(Topic ID: 164959)

Is your Stern ghosting / crazing / insert lifting / other ?

By flashinstinct

7 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 724 posts
  • 197 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Who-Dey
  • Topic is favorited by 29 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“I own a GB, GOT, SMVE, Other”

  • My SMVE playfield has issues 47 votes
    12%
  • My GOT playfield has issues 56 votes
    15%
  • My GB playfield has issues 126 votes
    33%
  • My SMVE playfield has no issues 20 votes
    5%
  • My GOT playfield has no issues 61 votes
    16%
  • My GB playfield has no issues 73 votes
    19%

(Multiple choice - 383 votes by 295 Pinsiders)

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There are 719 posts in this topic. You are on page 11 of 15.
#501 7 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

I will never buy a Stern game again.

Never say never.

I'm sure Stern will get this all sorted out eventually. It's undeniably a horrible mess right now, though.

#502 7 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

Caused by the ball striking the edge of the playfield. I think beveling that edge would prevent that damage

I guess we should start getting mantis or cliffy's for outholes now too... wonder if the plastic aprons are part of that shift. Too much rebound. We certainly get more lazarus balls with them.

#503 7 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

wonder if the plastic aprons are part of that shift. Too much rebound

All the New LE still has metal aprons and still have this issue.

#504 7 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I guess we should start getting mantis or cliffy's for outholes now too...

I sent Cliff an email earlier today to see if he has any interest in designing a protector for the outhole. Waiting to hear back.

#505 7 years ago

so how many of you lemon edition getting 2 balls ? mine does it very often, can anybody tell me if they had this issue and a fix? i have to say this is the worst 8k i ever spent in my life!! i think i am gonna take a hit and put it up for sale soon.

#506 7 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

so how many of you lemon edition getting 2 balls ? mine does it very often, can anybody tell me if they had this issue and a fix? i have to say this is the worst 8k i ever spent in my life!! i think i am gonna take a hit and put it up for sale soon.

Probably better off waiting and going through "the program" to get more of a return

#507 7 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

I sent Cliff an email earlier today to see if he has any interest in designing a protector for the outhole. Waiting to hear back.

I actually emailed Cliffy about this for my Met Pro about 2 months ago and he replied saying he was working on it because he needed it for his own metallica too.

Apparently figuring out how to make it mount with the ball trough there was complicating things.

#508 7 years ago

Surprised there hasn't been a hitler video yet

#509 7 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

so how many of you lemon edition getting 2 balls ? mine does it very often, can anybody tell me if they had this issue and a fix? i have to say this is the worst 8k i ever spent in my life!! i think i am gonna take a hit and put it up for sale soon.

reseat the connector on the trough optos fixed it on my metallica .

#511 7 years ago
Quoted from Fytr:

I actually emailed Cliffy about this for my Met Pro about 2 months ago and he replied saying he was working on it because he needed it for his own metallica too.

Apparently figuring out how to make it mount with the ball trough there was complicating things.

I got a response back from Cliff, and it pretty much echoes exactly what he told you. He is working on the protector. It's just a matter of finding the time to scan the playfields and come up with a good solution.

#512 7 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

I got a response back from Cliff, and it pretty much echoes exactly what he told you. He is working on the protector. It's just a matter of finding the time to scan the playfields and come up with a good solution.

I have bought a lot of Cliff's products. Great guy. But for the drain hole? Its not normally visible. I just put two or three mylar squares around the edges and seems to work great.

#513 7 years ago

Piece of drop dead foam should prevent the ball kickbacks under the apron.

#514 7 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

reseat the connector on the trough optos fixed it on my metallica .

i will try this and report back. thanks.

#515 7 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

Piece of drop dead foam should prevent the ball kickbacks under the apron.

Mylar and foam is what im going do. Cheap and easy. I normally wouldn't care but the recent issues seem to warrant it.

#516 7 years ago

Thin self adhesive felt for me. Easy and cheap. Pull it up later if you want

#517 7 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

I have bought a lot of Cliff's products. Great guy. But for the drain hole? Its not normally visible. I just put two or three mylar squares around the edges and seems to work great.

Yeah, what I ended up doing as well.

#518 7 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

i will try this and report back. thanks.

so my two ball issue was repaired I reseated the plug for optic as recommended. now my scolerri targets were acting up. I had to adjust the 2 drop targets by using the 2 screws under the coil and bending the bracket under the plastic target towards the playfield a little.

1 week later
#520 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Thin self adhesive felt for me. Easy and cheap. Pull it up later if you want

Where do you get this felt?

#521 7 years ago

My GoT pro which I bought last november. The top of the Targaryen insert just started to show a little bit of ghosting a few months ago. I don't know if the insert sank or it was just never level in the first place. The way the clear looks on the edge I assume it's always been like this.

Rob

vlcsnap-2016-09-06-17h49m12s364 (resized).jpgvlcsnap-2016-09-06-17h49m12s364 (resized).jpg

#522 7 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

My GoT pro which I bought last november. The top of the Targaryen insert just started to show a little bit of ghosting a few months ago. I don't know if the insert sank or it was just never level in the first place. The way the clear looks on the edge I assume it's always been like this.
Rob

My GoTLE is showing a similar tiny amount of ghosting, no sunken inserts thou.

20160817_192718 (resized).jpg20160817_192718 (resized).jpg

#523 7 years ago

Can't help wondering if a lot of these issues are caused by change in temperature and humidity exposure between clear coats.
I'm no painter. but I imagine temperature and humidity fluctutation's would play a big part.
1.How long the playfield sits after the last clear coat before the game starts assembly. You would like to think at least 2 weeks but who knows?
2. Are the Playfields supported fully during and after clear coating (.IE not sitting on 2 trestles)?

3. Are they under a temperature & humidity controlled environment?

You can afford to cut corners on just about everything on a Pinball Machine during manufacture EXCEPT the Playfield. I can't believe Stern would be silly enough to skimp on the only thing you can't afford to. Can you imagine how much it would cost them on a warranty claim to replace a playfield....OMFG.

#524 7 years ago

Today 3rd insert (light extra ball) started ghosting and the clear on the shooter lane is cracking, 300 games played...not happy

#525 7 years ago

Yeah my clear is chipped in shooter lane started noticing chipping in the center drain hole area now going to have to take more pics to send to distro

#526 7 years ago

Add me to list. Sold my 3 other used pins to purchase this guy. #359/500 and less than 30 plays. One site with ghosting and the insert is already recessed in with palpable ridge. Even bought the topper and side art inserts (aka a lot of money here). Such a shame to negatively impact an otherwise awesome game (when the ball stays on the field). Was really expecting better here. Hope this gets fixed but from the sounds of it nothing is really moving forward.

#527 7 years ago
Quoted from cmv040:

Add me to list. Sold my 3 other used pins to purchase this guy. #359/500 and less than 30 plays. One site with ghosting and the insert is already recessed in with palpable ridge. Even bought the topper and side art inserts (aka a lot of money here). Such a shame to negatively impact an otherwise awesome game (when the ball stays on the field). Was really expecting better here. Hope this gets fixed but from the sounds of it nothing is really moving forward.

Wow.......smfh! Sorry to hear this dude.

#528 7 years ago
Quoted from cmv040:

Add me to list. Sold my 3 other used pins to purchase this guy. #359/500 and less than 30 plays. One site with ghosting and the insert is already recessed in with palpable ridge. Even bought the topper and side art inserts (aka a lot of money here). Such a shame to negatively impact an otherwise awesome game (when the ball stays on the field). Was really expecting better here. Hope this gets fixed but from the sounds of it nothing is really moving forward.

What's is the playfiled date ?

#529 7 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

Where do you get this felt?

Hobby lobby. $1 a sheet

Keeps your ball eject area nice and protected as well

#530 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Hobby lobby. $1 a sheet
Keeps your ball eject area nice and protected as well

Do you have a pic of how you placed it in your lane?

#531 7 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

so how many of you lemon edition getting 2 balls ? mine does it very often, can anybody tell me if they had this issue and a fix? i have to say this is the worst 8k i ever spent in my life!! i think i am gonna take a hit and put it up for sale soon.

Had this a lot too on my Metallica, found out that the switch in the shooter lane was not adjusted properly, when the ball was launched from the through in the shooter lane the switch got activated for a second but then when the ball lies there, the switch was not activated anymore, so it launched another ball in there. After re-adjusting the switch it never happened again.

#532 7 years ago
Quoted from golfingdad1:

What's is the playfiled date ?

Sorry just got back from business trip. Aug 12 2016 is the date stamped on the end of the playfield

#533 7 years ago
Quoted from cmv040:

Sorry just got back from business trip. Aug 12 2016 is the date stamped on the end of the playfield

Good info here

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-there-any-problem-free-gbles-out-there#post-3355127

#534 7 years ago

This is from another thread
Quoted from oldpinguy

OLDPINGUY

Pinside member
 Winter Park, FL
4y 57k 5,031 23 7 0/1
Quoted from Hdmike444:
Who here has le's? If so what numbers and how is the ghosting?
It appears out of maybe 400 or so LEs shipped, by thread posts that about 50 or so LEs have serious playfield issues, with another 50 having 1-3 faint white lines at the edge, likely not enough for Stern to replace.
On Pros, as the first ones were released, only a handful.
So Somewhere between 50-100 issues, 25 or so extremely serious, 25 definete should be replaced, and another 50 that has minor, wouldnt notice unless you look close with game off.
Spiderman, GOT, has some too, but I havent watched those numbers.
These are my opinion only from posters and threads, and does not reflect the Poll or any numbers that can be substantiated.
I have seen only a couple new complaints, but Stern also hasnt been shipping out the Pile of Premiums and Pros owed to Distributors and Customers....so they are working on it, Im sure, and likely some head scratching, as how do you tell, when it leaves packed in a box, with no issues? Other than leaving it on the floor for 30 days, to see if changes for them.....

#535 7 years ago
Quoted from golfingdad1:

This is from another thread
Quoted from oldpinguy
OLDPINGUY
Pinside member
 Winter Park, FL
4y 57k 5,031 23 7 0/1
Quoted from Hdmike444:
Who here has le's? If so what numbers and how is the ghosting?
It appears out of maybe 400 or so LEs shipped, by thread posts that about 50 or so LEs have serious playfield issues, with another 50 having 1-3 faint white lines at the edge, likely not enough for Stern to replace.
On Pros, as the first ones were released, only a handful.
So Somewhere between 50-100 issues, 25 or so extremely serious, 25 definete should be replaced, and another 50 that has minor, wouldnt notice unless you look close with game off.
Spiderman, GOT, has some too, but I havent watched those numbers.
These are my opinion only from posters and threads, and does not reflect the Poll or any numbers that can be substantiated.
I have seen only a couple new complaints, but Stern also hasnt been shipping out the Pile of Premiums and Pros owed to Distributors and Customers....so they are working on it, Im sure, and likely some head scratching, as how do you tell, when it leaves packed in a box, with no issues? Other than leaving it on the floor for 30 days, to see if changes for them.....

Yeah I assume something will happen. I believe Stern are good folks with good intentions to set things right. They are probably still scratching theirs heads on how to find/fix this problem. This problem also affects a small number of games I would assume. My frustration stems from costs, as I assume mosts do. If you spent 10K on a new car the dealership would bend over backwards to fix things under warranty. I contacted stern and they got back to me but nothing else yet. I will keep you guys posted. I love this game though, I have every intention of keeping it, hopefully with a fix.

#536 7 years ago
Quoted from cmv040:

Yeah I assume something will happen. I believe Stern are good folks with good intentions to set things right. They are probably still scratching theirs heads on how to find/fix this problem. This problem also affects a small number of games I would assume. My frustration stems from costs, as I assume mosts do. If you spent 10K on a new car the dealership would bend over backwards to fix things under warranty. I contacted stern and they got back to me but nothing else yet. I will keep you guys posted. I love this game though, I have every intention of keeping it, hopefully with a fix.

Wrong, I'm afraid.

The problem is systematic, and I don't know why you believe they have good intentions or want to make things right when they knew this cheapening would have such results.

They're using cheap, soft, un-aged wood and don't appear to be allowing adequate drying and hardening time for the clear either. That and a host of other issues.

They're doing this because it's cheap and increases their margins. They're not going to go back to a much more expensive product which they previously used (which still would have been much cheaper than what's in JJP, HW and DP machines). So the problem isn't going to be fixed. There might be ways of making it less horrific, or the consequences appear less quickly, but it can't be 'fixed' without reverting to a more expensive product.

-2
#537 7 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Wrong, I'm afraid.
The problem is systematic, and I don't know why you believe they have good intentions or want to make things right when they knew this cheapening would have such results.
They're using cheap, soft, un-aged wood and don't appear to be allowing adequate drying and hardening time for the clear either. That and a host of other issues.
They're doing this because it's cheap and increases their margins. They're not going to go back to a much more expensive product which they previously used (which still would have been much cheaper than what's in JJP, HW and DP machines). So the problem isn't going to be fixed. There might be ways of making it less horrific, or the consequences appear less quickly, but it can't be 'fixed' without reverting to a more expensive product.

Nonsense. It cost them way more money to have to ship out new playfields than what they save. They will fix it 100%. They have to fix it to survive. It will not just be "less horrific".

You're a well known Stern basher. Time to give it a rest.

#538 7 years ago
Quoted from Air_Pinball:

Nonsense. It cost them way more money to have to ship out new playfields than what they save. They will fix it 100%. They have to fix it to survive. It will not just be "less horrific".
You're a well known Stern basher. Time to give it a rest.

LOL.

You jump in to defend the indefensible on their part at every opportunity.

I criticise the patently indefensible. I don't hate Stern per se - else I probably wouldn't have a Luci or ST Premium - but what they're doing at the moment is appalling, and that people are allowing them to get away with it is even worse.

They were supposedly working on a fix when production was mostly halted for nearly a month, resulting in their highest production month in 10 years in August, yet 2-3 months later they're still shipping games in exactly the same state.

The cause is due to what I specified. If you believe that they go back to using a higher quality of materials, you're living in dream land. Have they gone back on ANY of their other cost saving measures, despite frequent outcries? The answer is a resounding no.

-1
#539 7 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

LOL.
You jump in to defend the indefensible on their part at every opportunity.
I criticise the patently indefensible.
They were supposedly working on a fix when production was mostly halted for nearly a month, yet 2-3 months later they're still shipping games in exactly the same state.
The cause is due to what I specified. If you believe that they go back to using a higher quality of materials, you're living in dream land.

I said they would fix the problem 100%. You're making assumptions on the higher quality vs lower quality material.

We haven't seen the Premium runs yet, so you're being presumptuous.

Like I said, time to give it a rest. You continually regurgitate bile and negativity towards Stern, and it's just a broken record at this point.

#540 7 years ago
Quoted from Air_Pinball:

I said they would fix the problem 100%. You're making assumptions on the higher quality vs lower quality material.
We haven't seen the Premium runs yet, so you're being presumptuous.
Like I said, time to give it a rest. You continually regurgitate bile and negativity towards Stern, and it's just a broken record at this point.

I'm not making any assumptions about the wood. It's a fact. That's why the wood is very visibly different, that's why the durability is so low. It is an assumption regarding their clearcoating ... but an educated one.

So they're going to go back to better quality PFs for Premiums, replace all the LE PFs, and let the Pros continue with the current archetype?

Do you believe what you're typing? Not worth even talking to you.

-1
#541 7 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

I'm not making any assumptions about the wood. It's a fact. That's why the wood is very visibly different, that's why the durability is so low. It is an assumption regarding their clearcoating ... but an educated one.
So they're going to go back to better quality PFs for Premiums, replace all the LE PFs, and let the Pros continue with the current archetype?
Do you believe what you're typing? Not worth even talking to you.

I said they would fix the problem 100%, so that ghosting isn't an issue again. You keep putting other words in my mouth.

It is completely worthless speaking with you.

Now, where is that ignore button? Ah....there it is!

Cheerio, Gov'ner!

#542 7 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

I'm not making any assumptions about the wood. It's a fact. That's why the wood is very visibly different, that's why the durability is so low. It is an assumption regarding their clearcoating ... but an educated one.
So they're going to go back to better quality PFs for Premiums, replace all the LE PFs, and let the Pros continue with the current archetype?
Do you believe what you're typing? Not worth even talking to you.

We have a pro here on route with 1500++ on it . I unboxed it with the owner and it is perfect not one problem , a small chip in shooter lane that's it . It's been on route 4 months

#543 7 years ago

GBLE #404 Ghosting on insert. Playfield date 8/16/16

image (resized).jpegimage (resized).jpeg

image (resized).jpegimage (resized).jpeg

image (resized).jpegimage (resized).jpeg

#544 7 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

GBLE #404 Ghosting on insert. Playfield date 8/16/16

So mine is the same spot but larger and that corner is recessed. I also noticed that there are little dents (round) probably where air balls smack the field. Just seems that the clear is softer than it should be and that corner/insert is probably something they need to figure out. Clearly it won't fair well if I have ~30 plays and it's happening. Talked to stern about it?

#545 7 years ago
Quoted from golfingdad1:

We have a pro here on route with 1500++ on it . I unboxed it with the owner and it is perfect not one problem , a small chip in shooter lane that's it . It's been on route 4 months

There is a pro here in richmond at one of the bars. Don't know anything about date or how long it's been routed but it's got ghosting on I'd say 3-4 inserts.

#546 7 years ago

It's just crazy to me that August build date games have issues still. Those games were built well after Stern was fully aware of widespread problems, and they still built them and sent them out anyway. Either they're planning on being very strict about what they replace, or they've put their heads in the sand regarding how big the problem is and are just hoping that it'll magically fix itself.

#547 7 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

It's just crazy to me that August build date games have issues still. Those games were built well after Stern was fully aware of widespread problems, and they still built them and sent them out anyway. Either they're planning on being very strict about what they replace, or they've put their heads in the sand regarding how big the problem is and are just hoping that it'll magically fix itself.

The next firmware update will have a ghosting note to explain that it's "as designed." Worked for Game of Thrones orbit mess, right?

#548 7 years ago

Gb pro delivered yesterday, no ghosting, some crazing

#549 7 years ago

Wow all these issues stink, for sure.

I have 1 tiny corner on 1 insert, but don't consider that a big deal.

#550 7 years ago
Quoted from cmv040:

I also noticed that there are little dents (round) probably where air balls smack the field. Just seems that the clear is softer than it should be

This is normal on every machine ever made. DIMPLES ARE NORMAL

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