the COVID madness. Once you can walk into a distributor and buy any game thats been on the line in the past 6 months NIB with no wait, people won't pay over MSRP for Pros/Premiums. If Stern can meet fulfillment demand within a few months they will be good. I think the LEs/CEs will continue to trade above NIB prices so long as there is more demand than supply.

    I would also like to state that of my 30ish games I've rotated through my basement in the past 4 years, I have bought exactly one "last pin" from someone getting out of the hobby. However, I have now sold 6 pins to first time pinball buyers... meaning there are way more people getting into the hobby than getting out of it. Supply can expand forever on new machines, and remakes will be made for generic licenses, but old licensed pins will likely never be remade, and the customer base for those is only growing. An Addams Family bought this summer will likely be the cheapest you can ever find.

    65
    #5 1 year ago

    Apologies, it's been a while, and you just teed it up way too nicely.

    It has appeared that the insanity has been ending for at least 23 years:

    2000:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/gzU8ZAOxvUE/qII_fx4klQ0J

    2001:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/3XZf_itbXjY/QI04T4Qr9UkJ

    2002:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/8CDhldb5kyw/JxQRQPIGmQwJ

    2003:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20market$20price$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/clAO0zIHHfQ/CbExiOZrldIJ

    2004:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/pXZDb-2V6Yk/GSPWq06-nWsJ

    2005:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/ACTs0HpQktA/x-C5LZAF180J

    2006:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/dBrqPnk7mkk/nQYyh65_fewJ

    2007:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20prices$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/femnxuH8a1k/oeXzsItDbOQJ

    2008:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/44iMVjwb68o/wXb8-3F9vOIJ

    2009:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/JsgTrS05pCc/8pB5t9oUqTAJ

    2010:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/hNRZGnOAZ-Y/bs8Js1M7sUAJ

    2011:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/DlcZoruS0Bo/VO_cueyPCEQJ

    2012:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-think-it-cant-happen-think-again

    2013:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-will-pop

    2014:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/this-is-not-a-rebirth-of-pinball-its-a-bubble

    2015:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-all-want-the-ass-to-drop-out-of-pinball

    2016:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-will-the-stern-bubble-burst

    2017:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-we-in-a-pinball-bubble

    2018:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-i-feel-pinball-prices-are-going-to-plummet

    2019:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-pinball-prices-come-down-

    2020:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/prices-dropping-

    2021 (this year was a fuggin BANNER YEAR for price bubble threads...maybe it's something in the vaccines! here's a pathetically partial list):
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-pricing-bubble-due-to-covid-one-nine
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/similarities-with-pinball-market-amp-the-2008-housing-crash
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/next-pinball-depression-
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-feel-about-these-exorbitant-pinball-prices/page/2#post-6254131
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pingreed-is-a-cancer-is-there-a-cure
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/prices-of-pinball-machines-today#post-6229413
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinflation-or-inflation
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-gouging
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/f-you-stern-and-your-price-increases
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-pinballs-the-beanie-baby-craze-of-the-2020s
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-have-jumped-the-shark

    2022:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/it-appears-the-insanity-is-ending#post-6954499

    #6 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Apologies, it's been a while, and you just teed it up way too nicely:
    2000:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/gzU8ZAOxvUE/qII_fx4klQ0J
    2001:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/3XZf_itbXjY/QI04T4Qr9UkJ
    2002:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/8CDhldb5kyw/JxQRQPIGmQwJ
    2003:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20market$20price$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/clAO0zIHHfQ/CbExiOZrldIJ
    2004:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/pXZDb-2V6Yk/GSPWq06-nWsJ
    2005:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/ACTs0HpQktA/x-C5LZAF180J
    2006:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/dBrqPnk7mkk/nQYyh65_fewJ
    2007:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20prices$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/femnxuH8a1k/oeXzsItDbOQJ
    2008:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/44iMVjwb68o/wXb8-3F9vOIJ
    2009:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/JsgTrS05pCc/8pB5t9oUqTAJ
    2010:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/hNRZGnOAZ-Y/bs8Js1M7sUAJ
    2011:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/DlcZoruS0Bo/VO_cueyPCEQJ
    2012:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-think-it-cant-happen-think-again
    2013:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-will-pop
    2014:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/this-is-not-a-rebirth-of-pinball-its-a-bubble
    2015:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-all-want-the-ass-to-drop-out-of-pinball
    2016:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-will-the-stern-bubble-burst
    2017:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-we-in-a-pinball-bubble
    2018:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-i-feel-pinball-prices-are-going-to-plummet
    2019:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-pinball-prices-come-down-
    2020:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/prices-dropping-
    2021 (this year was a fuggin BANNER YEAR for price bubble threads...maybe it's something in the vaccines! here's a pathetically partial list):
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-pricing-bubble-due-to-covid-one-nine
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/similarities-with-pinball-market-amp-the-2008-housing-crash
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/next-pinball-depression-
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-feel-about-these-exorbitant-pinball-prices/page/2#post-6254131
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pingreed-is-a-cancer-is-there-a-cure
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/prices-of-pinball-machines-today#post-6229413
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinflation-or-inflation
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-gouging
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/f-you-stern-and-your-price-increases
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-pinballs-the-beanie-baby-craze-of-the-2020s
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-have-jumped-the-shark
    2022:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/perspective-on-pricing-

    Unknown (resized).jpegUnknown (resized).jpeg
    13
    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Apologies, it's been a while, and you just teed it up way too nicely.
    It has appeared that the insanity has been ending for at least 23 years:
    2000:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/gzU8ZAOxvUE/qII_fx4klQ0J
    2001:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/3XZf_itbXjY/QI04T4Qr9UkJ
    2002:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/8CDhldb5kyw/JxQRQPIGmQwJ
    2003:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20market$20price$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/clAO0zIHHfQ/CbExiOZrldIJ
    2004:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/pXZDb-2V6Yk/GSPWq06-nWsJ
    2005:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/ACTs0HpQktA/x-C5LZAF180J
    2006:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/dBrqPnk7mkk/nQYyh65_fewJ
    2007:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20prices$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/femnxuH8a1k/oeXzsItDbOQJ
    2008:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/44iMVjwb68o/wXb8-3F9vOIJ
    2009:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/JsgTrS05pCc/8pB5t9oUqTAJ
    2010:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/hNRZGnOAZ-Y/bs8Js1M7sUAJ
    2011:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/DlcZoruS0Bo/VO_cueyPCEQJ
    2012:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-think-it-cant-happen-think-again
    2013:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-will-pop
    2014:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/this-is-not-a-rebirth-of-pinball-its-a-bubble
    2015:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-all-want-the-ass-to-drop-out-of-pinball
    2016:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-will-the-stern-bubble-burst
    2017:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-we-in-a-pinball-bubble
    2018:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-i-feel-pinball-prices-are-going-to-plummet
    2019:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-pinball-prices-come-down-
    2020:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/prices-dropping-
    2021 (this year was a fuggin BANNER YEAR for price bubble threads...maybe it's something in the vaccines! here's a pathetically partial list):
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-pricing-bubble-due-to-covid-one-nine
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/similarities-with-pinball-market-amp-the-2008-housing-crash
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/next-pinball-depression-
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-feel-about-these-exorbitant-pinball-prices/page/2#post-6254131
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pingreed-is-a-cancer-is-there-a-cure
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/prices-of-pinball-machines-today#post-6229413
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinflation-or-inflation
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-gouging
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/f-you-stern-and-your-price-increases
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-pinballs-the-beanie-baby-craze-of-the-2020s
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-have-jumped-the-shark
    2022:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/it-appears-the-insanity-is-ending#post-6954499

    This has been (still is, IMO) a different type of insanity -- where people can flip premiums because of scarcity. Where a game can be on the line at Stern but people can sell used ones for significantly more than NIB because of scarcity. Do any of those links apply? (sorry didn't bother to read them all).

    #8 1 year ago

    I've noticed more reasonable prices and longer sale times, but only slightly.

    It could just be seasonality, summer sales usually slow down a bit.

    Could be Stern working through their backlog since they didn't release a second game yet this year.

    Could be the price of gas or general inflation is slowing sales.

    But I agree with the comments above, the upward trend will continue, as I haven't seen a real jolt to the pinball market yet.

    19
    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from acedanger:

    [quoted image]

    ANd here I had everybody thinking I typed that up freshly every time!

    Foiled again by another Pinside Columbo!

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    I've noticed more reasonable prices and longer sale times, but only slightly.
    It could just be seasonality, summer sales usually slow down a bit.
    Could be Stern working through their backlog since they didn't release a second game yet this year.
    Could be the price of gas or general inflation is slowing sales.
    But I agree with the comments above, the upward trend will continue, as I haven't seen a real jolt to the pinball market yet.

    I think pinball is very seasonal for alot of people. More people going on and spending money on vacations, home improvements, etc., and just spending more time outside. I probably engage with pinball half as much in the summer as I do the rest of the year just because I want to spend my time and money elsewhere.

    #11 1 year ago

    Its a summer lull. It happens every year with an exeption of last year. I've been selling games since the early 90s. In 2020 just as things were starting to lock down I was picking up stern pros for about 4k routed. Last year everything was unpredictable. Trust me prices will rise in the fall but probably not as nuts as last summer.

    #12 1 year ago

    Good comments. Will be interesting. Housing has peaked in many areas. Rising rates will reset what people can buy. Might not leave much left for extras.

    #13 1 year ago

    Summer. Everyone is out doing other fun stuff right now. Oh...and $20k by Christmas.

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from schudel5:

    Summer. Everyone is out doing other fun stuff right now. Oh...and $20k by Christmas.

    No, the new saying is "$200 by the All-Star Break"

    #15 1 year ago

    Margin calls are a bi-otch.

    43
    #16 1 year ago

    I never thought "10K by Christmas" would eventually mean a lower price.

    14
    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from glasairpilot:

    Well, it appears the market is finally coming down. I have recently seen many used LE’s drop thousands in asking price with new premiums selling at MSRP. I just guessing, but I am concerned that prices for day to day items are going to take the place out of big purchases. Maybe those that have put away some cash will have a good buying opportunity over the next few years.

    Going down. Groceries and gas are more important for people. Along with diminishing 401ks, out of control inflation generally etc etc

    Doubt prices drop through the floor but settle down to more reasonable levels. Supply and demand and an economy likely heading into a recession at some point this year or 2023

    Think the hobby was strong right before and after Woz emerged? Nope. Bought a NIB LOTRLE on close out for $5k. SM and many other pins “on sale”.

    Stern needed an investor to stay in business

    TWD? Stern initially said they weren’t even going to make “premiums”.

    Maybe we go back to 2016 or so levels short term. Not that long ago

    A lot of people look at pins as “investments”. The risk/reward is to the downside.

    #18 1 year ago

    Pins were never meant to be “investment vehicles” play them, look at them, share them, enjoy them. But dont expect investment income as an individual and you’ll do fine.

    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from Phat_Jay:

    Pins were never meant to be “investment vehicles” play them, look at them, share them, enjoy them. But dont expect investment income as an individual and you’ll do fine.

    I dunno about that - at least the last 2 years. I sold 2 pins in the last year (Oct 2021, February 2022) with a 54% gain. I have lost about 13% in the stock market this year in comparison.

    This market is definitely showing signs of cooling a bit, but people with deep pockets here will keep things moving along - albeit at dipped levels of prices especially once Stern gets games cranking out again like they have the last 2 weeks or so (and then see people here immediately put them FS at $2K above MSRP - nice job there...). Don't expect to see TAF for $4000 anytime soon (read: ever).

    Like others have said: things like groceries, gas, shelter, clothing just might hold a higher priority than box of Christmas lights on 4 legs.

    #20 1 year ago

    A lot of forecasting as usual.
    Lmk when used Sterns drop well UNDER 10k..
    DBA2110E-91D3-459E-96F1-83E22343AAE8 (resized).jpegDBA2110E-91D3-459E-96F1-83E22343AAE8 (resized).jpeg

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from Phat_Jay:

    Pins were never meant to be “investment vehicles” play them, look at them, share them, enjoy them. But dont expect investment income as an individual and you’ll do fine.

    I don’t treat them as investments but as a hobby that doesn’t depreciate in value nearly as fast as others. Purchase price still comes into play. If I buy high and sell low, the real cost of my entertainment goes up.

    #22 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Going down. Groceries and gas are more important for people. Along with diminishing 401ks, out of control inflation generally etc etc
    Doubt prices drop through the floor but settle down to more reasonable levels. Supply and demand and an economy likely heading into a recession at some point this year or 2023
    Think the hobby was strong right before and after Woz emerged? Nope. Bought a NIB LOTRLE on close out for $5k. SM and many other pins “on sale”.
    Stern needed an investor to stay in business
    TWD? Stern initially said they weren’t even going to make “premiums”.
    Maybe we go back to 2016 or so levels short term. Not that long ago
    A lot of people look at pins as “investments”. The risk/reward is to the downside.

    Some good points there Iceman. I notice prices are still rather higher for new titles but there's some more "deals" here and there. I've seen lightly used HUO Avengers Premiums sell in the $7500 range whereas 6 months ago those seemed to be $8k. Not a huge drop but something. The crazy Stern LE prices are definitely down a bit but still way up compared to the past 2 years.

    Older titles, most of the pre LCD era games, is where I'm seeing the biggest drop and "deals". I think the LCD era games are becoming more and more appealing to buyers then they already are which may be causing some to offload their older games.

    Personally, and I know some people will disagree with this, I'm buying a fully loaded virtual pinball machine for my next game (already ordered). There's a ton of EM's, Bally Williams era games, and original virtual pins I want to play. The technology is pretty damn good today compared to years past. I'm sure it will be worth half of what I paid 5 years from now but oh well, as others have said none of this stuff is an investment and I can't take it with me to the grave anyway lol.

    15
    #23 1 year ago

    Virtual pinball?!?!?

    The insanity, it appears, is just beginning!!

    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Virtual pinball?!?!?
    The insanity, it appears, is just beginning!!

    I know lol. Nothing will ever beat real pinball machines but some of these loaded vpins are pretty impressive. I would love to own 100+ pins but I'll never have the room or pinball funds for them. There's also a lot of titles I once owned that I would like to play again as a vpin.

    #25 1 year ago

    I don't treat my pins as investments, that being said, if I keep them long enough..every pin I cut loose has sold for more than what I paid for them with ease. If you are of the mindset of moving recent purchased pins to buy another all the time, your mileage may vary. Picking the right pins plays a part also. Nothing new here.

    #26 1 year ago
    Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

    That World Cup Soccer, Black Knight 2000, and Baywatch will continue to slowly rise in value and is not coming down anytime soon.

    Quoted from Neal_W:

    TAF up $2300/yr since 2019.

    I think when you look at any SS pin from 1978 up to but not including the "modern" Stern pin, prices will do what they always do. Go up.

    Now, the modern Stern stuff, the whole LE vs Premium nonsense, maybe that's different. I feel like that's a different market completely, with people who have enough cash to buy these things new. Just like a new car, those prices will go down until at some magic moment they slip into the "classic" category.

    #27 1 year ago

    Is "Gold Ball" worth over $4k yet?

    FWIW... I like Gold Ball. Don't knock nostalgia

    #28 1 year ago

    It might all go to shit but as long as I can sell blood and semen the hobby lives on

    #29 1 year ago
    Quoted from radium:

    It might all go to shit but as long as I can sell blood and semen the hobby lives on

    Blood anyway.

    #30 1 year ago

    It seems that the insanity of in production sterns selling for second hand for msrp + $2k is ending. Back to normal - get it NIB at at a distributor for MSRP or MAP and free shipping; and second hand for MSRP -$300-500.

    However, it does seem like the older titles that have always been in demand will always be and still currently are. Many new entrants into the hobby has accelerated that demand - so the A list BW games don’t seem to be dropping anytime soon, and their insane climb appears to still be in progress…but I would suspect is going to level off. When you can get a GZ pro delivered for $6600 or a GZ premium delivered for $8700 or a CGC remake delivered for $8300…newer entrants are going to do that versus drop $10k plus on those 90 titles. Personally, I’d rather stack my collection with minty NIB CGC remakes at a lower cost…

    #31 1 year ago
    Quoted from Riefepeters:

    newer entrants are going to do that versus drop $10k plus on those 90 titles.

    I know of very, very few 90s titles that have ever commanded that as an averaged price. Addams and Twilight are still going to be valued highly, because the theme is part of the draw, not just gameplay.

    #32 1 year ago

    I dunno, I just like too play!

    #33 1 year ago

    I am not sure the insanity is ending. Maybe it’s more like a field trip.

    D0F3196C-0E74-4DEB-AA89-7EA3D678C48F (resized).jpegD0F3196C-0E74-4DEB-AA89-7EA3D678C48F (resized).jpeg
    #34 1 year ago
    Quoted from jackd104:

    I am not sure the insanity is ending. Maybe it’s more like a field trip. [quoted image]

    Thats cuckoo

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from Neal_W:

    Just because it's an LE doesn't make it fun or desirable. Looking at you Turtles and Zeppelin.
    TAF up $2300/yr since 2019.
    [quoted image]

    Except TMNT is fun, desirable, and is one of Stern's more loaded games.

    #36 1 year ago

    Lots to unwrap here…

    Pin values have been resilient for over two decades. In 2001, values saw a pause, maybe a slight dip for a month after 911, then continued to go up up up. Then in 2008, when we had the worst recession since the great depression, pinball sales stopped for about a month, the economy corrected itself, then sales went up up up. Now here we are.

    For the last couple years, The market has been primarily driven by the cost of new games. When the price of a new stern goes up, the price of used games goes up. NIB stern prices have gone up 25% in the last 5 years. You could easily say that for the used market. Would you pay $5000 for a fish tales if you could still get a spike 2 for $5000? Probably not.

    What about new-used sterns? Right now I’m seeing a lot of Jurassic Park premiums, Mandalorians, and avengers sitting on the market. Reason for this is because Stern just ran those. It will take a while, but These prices will bounce back up until stern decide to run them again. It’s simple supply and demand.

    Will demand ever be reached? That remains to be seen. Obviously I feel that if Stern ever catches up with their backlog, and distributors ever have standing, sellable inventory again of new in box pins, that will be the only thing that brings the price of used pins down.

    There are a lot more forces at work, but the sale price of new games and the scarcity of them in the current market is really what’s driving the market now. Is pinball an investment? Well, yes.... everyone knows the key factor of a successful investment is what you pay for the investment. Is a $2000 addams a good investment? Uh, yeah..... is a $2000 fireball home model a good investment? Probably not. So, pinball CAN be a good investment, but, if that’s your primary reason for buying pins, than you must be a boring asshole LOL. (Full disclosure I’m in the business, but I do have a collection of games that I would probably never sell).

    Mike

    #37 1 year ago
    Quoted from Guidotorpedo:

    Lots to unwrap here…
    Pin values have been resilient for over two decades. In 2001, values saw a pause, maybe a slight dip for a month after 911, then continued to go up up up. Then in 2008, when we had the worst recession since the great depression, pinball sales stopped for about a month, the economy corrected itself, then sales went up up up. Now here we are.
    For the last couple years, The market has been primarily driven by the cost of new games. When the price of a new stern goes up, the price of used games goes up. NIB stern prices have gone up 25% in the last 5 years. You could easily say that for the used market. Would you pay $5000 for a fish tales if you could still get a spike 2 for $5000? Probably not.
    What about new-used sterns? Right now I’m seeing a lot of Jurassic Park premiums, Mandalorians, and avengers sitting on the market. Reason for this is because Stern just ran those. It will take a while, but These prices will bounce back up until stern decide to run them again. It’s simple supply and demand.
    Will demand ever be reached? That remains to be seen. Obviously I feel that if Stern ever catches up with their backlog, and distributors ever have standing, sellable inventory again of new in box pins, that will be the only thing that brings the price of used pins down.
    There are a lot more forces at work, but the sale price of new games and the scarcity of them in the current market is really what’s driving the market now. Is pinball an investment? Well, yes.... everyone knows the key factor of a successful investment is what you pay for the investment. Is a $2000 addams a good investment? Uh, yeah..... is a $2000 fireball home model a good investment? Probably not. So, pinball CAN be a good investment, but, if that’s your primary reason for buying pins, than you must be a boring asshole LOL. (Full disclosure I’m in the business, but I do have a collection of games that I would probably never sell).
    Mike

    I think this gets at it pretty well. Stern (or really anyone else) hasn't released a new game in nearly 6 months. So really, the demand has been pretty flat, to declining - no new games means no huge rush to buy a new game. However, they have worked at chiseling down their backlog... so supply has actually increased (I know they are building the same number of games... but they supplied more games against their backlog). What happens when Demand is relatively flat but Supply increases... prices drop. It isn't quite as clean cut as that, but it I think it gets pretty close. This is one of the reasons I was kinda surprised that Stern paused their release schedule. By catching up a bit they inadvertently cooled the market.

    #38 1 year ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Personally, and I know some people will disagree with this

    I don't, I went that route a year ago I kept the games I loved from my teenage years sold the rest bought a Vpin and it was the right decision. Its really tough to get the machines you really want ...availability and budget are a big issue. When I sold my last system 80B , the guy that bought it had never played a newer Vpin ...his comment "wow that is really immersive" so for the guys who don't give a crap about the opinion of a pinball purist they are excellent. I find when I play the real machines in the wild I get a lot of free games because the shots from the flippers are the same.

    #39 1 year ago
    Quoted from Guidotorpedo:

    Lots to unwrap here…
    Mike

    I feel like just addressed the NIB, modern Stern pins here. Or most of that, anyway. The older pins aren't subject to any of the market forces that you've done a great job of outlining. Stern might make more of their recent titles, but they aren't going to make another Cheetah, etc..

    #40 1 year ago
    Quoted from MtnFrost:

    I feel like just addressed the NIB, modern Stern pins here. Or most of that, anyway. The older pins aren't subject to any of the market forces that you've done a great job of outlining. Stern might make more of their recent titles, but they aren't going to make another Cheetah, etc..

    Agreed. There’s definitely a rarity and niche collectible value to say, some of the classic sterns. Some newer games too (games like safecracker, cactus canyon before the remake, etc)

    #41 1 year ago
    Quoted from the9gman:

    I don't, I went that route a year ago I kept the games I loved from my teenage years sold the rest bought a Vpin and it was the right decision. Its really tough to get the machines you really want ...availability and budget are a big issue. When I sold my last system 80B , the guy that bought it had never played a newer Vpin ...his comment "wow that is really immersive" so for the guys who don't give a crap about the opinion of a pinball purist they are excellent. I find when I play the real machines in the wild I get a lot of free games because the shots from the flippers are the same.

    Good points, agree. The technology for Vpin's has really come a long way. My plan is to stick with real games from the LCD era (and Ghostbusters as it's my favorite movie of all time) and then use the virtual pinball machine for everything else. I have no plans to ever buy another pre LCD era game once the virtual pin arrives.

    #42 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    ANd here I had everybody thinking I typed that up freshly every time!
    Foiled again by another Pinside Columbo!

    It’s just old and worn out at this point.

    #43 1 year ago

    New games being scalped will end because that’s a sign of a broken market and this corrects itself over time.

    Good condition out of production classics will not get cheaper unless there’s a total economic catastrophe. There are so few of them in existence that demand will outstrip supply as long as the economy is not a total disaster.

    I’m sitting on a theoretical insane profit myself with good to great condition TZ-CV-IJ-LOTR that I bought 20 years ago for cheap but I didn’t buy them as investments but because I love pinball. I won’t sell them unless I somehow need to should I encounter financial hardship.

    #44 1 year ago

    Back to normal!

    Edit: This was from Season 10 in 2014. Sorry for the ‘blast from the past!’

    #45 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mudflaps:

    Back to normal!

    $2k for a fairly used Twister that they will then try and sell for $4k. Also...it's a Twister lol.

    -1
    #46 1 year ago

    Chum bought Twister for $1K. He didn’t buy Scorpion.

    Twister usually follows the $1 per pound rule, so maybe we’re headed in the right direction.

    #47 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mudflaps:

    Chum bought Twister for $1K. He didn’t buy Scorpion.
    Twister usually follows the $1 per pound rule, so maybe we’re headed in the right direction.

    Seller got ripped off bad, really bad.

    #48 1 year ago

    Yeah, it’s Pawn Stars, so certainly not a litmus test of anything close to reality. I just thought it was kind of funny.

    But yeah, the seller got taken for a ride.

    #49 1 year ago

    I don't think people realize that pawn stars clip/episode is from Season 10, which was 2014.

    #50 1 year ago
    Quoted from ZoraShinoda:

    I don't think people realize that pawn stars clip/episode is from Season 10, which was 2014.

    Ha, good call. It was just uploaded yesterday, so I figured it was newer (plus Chumlee was thin). My bad.

    Well, this is where pinball pawn prices were in 2014!

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