I am not a fan of music pins, but I think GNR would be in my collection for sure.
Quoted from rubberducks:
I think prices will have to come down when there's the next major global slowdown, financial crisis, or recession. The industry won't survive if they don't.
Stern will be in prime position on that, as their unit costs are obviously so low and margins so high. JJP really do need to dilute their costs and increase their purchasing power and economies of scale by building more games, both if they want to sell more and expand the market as the investors claimed, and if they want to remain viable when inevitable price cuts have to occur due to the economic cycle.
The industry's been riding a wave for the last 7 years or so. It will peter out soon enough.
And that economic slowdown has already begun. It's only downhill from here.
Whatever it is, I hope they announce something by february, as I and probably many others will have tax refunds (getting my own money back lol) to spend.
Quoted from arcadem:
That is bs to blame JJP for the impact of sales taxes voted in by your legislature. If you don't like sales taxes vote the people out who pass them but don't blame businesses that have to collect them. Or do you think that JJP should absorb them on your behalf????
If he can’t or won’t spend 10k on a pin he shouldn’t be chastised for that. Higher taxes cause us all to lose, is I think what his point was. Unfortunately the voting populace in this country is fine with continued voting for two sides of the same coin, moving us in the same direction ultimately. Until that changes, nothing else will.
Quoted from lurch:
The tax applies to you too! That said I cetrainly dont expect JJP to take a hit on my behalf. But I do expect them to find more ways of keeping prices down.
Yes we all lose. Certainly didnt expect that response though! Rough crowd I guess.
Sorry probably came off harsher than I intended
Quoted from arcademojo:
Just seen this on facebook. No real info though.
"Pat Lawler's new, Willy Wonka! discuss....( by Jersey Jack)"
Can you link to the Facebook post? I don’t see it on the JJP Facebook page anywhere. I don’t think this was posted by anyone official. I mean it’s just a pic of a poster advertisement of a local theater group putting on willy wonka.... Lawlor is also spelled with an o not an e.
Call me crazy, but I feel like the toy story pin is not happening. Disney tends to tighten up on licenses they have when there is something major going on with that license. With the opening of toy story land at disneyworld recently, and a new movie coming mid 2019, I feel like they would not have allowed the license use for this theme. I know people will be quick to jump at GOTG as an example of a movie release and pin of the same release in the same year (2017 movie and stern machine) but Marvel, while owned by Disney, is not necessarily controlled in the same manner.
I dunno that's my thought. Where did the toy story "rumor" come from anyways? How did it start?
Quoted from Jasontaps:
Serious question. Say Jack announced today Willy Wonka is next, how long would it be before the first one shipped? Would it even happen in 2019?
The thought is yes. Jack said he doesn’t want to announce games until they are nearly ready to ship. So announce game then start shipping within a month maybe?
On that note:
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and make the bet that toy story is not happening and is not in the works.
Quoted from adol75:
The plan is to release two games this year, they might reveal WiWo and keep Toy Story for later. Or they might reveal nothing and come with their current lineup which doesn't mean they are not working on anything by the way.
I know the plan is to release two games this year. My bet is that toy story is not happening at all and is a completely unfounded rumor.
Quoted from Thunderbird:
New TWIP confirms what I’ve been saying.
Pat is on WW (standard body) and will be revealed spring or most likely TPF. High anticipation for this game and with full assets, should be JJPs top table along with Dialed In, since it had full assets as well being an original table.
Eric is on TS (wide body) and will be revealed in the fall. Which makes sense he’s on TS, since he dealt with Disney on POTC and prefers wide body tables. Good fun since TS should be packed with none other than, (drum roll) lots of toys! Lol
GNR next year. Sure it will be good too, but do we need a second one already? Just like 2 POTCs? Really like that WW and TS have not been done by some other pinball company previously. Refreshing to have 2 new titles, not retreads from other companies, even though I know JJP does them better. (Would have been fun to have Batman and Munsters done by JJP for sure to see what packed features they’d have, although Sterns are nice.) Lol
I don't see toy story happening. Nobody has a reliable source on toy story. I think people are getting their hopes very high based upon some pretty unfounded rumors that have spread like wildfire.
At least one of these is not true. I think a lot of people have etched these rumors into stone based on no information or reliable source, and people are going to be upset when they realize and the pins are actually announced.
Quoted from branlon8:
Now I'm confused - I thought the purpose of this thread is to speculate with no reliable information
Speculate is fun, but some people have taken it quite far and preached it as gospel set in stone.
Quoted from Ballypinball:
what is a fact is JJP will send us all broke on buying JJP Games
This man speaks the truth. :p
Quoted from calfdemon:
I have been following along with these rumors here for a while. Just curious, because I have not seen much mention of it, has anyone heard anything about JJP coming out with Harry Potter anytime soon. I ask this because I know someone who was present when Jack bought the rights to Harry Potter from Warner Bros, and that was probably 2 years ago now. This is someone who is into into pinball in a major way and knows who Jersey Jack is. I trust this person 150% so I know that JJP hold the HP rights. Just have not heard anything about them using them on a pin yet. And with this happening about 2 years ago, I would think that someone would have heard something. Unless of course, something changed in the last 2 years and he doesn't have them anymore?
Anyway, just throwing that out to see what others have heard. I personally have no interest in HP, but will put a deposit down the day that Willy Wonka is announced!
I think sometimes people don't give enough credit to how close some of these things can be held in secret until much closer to a release date. An HP pin could be in the works, just as much as WW or TS could be. We truly don't know if any of these rumors are true until something concrete gets leaked, such as photos of an actual machine, or JJP announces the machine.
Well we do know one thing - someone at some point here will get to post big fat "i told you so's" hahahah. All in good fun of course.
Quoted from lurch:
wait..... i thought we ruled out HP like 5 pages ago. Who brought HP back into this conversation?
HP is just as likely as WW and TS. I haven't been able to find this "leaked email" about TS. But again, people have these set in stone and some are going to be surprised when one of those never happens. :p
Quoted from tacshose:
Pinside deleted the “leaked email” info that was put in a thread, but I saw it along with most of Pinside.
Ah wait I think I did read about that. It was same person/source that leaked DI right? That one at least then has some credibility. But then that means that the other one isn't happening. O.O
Quoted from calfdemon:
I brought HP back into it, although unintentionally. I didn't know I was bringing it back, because I did not see it really talked about previously... lol
I just brought it up to see what others may have heard about its positioning in the JJP lineup, not that I think it is one of the next couple coming out. And I only brought that up because I know for a fact that JJP holds the rights to HP and they acquired them about 2 years ago (or they did at least.. things may have changed since then). I personally know someone that was present when it happened at Warner Brothers Studios.
We're onto you. We know you're a mole for JJP. >.> :p
Speaking of demographics, on average, people in their 40s-50s also have more disposable income than people in their teens and 20s.
Quoted from PinLen83:
His enthusiasm did not appear to come off as “hey, I heard from some guy”, it sounded like he was 100% confident in what he was telling us.
Time will tell for sure.
Yea he is very convincing. I also think what he says about YBR makes sense. Not removing features, but if anything have an "improved" version of the features. A stripped down 250 run special edition makes zero sense from a business standpoint for JJP. But WW and TS both by Lawlor and both standard body sounds very exciting. I was very worried that TS would be missing a lot of IP/assets, but from the sound of this that may not be the case. And Eric designing GNR would be AWESOME. I am not a fan of band pins, but GNR is the one pin my wife and I would both be into.
Quoted from Tommy-dog:
Willy Wonka? I hope not. I would love to add a JJ game to my collection but they keep on adding kid theme games. Yes, I did like Wizard of Oz as a kid but as an adult I do not want the game. The same with the Hobbit.
Dialed In: I don't want a cell phone themed game. I like to disconnect from the cell phone distractions that I have all day when I play pinball.
Quoted from PlayPin:
New to this thread but very interested. Sorry I have to ask, who is Kaneda, what episode are you talking about, and what are the plans?
It's a guy who does a pinball podcast. No formal relation to JJP nor an official source of confirmed/verified info. So just like any of us with our thoughts/sources/etc, take with a grain of salt. The truth is out there! O.O
Quoted from Thunderbird:
Lack POTC assets? You mean almost no assets. The logo, title and one photo of actors. Almost no reason to buy table except great layout. That has killed sales for most. Like buying Batman without any show footage. It would not have sold many at all. POTC has no music, movie clips, etc. would have been better if themed as the Disneyland park ride only.
Has movie clips, entire game voiced by Gibbs, artwork, storylines. I’d hardly call that “no” assets.
Did you not know that it will take them into April to finish all outstanding POTC orders? They’ve had zero problems selling the game...
It’s kind of amazing how JJP hasn’t been able to make POTC fast enough to keep up with demand since production began, yet people claim the game is doing terrible lol. This is one of the best games ever created. The lack of main character movie clips and original score doesn’t change that. The music is perfect and could have just as well been used in the movies. If IP mattered for this pin, it would have been reflected in sales.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
The problem with the movie clips that are used in POTC is that they contain no actor video and no actor audio. There's a 125 main modes of this where you hit shots for the characters involved in a movie scene. For example you start a mode called say "The Sword" or something and are told to hit X amount of character shots. The clip played at the beginning of the mode is 3-5 seconds, shows a sword and nothing else. Does anyone remember what scene of what Pirates movie that was from? No. Are there any clips played advancing the scene as character shots are made? No, just callouts saying "Jack collected", "Elizabeth collected", etc. As a result all of the 125 main modes feel rather generic in my opinion and are nowhere near as engaging as the 30 book modes in The Hobbit that all feature licensed assets.
The Gibbs callouts are incredible but he's also the only voice you ever hear in a game for a pinball machine based off of 5 movies. The pick a Pirate character feature is great but sadly there's just a photo of each Pirate and no video / voice assets from each. Once you pick your character there's nothing to remind the player during gameplay that you are playing him or her due to a lack of licensed assets. The music in the game is perfect like you said, as is all of the sound work done by David Thiel.
Pirates is an excellent game but the lack of licensed assets hurt the draw to it for some people. There's a boat load of modes in Pirates but all, with exception to the 5 wizard modes (very cook
L) and the super wizard mode once it arrives, play very similar. Maybe the lack of licensed assets in the game is why the programming team chose to make the game more about stacking everything rather than playing modes on their own. As others have said for $10k licensed assets need to be there. JJP seems to know this now with reports of the Toy Story licensed being renegotiated to get more assets.
I never really get to see the movie clips when playing hobbit because my eyes are on the field not the lcd screen. So when collecting characters in POTC, the callout is enough, if there was a clip on screen I wouldn't see it because I'm watching the ball not the screen. And I remember almost all of the scenes that are shown when starting chapters. We are big fans of the movies and have seen them multiple times. Would it be better with audio/video from the movie? Sure, but it's also not a "complete miss" and the rest of the game more than makes up for it.
I am sure that there are some who have dismissed the game due to this, and in my opinion it's their loss. They are missing out on probably one of the greatest pins ever made. I myself was very hesitant, and had the exact same thought. In fact I had dismissed the game entirely and was looking at a hobbit or WOZ purchase. But then I got the chance to play POTC. And once I played it, and kept playing it, and kept playing it, I realized that the missing IP didn't matter. The game is just too good. So we bought one. The good news is, they have had zero problems selling the game, as I said, if the IP was an issue it's not showing in sales, since JJP can't make them fast enough.
I was a huge naysayer. I sounded exactly like the people here blabbering on about lack of IP, clips, etc. Until I played the pin at length. It's amazing.
I would say there is a very real chance that POTC will have production batches again. Unless they have problems sourcing parts or something.
Quoted from pinmister:
Is anyone concerned about JJP's longevity in the business? Are there enough pinheads willing to spend $8,000+ on a pinball machine to keep the doors open? My concern currently with JJP is if I were to buy a JJP POTC and have issues years down the road-would there still be support? Hell-I am concerned about Stern's spike components and future support or availability. I do not own a crystal ball-but I have had these thoughts.
Have you seen Aliens pinball? Only like 200 made, company and IP long gone. Yet people create boards, all sorts of crazy stuff just to support the pin. Even if JJP goes under tomorrow, the pin community would be here.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
I was talking to the Mrs. yesterday about pinball for way to long (she always loves that lol) and whether or not I should go for Pirates or wait for Willy Wonka. She said she would wait for Willy Wonka out of principle for JJP not including the original spinning disk mech and the opening / closing chest yet still keeping the price the same. Damn lol. It was hard to hear that argument again but I can see her point. I went back to some older Pirate gameplay videos and the entire game still just looks so much cooler with the original disk and chest mech. For nearly $10k I could stomach not having licensed actor audio / video assets due to the amount / variety of toys in the original Pirates prototype but after the mech changes it was and still is a sore point when considering purchasing the game. Who knows, maybe I'll still get one, on the fence at the moment about buying an LE or waiting for Wonka.
I can't see her point. The game is packed with toys and features. And the physical 3 disc was replaced with a single disc and something that probably cost more in development via coding. You won't care one bit about the 3 disc and closing chest when you play the game. Guaranteed. :p
Quoted from iceman44:
There seems to be a lot of out of the box issues with Potc with a lot of people. Looks mostly minor though.
I don’t think there are a high percent of affected machines at all. On forums these issues always seem worse and more widespread than they are. Look at the MBr thread and the decal issue. The way the thread was going you would have thought every machine was affected and CGC should stop production until fixed. That is until CGC posted that less than 1% were affected.
Quoted from JY64:
I think DI and POTC were not hits because of price not because of theme or toys it is that there are a limited number of buyers at $9500. without a cut in price JJP will never see a game hit 3500 or more in sales again. For those of you who are going to bring up the $8500 model look at the pinside owners JJP collectors do not want the $8500 model
I would disagree that POTC wasn't a hit. I think it's a huge hit. But, I guess that depends how you define hit. To me, the fact that JJP hasn't been able to keep up with POTC demand taking 4+ weeks to fulfill orders since they started shipping them, makes it a hit.
Quoted from delt31:
If Jack truly does stop production, this game is def not a hit and that's coming from someone that loves it. You don't stop making a hit and shifting focus elsewhere unless it's not making money. Very simple.
I do think that if production does stop, which is WAY early for this game, it will be a sleeper hit with a wild secondary market.
I disagree. Do you take the other pins you have that you want to release and just sit on them so you can continue making POTC for how long exactly?
Quoted from FlippinJB:
If I were Jersey Jack, I think I'd be making Pirates as long as I could sell them for. The development and initial tooling costs must add up to a fair whack, and I'd guess the idea is that you then enter 'cash cow' phase of product lifespan and shift as many as you can. How many lines does JJ have running? Could they continue to produce Pirates while beginning to stockpile their next game at the same time? I understand WOZ is re-entering production also. Sounds like a logistical 'challenge'.
All just guesswork and MHO, of course. I don't know how to run a pinball factory, clearly!
I think people are making the assumption that they'll never make POTC again. I feel this is really where the disagreement is. If you assume that JJP will continue to make POTC's on their 2nd line or in future "batches", then the decision makes a lot of sense.
Quoted from dts:
If they are sold out, why can I buy one today from so many distributors? Do you mean they built the entire number of LEs projected and they are in distributor warehouses where not sold? The entire run will sell out for sure, especially now that it is feeling more limited.
Very few distributors have them "on hand". But some may have orders that may not have a buyer tied to them that have yet to be fulfilled from JJP. If you don't find one in stock at a distributor you'll probably be waiting a few weeks to get one.
Quoted from jfh:
I don’t expect they will reveal Wonka at TPF but I think it would be a missed opportunity not to acknowledge it’s coming and do a preview.
I honestly believe there is no longer a benefit to the manufacturers playing their cards so close to the vest. Let everyone know what the short term release plans are going to be (planned order, not exact release dates) so ops and collectors can plan for which titles they will get. It could provide a competitive advantage by keeping cash on the sidelines that might otherwise go toward a competitor’s pin.
I can’t consider more than a game or two a year (for both money and space issues) and have to sell an established favorite to bring in a new game. If I know Toy Story is coming by early next year, Elvira 3 probably doesn’t get bought this fall.
I agree with this. If JJP announces the pin too close to shipping, they’ll lose potential sales because people will buy other pins instead of waiting for an announcement of which they have no idea when it’s coming. There is a balance. Personally I think they should give us 2-3 months between announcements and pre-ordering. Gives people time to save or sell a pin etc to make the purchase and place the order.
Especially given the cost of their pins.
Quoted from Zavadoza:
Kaminkow is reliable, he also didn't say they have HP. He's just teasing everyone by saying "you never know" and "I believe it will happen one day" just like he believed the Beatles would.
True. On the same hand if the IP was in JJPs hands, I don’t think he would have said what he did.
I have pics too, you will all be excited. But I have 11 reasons not to post them. But trust me!
Quoted from LTG:
Wayne is a large distributor for JJP.
He isn't bragging. More like giving a heads up.
LTG : )
So if you're saying he is a trusted source, then it confirms several rumors since he has posted details in this very thread that were supposed to be "secret". One of the biggest being that pat lawlor is working on toy story (also confirming that toy story is happening), and that none of the rumored pins are a widebody.
edit: and also that WOZ YBR and Wonka are happening/confirmed.
Quoted from DCFAN:
My point is that they need more sales and raising prices up that high will kill off the chances of at least two-thirds of potential buyers. I don't think manufacturers can rely on theme alone to get high volume sales because premium prices takes out a large portion of the buying community.
JJP needs a full-featured version at around $7200 like Stern to get decent volume sales. If they can't ever get their sales numbers up by pricing competitively with other manufacturers then I don't see them surviving. They simply have too much overhead to not necessitate increasing volume.
The problem with this statement though is that a "full featured" stern pin is sparse compared to JJP pins. JJP would have to strip half the mechs and toys to get to the level of a "full featured" stern pin.
Unpopular opinion: not a fan of wonka or toy story theme. Wouldn’t prevent me from buying either, but also not dying to see them either. Unless it’s the weirdo Johnny Depp wonka, we are weirdos who like that version a bit more than Wilder. :O
Even though we would love the Depp version, I agree the pinball should be the Wilder version for mass appeal.
Quoted from Vintage2:
How could anyone with an ounce of taste want the Depp version over the original
maybe 20 year olds?
We being my family? As for our personal taste or opinion, just because you disagree with it doesn’t mean you should be an ass and insult anyone who doesn’t like what you like.
Quoted from drfrightner:
Jersey Jack seems to do really well working with Warner Brothers... out of these titles what would you like to see them do? They have a great relationship with Warner no reason not to keep working with them.
Dumb and Dumber
Friday the 13th
National Lampoon Vacation Series
Big Bang Theory
Clash of the Titans
Ready Player One
Quoted from drfrightner:
One more post I wanted to put all my thoughts in different posts ... Gene Wilder vs Depp. This is a no brainer. The Depp movie made a ton more money obviously and was a good movie no doubt. However the movie was re-made because the original is a CLASSIC like Wizard of Oz. Disney actually made a WOZ prequel that was okay, but you don't hear anyone calling for a game based on that film.
The original film has the appeal and no game will ever be made based on the Depp version and it has nothing to do with Depp. It has everything to do with the original is a better movie period.
I can tell you exactly how many people would buy the game based on the remake ... ZERO!
People grew up on the original movie, just as they did with the original King Kong, WOZ and a list of other movies.
If you're target demo is 45-60 there is ONLY ONE OPTION the original.
Which is why I'm not a big fan of them doing Toy Story. I'm not sure how many males 45-60 would want a game based on Toy Story.
Love the films but I'm not excited about that theme personally. Going back to Warners I'd rather see Road Warrior/Mad Max or do a comedy sure thing but make it Caddyshack. "ITS IN THE HOLE"
Caddyshack would be one of the biggest selling pinballs anyone could make because so many people with 10k LOVE THAT MOVIE!
Make Caddyshack cheaper license tons of comedy superstars: Dangerfield, Murray, Chase, Knight and a cast that is perfect.
You make a lot of assumptions. One of them I think is way off though. I’d guess target ages are 35-54 since those age ranges makes the highest income in the US.
Quoted from drfrightner:
Someone should just do a poll ... DEPP WONKA or WILDER WONKA. I'm going to guess the results... 95 to 5 something like that in favor of Wilder. If you had a vote to the first 100.
Oh I guarantee the Wilder Wonka will be more popular, and I think it would be a mistake for them to do a DEPP wonka. That doesn't mean there aren't those of us out there that aren't depp/burton fans. The remake movie did very well.
I don’t get the constant raising of prices. I have the income to buy $11k pins but I won’t, because that’s too much for a pin (exception: Alien, due to rarity) I admit I almost bought a YBR but finally decided not to on principle. I won’t support this constant and unnecessary increase on prices.
JJP should be reducing costs as they hone their skill set across the board, getting better parts pricing, more efficient assembly, etc and so on. These reductions are natural for a business like that, but yet we are seeing prices continue to rise. If JJP has to raise prices to make a profit then they are doing something wrong OR someone is getting greedy (Does Jack still have majority share ownership?). I’m fine spending $9k-ish on a JJP pin, because it’s going to be loaded with stuff. (I bought POTC new and just ordered a WOZ NIB) But not $11k.
I will not be surprised if a Wonka standard is $9k-$10k. LE will be $10.5k+
Quoted from Yelobird:
Orrrr, as the original gobstoppers were actually jack shaped gobstoppers they probably assumed we would get the idea if they made them round. lol After watching Both movies last night I personally wouldn't care which move they used. My Guess is the original would be a Much lower cost license to pull as they already had issues with Johnny in Pirates.... I do like the music much better in the Tim Burton movie though.
You're probably right. It's a long shot oddball theory, and I'm sure I'm wrong. But hey it's a forum and every pinball nerd like me with an idea has to post it right?
Quoted from iloveplywood:
Do you have any other theories? I'd like to subscribe to the newsletter
Hey now - you have to pay a subscription fee for more of my theories. I could be like "the onion" of pinball newsletters!
Quoted from iloveplywood:
I'm just jealous because it sounds like you might be getting one. Unless it's the Depp version, then I'm not so jealous --- but happy for you
It was a good catch on the gobstoppers though. At the very least it's keeping a sliver of suspense alive.
Oh yes I have cash in hand ready to buy if it’s good. I’ll be at MGC for the reveal if it happens and will play it ASAP. I might try to stream the reveal from my phone if no one “professional “ is streaming it.
Quoted from dirtbag66:
Anyone wanna put $$$ on when this bad boy gets leaked? Pirates didn't get leaked until the day of the reveal at Expo. Wonder if they can actually keep this one sealed until the actual event...
There is probably some leaked information, but people who have heard/seen it are keeping their lips sealed so as to not ruin the surprise!
I don't disagree that you get more for the money. But pushing to the $10k mark before taxes/shipping is getting excessive.
Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:
Stop plopping down money on games sight unseen (or played)...
Not sure why you directed that at me? I've never bought a game before playing it...
Quoted from WyseGuy:
Gameplay wise, no. I think the LE has a guy on the jet bumpers than spins around, and mountains on the left side of the game. Maybe more, that’s all I know of.
It'll be interesting to see if JJP changes to gameplay differences between standard and LE or continues with what they have done previously where it's just cosmetic/lighting differences.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:
We've never seen that kind of thing on a JJP release, and people who have played and seen the game have likely signed and abidden by their NDAs.
I've heard some precious and tantalizing details but I'm simply not at liberty to share them!
I'm not under an NDA but not going to spoil what I've heard/seen either!
Quoted from KingPinGames:
Sounds like it's time for a new distributor that will take care of you...
I nominate zach at flip n out. I will post his personal cell number here if you want to text him at 305 am.
I already text Zach all times of the day and night. If he has two people texting him at 3am it’s going to take twice as long to respond. You tryin to encroach on my turf bro?
Let’s settle this the manly way, with a kiddie ride race at MGC.
Quoted from ktownhero:
Do we have any sense of what kind of compromises there will be with a standard edition?
Nothing that we have confirmation on. Some have thought it will have less mech or two, others have said it will only be cosmetic changes. Until the reveal I don't think we'll know for sure.
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