Quoted from John_I:Problem is the supply chain problems are still here and getting worse if anything as long as gas prices keep going up.
Great, we have to wait for the Ukraine to push out Russia before pin prices move? Gonna be a long wait.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I'm buying a full size dedicated Vpin for the reasons I stated in the comments above. VR pinball just isn't for me and still seems inferior even with the best headsets compared to the full size dedicated vpins. Setting up base stations for sensors (as with the Valve Index), dealing with VR controllers, cables, and ultimately wearing the VR headset itself all still has that carnival ride vibe, something that's fun for just a few minutes.
IMO there is zero social interaction with VR pinball, no one wants to watch a screen with some ones head moving all over the place and then share a sweaty headset between balls lol. I'll happily pay $4k more for what I believe is the better experience. There's a reason you rarely, if ever, see Xtreme Gaming Cabinets advertising their VR Pinsim on YouTube, all coverage is for the full size dedicated cabinets. I reached out to them regarding their Pinsim and full size cabinets, Pinsim has a 1 month wait whereas the full size cabinets are 6+ months.
As far as moving around goes with VR pinball that seems cool but I don't even move around much with my real pins, except for when a ball is stuck and I'm trying to find it. Below is White Water running on a 49" 4K monitor, there's not much 2D about it, still 3D but just lacking being able to look under objects which I'm not sure how many people even do with real pinball.
[quoted image]
Big difference bw 3d and 2d. There is no depth in 2d. The white water you show looks nice but when you look around it’s flat and clearly fake. You can then play that same exact table but in 3d. VR gives you the same feel as you would get in real life Bc, well, real life isn’t 2d. Not sure what is complex about this. So your friend watches someone play a big tv in a box or they watch your pc monitor as the person plays 3d - not sure I follow the difference. I sure understand the difference though bw 3d and 2d. Now you need to ensure you have a good enough pc to actually play the vr version at 90fps but it can’t be beat.
Xtreme gaming doesn’t push vr Bc the margins on their normal virtual pinball tables are insane when people buy them. Majority have no idea how these things work, send whatever they ask and then they’re lost when the thing stops working. It’s a sad state of affairs and a complete rip off but hey - everyone can spend their money like they like.
Quoted from delt31:Big difference bw 3d and 2d. There is no depth in 2d.
I thought for a second you were referencing the new Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers.
Quoted from delt31:Big difference bw 3d and 2d. There is no depth in 2d. The white water you show looks nice but when you look around it’s flat and clearly fake. You can then play that same exact table but in 3d. VR gives you the same feel as you would get in real life Bc, well, real life isn’t 2d. Not sure what is complex about this. So your friend watches someone play a big tv in a box or they watch your pc monitor as the person plays 3d - not sure I follow the difference. I sure understand the difference though bw 3d and 2d. Now you need to ensure you have a good enough pc to actually play the vr version at 90fps but it can’t be beat.
Xtreme gaming doesn’t push vr Bc the margins on their normal virtual pinball tables are insane when people buy them. Majority have no idea how these things work, send whatever they ask and then they’re lost when the thing stops working. It’s a sad state of affairs and a complete rip off but hey - everyone can spend their money like they like.
I'm not looking around or standing to the sides while playing, never do while playing my real pins unless a ball is stuck. It sounds cool to lean over and look down the shooter lane but who does that with real pinball? lol. Also...VR is still fake as well, and much easier to tell it's fake when having to wear a headset. I'll take the slightly flat look, that still very much has a 3D effect, over wearing a headset with a small sweet spot, a FOV that isn't anywhere close to the actual eye, and having to look at fuzzy insert textures (happens when you look at insert text on a screen that is 1/2" away from your eyes). Not wearing a headset at all is far closer to the real world then having to wear one. People don't wear a headset while playing real pins...
If full 3D was that critical and popular we would all own 3D TV's, there would be a ton of 3D content, and we would be wearing 3D glasses with our friends and family to watch shows and sports. No one does that though as for a lot of people having to wear glasses, let alone a headset that completely blocks off the outside world, is a turn off, it doesn't work well for social situations, and it's not as immersive as the real world.
Not sure why we are bashing both of these back and forth, both are cool but real pinball is still better 
Also not sure why you keep saying the prebuilt full size cabinets are a rip off. Some are but there are some models that have a lot going into them not just in terms of hardware but also software. I priced out building my own with a replica quality cabinet, high end PC parts, DOF + SSF, shaker, etc. Price? Around $6k - $7k and that doesn't include configuring any of the tables or the 50+ hours it would take me just to build it. I'll happily spend $2k - $3k more for something that works out of the box with 1,000+ tables installed, I don't have the patience or the time to build and configure my own. The people that make their own are very talented, wish I could pull something like that off.
Here's a screenshot from YouTube of a new Iron Maiden vpin being worked on by VPin Workshop. Flat? No...looks damn good (thought it was the real pin at first) and has a 3D affect as with all of the best virtual tables.
Quoted from guitarded:Jake and the Fatman.
guitarded WOW what a pull, well done!
I have a full sized virtual pin I built myself, and for me the simpler pre-DMD games look and play brilliantly. I finally got multiball on a virtual Flight 2000 table the other day and it was super rewarding ... no NOT remotely as cool as the real thing, but absolutely fun to play. And when I am bored with one table I have 179 others to try (actually many more, but I stopped at 180 "favorites").
As for the actual thread topic ... overall I predict prices will continue to climb as more people jump into the hobby. Sincerely, Captain Obvious.
Quoted from freeplay3:I love how a bubble burst thread turned into obscure TV and movie detectives and virtual pinball debate.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lou-ferrigno-update
Watch Ted take over this thread so much I hadda change the title!
Quoted from delt31:Majority have no idea how these things work, send whatever they ask and then they’re lost when the thing stops working.
So you mean like real pinball machines!
Quoted from Mr68:Where's the love for Inspector Clouseau ?
Get "the party ' in aswell with all awesome stuff and quotes and it would smash.
Quoted from MtnFrost:Sherlock? Monk? What is the latest detective reference?
Why do you have to bring me into this?
The market does settle in the summer every year. It's ok with me but in all honestly, I stopped caring about new pinball and it's associated market a long time ago.
Quoted from snyper2099:The market does settle in the summer every year. It's ok with me but in all honestly, I stopped caring about new pinball and it's associated market a long time ago.
Same. Give me the classics. Personal preference, but I feel the latest pins are too much flash and clutter. Not a purist, but it is nice to see more of the playfield and not have videos you have to watch while playing.
Quoted from MtnFrost:I hate that show - ripping people off and being proud of it was never a good look. But never, ever use a television show as your pinball price metric.
They don't rip people off. People are trading extreme convenience for less money. The pawn shop guys are very clear the difference between what they are paying vs retail. They take the risk sitting on product when it doesn't move, have rent, and need to pay employees. Plus, people like to make a good living for their trouble.
Quoted from RyanStl:They don't rip people off.
The very business model of pawn shops is to get items for less then they are worth, in order to resell them at or above value. Pawn shops take advantage of desperate people needing money, and rip them off. They very much do, and the show idolizes this behavior as if it's good or normal to take advantage of people.
Quoted from Damonator:Greatest detectives of all time...
[quoted image]
Mystery's Five. I was an ardent watcher as a child - the first two seasons were the best! Pop quiz, and do not use the internet. What is Shaggy's real name? I'll give his initials as a hint: N.R. Bonus, what was Daphne's last name?
People don't exactly go to a Pawn Shop when they have the time, ability, and freedom to milk every last buck out of something they are selling; they do it when they need cash, now, quick, with as little friction as possible.
There must be a reason the industry exists and thrives; it's because there's a need/want for it. I don't begrudge these folks! It's a mostly-honest living. Sometimes you need money yesterday to pay the electric. Sometimes you need to hawk a bass because you really, really need some heroin. To each their own!
As for the TV shows, we all know it's completely scripted nonsense that has very little bearing on reality nor the actual pinball market.
Not that anybody needs to read this to know that, but here's a shocking expose on the world of pinball and reality TV! Prepare to rethink everything you know about life:
--------------------
rec.games.pinball
2010, 7:06:39 AM
I'm sure many of you have seen or at least heard
about the Bally Odds & Evens pinball that was
on the History Channel's Pawn Stars show recently.
(Could not find a YouTube video of this unfortunately.)
In case you haven't, basically it's a reality show
about a pawn shop in Las Vegas. A guy dragged
a 1973 Bally Odds & Evens to the pawn shop
(disassembled), and the pawn guys bought it
for $1000. Then they paid a guy $3000 to "restore" it.
At least that's how it was shown on the TV program.
Anyway, I was wondering why Tim Arnold (of the
Pinball Hall of Fame aka PHoF in Las Vegas) didn't
get the call for this.
But in fact, he did get the call. I talked to Tim
and he said: "The pawn shop called me and
asked if I would restore a game for them. I told
them I just didn't have time, and that was the
end of the conversation. I have NO idea this was
for the Pawn Stars show. I obviously would
have taken the free publicity for the PHoF, and
done the game restoration if I had known."
So who did get the call? Turns out the guy's
name is Micheal Scott. He's from California,
and within the last few years moved to Las
Vegas. Tim says he constantly runs ads in
the Las Vegas Craigslist for EM games and
doing repairs. And often you see him running
ads for plastics sets and parts on Mr.Pinball
classified.
I asked Tim about the show, and he had some
details. "Everything was scripted ahead, including
the pricing." I asked Arnold if Scott really got $3000
for basically a $200 'shop job' on the pinball game.
Tim says, "Again this was all scripted. Scott
knows what that game is really worth, and how
much his shop job would really cost. But the
TV producers feel things that are expensive
add more value to the story line. So the pricing
was dramatically inflated to reflect this."
So there ya have it. It's not reality, it's TV.
And higher priced items make for a better
story line. Sure we all know what the game
is worth, and how much the work done on
the machine should cost. But prices are
manipulated to give a more interesting show
for the general public. Reality shows are not
reality. And this is yet another in that
manipulation of reality.
My personal feeling on the show is if someone
called me, and asked me to inflate values
of an item and restoration cost of an item...
Well i would tell them to take a hike. (Present the
item correctly, or find someone else.) But the
intoxication of doing a national TV show and
the pressure from show producers, apparently
it was too much to refuse.
In the 10 years I've been in the hobby it seems that summer has always been when prices soften and games sit due to low demand. Demographically the guy who can afford a 10k pin is likely to be into other expensive summer hobbies like boating etc. I don't think what we are seeing is a major correction in the market but rather seasonality. But one can hope I guess
Quoted from CrazyLevi:People don't exactly go to a Pawn Shop when they have the time, ability, and freedom to milk every last buck out of something they are selling; they do it when they need cash, now, quick, with as little friction as possible.
There must be a reason the industry exists and thrives; it's because there's a need/want for it. I don't begrudge these folks! It's a mostly-honest living.
I should be clearer - yes, I agree there is a need and sometimes they can be a resource. But not the television show. And your post demonstrates exactly my initial point - you should never use the show as an accurate pricing guide for pins.
Quoted from mrm_4:I for one am excited about prices getting back to some what of a normalcy. I’ve been putting some money aside to pay for lessons!
[quoted image]
LOL. I really hope that is a joke, the sandwich part had be cracking up (with 3 deli meats!).
Quoted from PanzerFreak:LOL. I really hope that is a joke, the sandwich part had be cracking up (with 3 deli meats!).
Oh man you never saw this?!!
This is an old classic I’m just bringing back from the shadows.
Also who the F is Tom and Duane?!!!!!
Quoted from PanzerFreak:LOL. I really hope that is a joke, the sandwich part had be cracking up (with 3 deli meats!).
Shasta has to be a pinsider...
I'll cut you a deal on mine . $3499 and not a penny more 
Quoted from bayoubilly70:Is "Gold Ball" worth over $4k yet?
FWIW... I like Gold Ball. Don't knock nostalgia
Quoted from guitarded:He's not kidding. That bitch Lori is a LIAR!
He's just pissed she owns all the high scores on his machines.
Quoted from MtnFrost:Your wish...
[quoted image]
I thought this was a gif so I waited for a little bit.
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