Oh if the theme fits it will.

Probably not.

Wayne is a large distributor for JJP.

He isn't bragging. More like giving a heads up.

LTG : )

I don't think any theme will sell much more than 2000 units at $10k or more.

I admit, I snorted reading this

So if you're saying he is a trusted source, then it confirms several rumors since he has posted details in this very thread that were supposed to be "secret". One of the biggest being that pat lawlor is working on toy story (also confirming that toy story is happening), and that none of the rumored pins are a widebody.

edit: and also that WOZ YBR and Wonka are happening/confirmed.

I don't know that he gave anything away but LTG is right. He is a big distributor, I have bought three games from him.

This has been known for ages, like more than 2 years!

It has been rumor for ages. But no confirmation from a direct reliable source until now apparently.

I love the theme, but scared of tasting the rainbow with the artwork/PF design.

How'd you feel about WOZ in that regard? Looking at some old clips and assets from this film, I'm not sure how subtle can occur. Kinda worries me...

?

wonk (resized).jpg

The theme of WOZ never bothered me and I defended the concept for a long time; but for me when it came out it was just too much. Maybe if it wasn't for the over the top colored light stuff it could pass but the entire package is is just so over the top I can't take it. For s a lot of people that's exactly what they love but for me it's too Farfalla2K

that's what I said at 7K! Then 7.5....8...etc. Obviously we'll have to wait and see though.

Just another ignorant remark from you. We all know you have a distaste for jjp whether it's their themes or their prices. Just move. It's really starting to get old.

My point is that they need more sales and raising prices up that high will kill off the chances of at least two-thirds of potential buyers. I don't think manufacturers can rely on theme alone to get high volume sales because premium prices takes out a large portion of the buying community.

JJP needs a full-featured version at around $7200 like Stern to get decent volume sales. If they can't ever get their sales numbers up by pricing competitively with other manufacturers then I don't see them surviving. They simply have too much overhead to not necessitate increasing volume.

I don't own WoZ but do want one. I wasn't in the hobby when WoZ was announced/released, but it seems to me that JJP wanted to make a big splash in the scene with WoZ. They wanted to show the pinball world what kinds of games they wanted to make and WoZ appeared to be a "we're the new kid on the block, and this is a taste of what you have to look forward to."

WoZ gameplay aside, I think JJP really showed their potential compared to what Stern was doing at the time. The large backbox screen, the toys, the RGB LEDs, etc. The rainbow effects were to highlight how RGB LEDs could make a playfield really turn into a piece of art, instead of just static inserts and one colored lamp illuminating it. (I'm pretty sure) you own a DI, and I think you can say that they've since reigned in their rainbow lights and playfield colors, but instead have created beautiful light shows with them. Funny too since you like to bag on JJP at every given chance

I bet you say the same thing about BMW'S, MBZ'S, AUDI'S, etc. There are quality focused buyers for just about everything and those are the kind of people that see the value in JJP'S games and are willing to pay for it. Those who don't buy Chevy's, Ford's, etc. and ......Stern's.

Even though a 7200 full featured game from JJP would be cool, I don't see it happening. That's not their target market. They are producing games for the higher end market. So 8500 plus is where they will stay for all versions. They are leaving the 5-7k games for Stern. Besides, the value is there by comparison. I don't think anyone can argue that JJP pins are not loaded with features compared to Stern games.

The problem with this statement though is that a "full featured" stern pin is sparse compared to JJP pins. JJP would have to strip half the mechs and toys to get to the level of a "full featured" stern pin.

I love the full featured JJP pins but I do wonder what a $6k JJP could look like. Maybe they could offer a pro, LE and CE version of their future games. If JJP could make a $6k pro level version of their future games with the same quality cabinet, build quality, and coding as they do today, just with less features, then I think they would take a huge bite out of Sterns marketshare.

However, I also know that JJP has wanted to avoid stripping down gameplay features across models. If they want to compete with Stern in the $6k pro level market they would be forced to offer multiple versions of games. Personally I hope they don't do this but I also want to see them around long term.

By most reports and rumors/speculation, JJP has been losing a lot of money. I guess they can continue with that business plan for a while longer, but how much longer? Also, carguments don't work here. JJP does not have an automated manufacturing process with many decades of reputation building and a wide range of buyers. Wonka will sell some by theme/name alone, but if they stay in the highest range of pricing without offering a competitive premium version (they call it a Standard version) then sales will still disappoint (just not as much as POTC) because Wonka is more beloved by more pinball people than POTC.

I don't want JJP to make pros. I would just like to see what they could do with the same exact pricing (Premium/LE/CE) as Stern while increasing their manufacturing speed and capacity to have a better chance at generating more revenue to head towards profitability.

POTC sales dropped because of 2 things: disc-gate and delayed production. Jack has said that he wants to announce then ship shortly after. This is where JJP needs to be in order to stay viable. I remember being on the POTC hype-train myself and my wife and I seriously considered, due to the successful announcement at Expo. But as the hype train dies, and then disc-gate on top of that, a lot of people cancelled their pre-orders.

If Jack can follow through and announce Wonka, then have games ready to ship within a few weeks, JJP will certainly increase their sales numbers.

Well I was so I don't need to be filled in on what it was like then

I think what they showed was how much monies they could get out of the pinball crowd, thus raising up the prices of the entire hobby. Of course they started "low," but they took a big financial hit for it. I think the only super positive that came out of the entire thing was forcing Stern into the bigger non dot display, which I was worried aboot and was completely wrong; it's fantastic.

I'm actually not really in to "light shows" that much, certina(t)ly not as much as everyone else; but color changing inserts were a totally awesome idea.
As you can read in my original post the combination of PF design (target/flipper etc colors) & the lights are what make it "too much" for me.

I bag/give credit on everyone equally. I know it's shocking because a lot of people the talk constantly here "choose" a side and piss and moan like a fucking child. WOZ is a game I never want to own, neither is Dominoes, or GB etc etc.
Itt's hard to seemed balanced when everyone is choosing a side. I had a node board die from Stern, and I had a board die in JJP; it's equal and I just state the facts.

No, KingPinGames is right, you bash JJP every chance you get. Why constantly bash and question everything they do?

Honestly I wonder if there's still some Stern loyalists out there that are pissed JJP came into existence and made games that feature at least double the number of features and code depth compared to Stern games. If that's the case they shouldn't be pissed at JJP but rather Stern for raising their prices, including less and lowering quality.

It's not uncommon for new business to start by loosing money. What matters is how the business can scale up, spread its R&D costs among multiple products, get better deals from suppliers through long term partnerships, reuse some mechs and streamline both new development and industrial production.

If they can achieve that and stay committed to their quality standard, then their price point is entirely consistent, they don't sell machine 5 times the price of their competitors, it's a thin price difference, and one that can be justified with the content they offer.

Not a "cargument". I guess you cannot understand the analogy I made about qualty and value in any product, be it a car or a pinball, in explaining both pricing and buying and how those factors in particular influence buyers decisions. Not a cargument. If those things are important to you, I'll hazard a guess you will find a way to buy JJP pins new or used. If not, there will always be a Stern available to you.

I wish facebook had this one, because it is the best one!

I heard an interview with Jack a few weeks ago. Jack made it clear that he has no intention to do the same thing as Stern. That doesn't mean what Stern doing is bad or what JJP is doing is better. It just means that they do different things.

Also, I don't see the point of the whole Stern vs JJP argument. I think both companies are a blessing for pinball and therefore good for all of us.

I really love Willy Wonka theme... one of my favorites.. this is one game I am looking forward to..the possibilties..oh the possibilities.. . makes me happy just thinking about it.

It is an awesome pinball theme for sure.

There is a fine line sometimes between success and failure.

I feel like Jack has made it his mission after 8 years to finally announce a game and then ship it shortly thereafter.

The fixed overhead expense clock NEVER stops turning.

JJP has a hard time now with QC because they need permanent line workers. They can't get there if they don't up the pace of games AND.....

Finally i think they have 3 blockbusters hits in a row on their hands, to go with Woz, and after that Harry Potter is the grand slam holy grail monster $$ maker.

They have great designers and coders.

Now you have some HOME RUN themes coming up that can turn a $7 million loss into a $7 million profit.

Toy Story yes ! Wonka No !

I heard a rumor that JJP has acquired The Matrix license. Anyone else hear this?

As long as th3y stick to the first movi3, I compl3t3ly approv3 of this machin3, but with th3ir backlog, what is this, a 2021/2022 r3l3ase?

I'd like to own a JJP game. Only thing that has held me back on adding one to my collection is price. I have always liked WOZ. Beautiful game.

I will bet Willie Wonka will be a great looking game too. Could have that lighting and art bang like WOZ, along with good game play too.

Jack has been saying this since hobbit. We will announce and ship. There will be X games on the line at the same time. I look at the actual actions, I need to see them actually ship quickly to believe them.

Not all upcoming titles will appeal to everyone, but at least one theme should appeal to most. With Matrix thrown into the mix, JJP has upped their cache’. With enough themes offered, I may one day own 5 JJP’s.

WOZ - yes

Hobbit - yes

Dialed In - no

POTC - yes

Wonka - yes

GNR - no

Toy Story - no

Matrix - yes

Unpopular opinion: not a fan of wonka or toy story theme. Wouldn’t prevent me from buying either, but also not dying to see them either. Unless it’s the weirdo Johnny Depp wonka, we are weirdos who like that version a bit more than Wilder. :O

You're even slower in the head than I thought. Well done.

That would kill it for me!

If their pricing goes higher than what it is now I won't buy. I would get a WW, but price increase wouldn't help.

Wouldn't they sell more by keeping the pricing where it's at or try to lower it 300 - 500 ?

Nice to get back to a happy vibe, in a thread with too many insults, arguments and soapboxes. No wonder your refreshing comment has so many upvotes.

He's been saying a lot of things. It's time to deliver. While i need to see it and there is a lot riding on it, i believe he will deliver this time!

Whoa!!! my exact pick as well.....scary...

Wilder or bust. Enough JJP Depp pins!