(Topic ID: 185421)

Issue with PinBot flasher circuit when using LED replacement...

By MoSeS_1592

7 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by GRUMPY
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

I was trying to replace the incandescent flasher bulbs in my PinBot with LED's but I ran into a bit of a problem. Before I go any further I just want to clarify, and correct me if I am wrong, there are SIX flasher bulbs and THREE flasher circuits, each circuit powering TWO bulbs in PARALLEL (unlike Bally's three-in-serial). So whenever a flasher is activated during game play 2, 4, or all 6 flashers will always light at a time.

This is what happens when I attempt an LED replacement on one of the flasher circuits:

1) If both bulbs are incandescent, all works fine.

2) If one bulb (either one) is incandescent and the other is an LED, it works fine.

3) If on bulb base is empty with no bulb installed and the other bulb base has an LED, the LED is permanently lit (maybe slightly dimmer than when activated during gameplay).

4) If BOTH bulbs are LED, both LED's stay permanently lit just like in scenario 3 above.

It is the same for all three circuits, so I ended up having one LED and one incandescent in each circuit since this is the only way it would work. Is this normal or is there something I should suspect is wrong with my machine? I apologize if this has already been addressed in a previous thread.

#2 7 years ago

I left mine incandescent, but it is normal on system 11. There are warming resistors on the flasher circuits. These need to be cut on one end for led flashers to work. I've seen several mentions of this, should find one or a diagram if you do a search.

#3 7 years ago

It's been covered - cut the ground wire at the flasher circuit board and they will work fine. I was hesitant, but it works.

#4 7 years ago

Thank you!

#5 7 years ago

Also, there are 24V and 12V flashers on pinbot. If I recall -- the ones behind the face on the backbox are 24V as are the ones in the face on the playfield. You can use auto LEDs there as they are often 24V. Here is a link to a post for flashers I used in mine: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinbot-fans-and-owners-club/page/28#post-3522860

#6 7 years ago

The two eyes in the playfield are 28v. The ones in the backbox are 12v.

#7 7 years ago

This is a resistor board, the outside smaller resistors are the warming resistors which allows a small amount of current to flow thru the bulbs to make them light quicker like a flash. When using leds this small current is enough to light the bulb when they should be off. As others have said the resistors can be removed or the black wire on the board can be removed.

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#8 7 years ago

I removed the ground wires on the one I did, worked great and easily reversible if desired.

1 year later
#9 5 years ago

So glad I found this thread. Removing the 330ohm resistors works like a charm. Thanks!

2 years later
#10 2 years ago
Quoted from hayrebear:

So glad I found this thread. Removing the 330ohm resistors works like a charm. Thanks!

Yes it's been a while. I cut the warming resistors on the 3 boards under the playfield and some LEDs work but others still don't (they stay lit all the time). I see two more boards, one on backside of backbox door and two in backbox. Should I be cutting the warming resistors on these boards as well?

#11 2 years ago

Yes!

1 year later
#12 1 year ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

This is a resistor board, the outside smaller resistors are the warming resistors which allows a small amount of current to flow thru the bulbs to make them light quicker like a flash. When using leds this small current is enough to light the bulb when they should be off. As others have said the resistors can be removed or the black wire on the board can be removed.

[quoted image]

Hey @grumpy. We we just talking about this LED conversation on a different #High Speed thread, but I have a question about it within Pinbot. So, for the topper specifically, I cut the grounds on the resistor board (capping off the solo one, and joining the other two together). Odd things is that the two LED bulbs on both ends "flicker" (but work), and the others are fine. So...To combat the flickering, do you think it's best to now try removing the outside, smaller (330 Ohm, 7 Watt) wirewound resistors on that board? Just wanted to check first before cutting off any resistors. Thanks again!

#13 1 year ago

Your fine since you removed the ground wires. LEDs can flicker from voltage spikes. Most of the time the spikes are caused by open diodes on coils. When a coil fires a magnetic field collapses causing a high voltage spike, the diode shunts the spike to ground. If the spike isn't shunted to ground it can pulse different transistors in the game, since LEDs need very little power to work they may flicker.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Your fine since you removed the ground wires. LEDs can flicker from voltage spikes. Most of the time the spikes are caused by open diodes on coils. When a coil fires a magnetic field collapses causing a high voltage spike, the diode shunts the spike to ground. If the spike isn't shunted to ground it can pulse different transistors in the game, since LEDs need very little power to work they may flicker.

Okay, that makes sense, @grumpy. It does seem to flicker with coils (flippers) fire (and other spikes, but just slightly). Do you think that removing the wirewound resistors (the 330 Ohm, 7 Watt ones) on the board will eliminate that flickering, or is the flickering just something that is part of switching to LEDs on the Pinbot topper? Thanks again!

#15 1 year ago

Nothing to do with the resistors. If you think the flicker happens when flipping, then replace the diodes on the flipper coils.

6 months later
#16 1 year ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Nothing to do with the resistors. If you think the flicker happens when flipping, then replace the diodes on the flipper coils.

Hello...just replaced all my 89 (and 1261) flashers on pin bot but the playfiend flashers are flickering when one flipper is activated- so ur suggesting to replace that flipper's diode?

And can you kindly tell me where is the diode located exactly?

What happens to the diode that allows this to happen btw?

Thanks
Omar

8 months later
#17 6 months ago
Quoted from Cariba:

Hello...just replaced all my 89 (and 1261) flashers on pin bot but the playfiend flashers are flickering when one flipper is activated- so ur suggesting to replace that flipper's diode?
And can you kindly tell me where is the diode located exactly?
What happens to the diode that allows this to happen btw?
Thanks
Omar

Sorry for not seeing this sooner.
If you activate the flipper and you see one of the leds flicker then yes replace that flipper coil's diodes. Here is a pic of the correct stock coil for a Pinbot. It has a single diode across the outer lugs of the coil. The diode must be installed in the correct direction. The silver band faces the power wire.
Lastly when the diode ages it will usually go open from the high voltage spikes that come from the coil when de-energized and magnetic field collapses. The diode shunts this high voltage to ground so it wont cause any problems. If the diode opens the high voltage will travel back to the power supply and then to all the boards. This can cause damage to sensitive electronic components.
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1 week later
#18 6 months ago

Yes great for the feedback, I've been having to replace quite a few diodes on this pin, yeah the bad diodes can really do a number it seems. The last two were on the ramp enter (but also this diode was previously replaced several months back so not sure what's going on there, but I suspect it was because after replacing that diode I had the wires crossed/reversed for a while and was causing some fuses to blow, and possibly damaged the new diode I had previously put - I think I mentioned all this to you before) as well as a flipper coil diode I just recently replaced and drain switch diode - that was causing issues were it would not sense that the ball had drained), and the flipper diode replacement seems to have at least eliminated the flashers LEDs blinking when the flipper(s) were used, now looks' like the ball return coil on the drain trough may need that as well as the flashers blink when it is actuated.

#19 6 months ago
Quoted from Cariba:

Yes great for the feedback, I've been having to replace quite a few diodes on this pin, yeah the bad diodes can really do a number it seems. The last two were on the ramp enter (but also this diode was previously replaced several months back so not sure what's going on there, but I suspect it was because after replacing that diode I had the wires crossed/reversed for a while and was causing some fuses to blow, and possibly damaged the new diode I had previously put - I think I mentioned all this to you before) as well as a flipper coil diode I just recently replaced and drain switch diode - that was causing issues were it would not sense that the ball had drained), and the flipper diode replacement seems to have at least eliminated the flashers LEDs blinking when the flipper(s) were used, now looks' like the ball return coil on the drain trough may need that as well as the flashers blink when it is actuated.

When in doubt, replace it. 7 cents each wont break the bank.

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