Licenses are usually 3 years. This can be 3 years after production starts or after execution of contract.

I know with Spooky they didn't want to stop making TNAs but ACNC will expire in 2020 so they *have to* get those out the door.

This thing with Pirates could be more about a ticking clock on next license (which I'm betting is Wonka) than Pirates itself.

WOZ has been relicensed probably at least 3 times. Failed stuff like TBL is probably more expired than the milk in a bachelor's fridge.

If I had to guess production numbers based only on a wet finger held high or my gut, I’d say 1,500 JJPOTC have sold. If the demand stays strong they should be able to announce a future model and sell another 1k. Wish screaminr and KingPinGames had some educated guess or incidentals stories to help guide us

I truly only know what I ordered. I can not even try to speculate on what the larger guys ordered.

Now that IS hilarious excellent job 10 out of 10

Wish I could help but unlike some people I don't assume to know what the numbers are can only go off what distributors say

No way they have made that many pins in the short time they have been shipping... id say by end of March they will have made around 1000 pins between all models.

Shit yeah.

Bashing family themes on pinside = guaranteed downvotes. Most of these dudes are so deep into the suburbs that they'll never find their way out.

That's where my mindset it at, production halting, isn't the same as ceasing. Aren't the Hobbit and WOZ prime examples of new models, with updates mind you, and future pins produced post initial production?

I'm really wondering.....where did all of this production ending talk even start? What source? Is it just naysaying based on not liking the game or actual informed insight?

From what I gather, this game was in preproduction for awhile, (I'd assume with contracts and design at least a year) actual production for six months so far, and user/owner response on this forum has been exceptionally good, to say the least. Given that, and the efforts to procure the license to begin with, why on Earth would JJP do a one time production and cease manufacturing?

Yes dude, suppose it is a great theme! Hoping jjp, pat and the team smash it.

Real shame what happened with HP and Alien. I've played it and there's a good game in there.

If the rumor of JJPOTC is true; would it be the shortest production of a modern pin? They only really started in what, August or September? And when it ends, March or April? So 6-8 months? Shame really considering it’s probably the best pin ever made.

Hopefully the license gets renewed and we see more built sooner than later.

Were I them, I'd have been pre-building a lot of JJPOTC's sub-assemblies while was waiting for the disk issue to be resolved.

You are comparing Spooky pins to JJP? Are we sure this didn’t have to do with licensing issues? It seems like a great game and they were selling up here in the NW. Another WOZ is going to sell better?!?

Exactly what I was going to say. My guess is the same thing. They have to keep their line moving so probably were assemblies the whole year they were set back. And who knows, maybe they finally got their act together on production.

I’m guessing this last run of only 250 YBR WOZ will be prices at the CE so they will make more cash then they would building the same JJPotc. I’m also guessing once this is done they bring POTC back.

I don't understand the drama about JJP not making pirates. It seems to me the smart thing for JJP to do is to limit supply by making smaller runs of more titles. Nothing like a limited supply to boost demand if you know you may not be able to get something ever or unless you wait a while for it.

If JJP is ready to start producing their next title, I'm sure the drama will subside quickly. If not, it explains the drama for folks considering this title. For folks who have already taken delivery, not sure it matters much.

Low supply + increasing demand + people refusing to sell because it’s so good == higher prices.

I do have a dog in that hunt as I will have a machine to sell at some point, so maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part but I do believe strongly this is the best pin I’ve ever played.

Hey, I'm nowhere near the suburbs

Price needs to come down on the next title too; you can get a MB LE which is truly limited and comes with everything including a kick ass topper for 8k. Let’s see what Jack does with WONKA but like I said his price needs to come down big time

we believe you.

365C6B4A-C553-4817-92D8-89E535E65768 (resized).jpeg

Very wishful thinking. Comparing it with MB LE is ridiculous. The R&D cost to develop an entirely new game is substantial. Pat Lawlor and team don't work for free.

As far as I can tell, JJP doesn't have a problem with it's current pricing...they build a premium product. The price reflects what you get. When I compare my DILE with IMDN Premium right next to it, the JJP product is obviously a "good value". You get what you pay for!

Don't remember this being posted?

https://gnrcentral.com/2018/08/10/guns-n-roses-releasing-pinball-machine/

"This is not true at all. for me personally, it has been our best selling JJP game to date."

So I hear you...I own the game and love it too. My logical brain doesn't believe you though. NO way does jjp cut the production on a game that is printing money. No way.

Heh ok I get it. Sorry.

That is a strange quote consider WOZ has apparently sold nearly or more than 5000 copies. Yeah I really believe that like I have a hole in my head because The Pinball Company recently did a seminar where they said their number 1 selling game of all time is WOZ. Adams Family is #2. Yes what you're saying has to be so accurate explain why a game that has been out for YEARS now is getting yet another version "Yellow Brick Road'. In the modern era of pinball you might never see another game as big as Wizard of Oz EVER!

WOZ is a game that has probably generated around 40 million in sales and you're making comments like that? Seriously! That is really hard to believe.

With all that being said and I stand behind what I said... Pirates was a theme that was already covered recently by Stern. The two licensed games by JJ where heavy on video assets, this is something they were KNOWN FOR! So why agree to make a game that was at the end of its popularity, with no agreement to use video assets plus it was already covered a few years prior. This is why I'm saying its a theme I wouldn't have made. I think I'm right about that.

At the end of the day there are so many other themes to tackle and spend 2 years developing. Now for some reason the game after only being produced for a few months is now ending. If it was one of the best selling games as you described it wouldn't be going anywhere.

There are many things working against the game... PRICE, NO VIDEO ASSETS, TIRED THEME, ALREADY COVERED.

NONE of that changes the fact its the best version of the two POTC... fact. Doesn't change the fact the game is awesome and probably the best pinball game ever made. I'm not in any way shape form or fashion ripping on the game, because the game is AWESOME!

If you're going to spend over a million dollars and multiple years developing a game make sure its the right theme.

The last two POTC movies tanked domestically ... the high point was 2006 On Dead Mans Chest with 423 million with ticket price inflation its actually 583 million domestically. Oddly enough Sterns version came out that same year in other words at the PEAK of popularity.

JJ version came out in 2018 ... no movies release that year but the prior year was Dead Men Tell no Tales gross the worst 172 million and with inflation now its at 174 million. To put that into perspective that is only about 40% of the peak. The previous Pirate movie came out in 2011 another downturn at 241 million with inflation its 270 million. To put that into perspective you double that movies inflation number its still less than HALF of the popularity of the peak when Stern released their version. You can take the last two movies and combine them and they don't gross domestically what Dead Mans Chest made.

The point is the series was dying off that's why i say it was a mistake to make that theme, when you don't get the video assets.

Again with ALL THAT BEING SAID POTC Pinball is AMAZING - AWESOME - GOAT. I'm NOT happy they're taking the game off the line, because I think they created the best pinball game ever. I'm merely saying some of the challenges are the points I'm making.

If licenses for movies aren't important to sales then why is every single game Stern produces a licensed game?

There are many pinball games that have been covered before which should get a REBOOT not a REMAKE... Adams Family, Indiana Jones, James Bond and themes yet to be done like Planet of the Apes, Mission Impossible, Fast and Furious, Harry Potter, Three Stooges, Universal Monster Theme, Jaws and many more. Not to mention many rock bands haven't been done such as LZ, Queen, Doors, Prince, MJ, Ozzy, M Crew, Beastie Boys, VH and more.

I think going forward any pinball company that makes a pinball game based on a movie should get video assets or move on but as I said doesn't apply to JJ Pirates because their graphics make up for it big league.

Anyway I will BUY ANY JJ game because in my view they're the BEST OF THE BEST! PERIOD!

But JJ needs to make money, they need to make more games and faster. They also need to figure out a way to get some more affordable games. I'm sure they get it all figured it out but please lets not compare WOZ to POTC.

Wrong again!

They are waiting for movie to release to have all the video asset to use. If they didn't it would be a stupid move.

Oddly enough, if the license to POTC is up then it may be the best thing that ever happened to JJP pinball.

Cut production short, preserve some value of your games on the secondary market so there will be MORE demand for NIB games.

Start finally releasing and shipping 2 games a year, great titles, and stop coming up with 10 different versions of Woz!

Wonka, then GNR, then Toy Story. JJP might have its best year ever since early Woz days

Why would JJP do that? Stern is charging $9k for LE's that are not built as well, have less mechs, and contain 1/3 of the code work on average.

Thus far, Stern has been able to get away with it because they have GREAT themes and are FUN to play. And because they were "limited" there was more demand than supply and people were buying and flipping them. The Stern LE should be around $7500 imo, but then its just giving up that profit to the flippers.

And they understand a little better what "LE" actually means. JJP has no clue how to create demand for their product. First thing is announce AND then release!

Making essentially unlimited "LE"'s by cranking out different versions is just going to ruin the secondary market for them.

I'm excited to see what Wonka is going to look like because its finally another theme i want.

JJP has a core group of buyers.

So the DI's and POTC's will get 1500 or so sales regardless of whether its the "GOAT". Put a great theme out there again, get your LE structure right and sales will double or triple.

Thank you for reading my post. I never said that potc was jjp's best selling title. I clearly stating it was our (kingpin games) best selling jjp title. At the end of the day, potc is a great title and has sold very well. We (kingpin games) wish that another run of potc will be coming, but our conversations with jjp have not lead us to believe that. I appreciate your enthusiasm and agree that woz will probably be one of the most produced pins for the "modern era."

Thanks for clarity, but I was assumed that you were implying that maybe you were a more recent distributor meaning you jumped into the JJ games late after the massive waves of WOZ. But I didn't want to say that one one or the other because I don't know. I've talked to a lot of distributors who don't carry JJ or just recently start selling JJ.

In the modern era I think WOZ is the #1 game of all time because it broke wide up the notion that you can't do something BIGGER with pinball. Like the game play or not this game will go down as one of if not the single most collectable games ever created.

I'm also very SAD they won't be making anymore POTC because its the greatest pinball game ever made. There has been a lot of crybabies about changes JJ made to the game prior to its official release. So what if they changed it from two disks to three, or they removed this or that... you know what the results of all that crying are?

Now JJ will never nor will any other company EVER release info about a game until its done. Maybe that is for the better but I actually think its not... car companies put out prototypes then change the final design. The buying public gets a chance to weigh in that is a good thing.

Either way very very sad about POTC because it really is the best game ever made in pinball.

And kudos to The Mod Couple because their mods only have made the game even better. No company has EVER created better mods for a single game than Mod Couple made for Pirates.

Hey the GOOD NEWS IS THIS... all the people who bought the game will cash in if they ever decide to sell. POTC will end up being the new Cactus Canyon or Big Bang Bar. Paid 9500 sold for 12,500.

Advice buy one NOW!

Larry

LOL

JD did a good job with the stream. Love the LCD and animations

The CE looks great

Agreed...was in on the CE until the 3rd disc thing....really anxious to see WW....

I'm still wondering where the sources are for stating it's this run, and done with POTC.

The Sources are located on the same shelf as BBQ and Tomato sauce are at your local Drug Store

"greatest pinball game ever made"? umm...

Didn't cry, just didn't buy it....was most certainly shown and preorder spots sold based on all the mechs...I wanted it....

Nice collection....see you have a MunstersLE in your collection...did you get yours yet...thoughts? I'm hoping to see mine this week..haven't seen any unboxings yet..(don't want to derail WW, just other pins being talked about..figured I'd ask)

Jack didn't say that they were done forever but he did say that production of JJPOTC will end in March:

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/january-2019-recap-interview-with-jack-guarnieri-jjp_140499
https://www.facebook.com/KnappArcade/posts/2264714777150317
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/this-week-in-pinball-february-11th-2019/

Couple things here... first off I do think POTC is the greatest pinball game ever. Show me one better? Combine everything now not just shots, but theming, graphics, sound, cabinet, special features, toys, programming, tell me one game better? There isn't one. This is the single best detailed game ever created, with the highest level of programming, anyone has ever seen. Pirates is the GOAT, and clearly Stern doesn't really care about ever creating a GOAT game, they care about making as much money as they can, and producing games as fast as they can. And you know what they do make money, everyone else is just trying to catch up right?

To me the 10 greatest pinball games when you take EVERYTHING into consideration from detail to shots and everything between.

1) POTC JJ
2) Dialed In JJ
3) Wizard of Oz JJ
4) Batman 66
5) Attack from Mars
6) ACDC
7) Tales from the Arabian Nights
8) White Water
9) Big Lebowski
10) Creature from the Black Lagoon

A couple others I would consider ... Scared Stiff, Monster Bash, Simpsons Pinball Part, Cirqus Voltaire, Big Bang Bar.

As for Munsters... no I haven't got it yet. I've already put down a 2k deposit for an LE. I own a bunch of escape rooms and haunted houses, and at each we have pinball games. At the haunted house I have everything horror so I bought Munsters for the haunt. See the picture below. I will say however I played the Munsters PRO and it was terrible. I would rate that game like a 5 or 6. I'm hoping I like the LE better with the lower playfield, but no matter I'm going to love the theme for the haunted house party room. With the lower playfield it looks pretty cool.

I'm a HUGE fan of the Monster Bash remake!

IMG_2530 (resized).jpg

IMG_2531 (resized).jpg

IMG_2532 (resized).jpg

IMG_2534 (resized).jpg

IMG_2535 (resized).jpg

IMG_2539 (resized).jpg

BTW I do believe Willy Wonka is the next game and I'm hoping to see it by the end of March. I will also state right now I would buy this game SIGHT UNSEEN for several reasons.

1) JJ is the best pinball company on the planet. They believe in innovation.

2) I like the theme of Willy Wonka and I like the movies.

3) Personally I think it will end up as WOZ sequel. In other words I think both those games will be going down the same lane.

Jersey Jack is awesome and I will always buy their games because they put a lot of effort and detail behind every game.

I have a pirates CE on order but I would keep my Hobbit LE if I had to choose .

Too bad Dr.Frightner could not find a place for a Hobbit in his top 10 list. Must be a 'theme' thing; not scary huh?
I like my THBA every bit as much as my POTC LE and my WOZRR. It is a really great game with great call outs and with all of the IP that is has, it is just plain fun, especially with the new code. It is a keeper for me but then, so are my other JJP's. Can't wait for what's next.

@ drfrightner - Do you like Jersey Jack games ? You seem a bit ambiguous on your endorsement.

and is it a fact that you kind of like Pirates ?

Nice -

by the way, your collection by theme in one place in the posted photos is very impressive !

Is anyone concerned about JJP's longevity in the business? Are there enough pinheads willing to spend $8,000+ on a pinball machine to keep the doors open? My concern currently with JJP is if I were to buy a JJP POTC and have issues years down the road-would there still be support? Hell-I am concerned about Stern's spike components and future support or availability. I do not own a crystal ball-but I have had these thoughts.

Sounds like you need a WoZ!

Have you seen Aliens pinball? Only like 200 made, company and IP long gone. Yet people create boards, all sorts of crazy stuff just to support the pin. Even if JJP goes under tomorrow, the pin community would be here.

Yes I have seen the hacks on Aliens and TBL-both are cringe worthy

Although the fact it is community supported prevents me from actually spending that kind of money for Alien pinball (I would always worry it's going to break, which it will - they all do), it's amazing those options even exist. I applaud the community for that.

Consider adding RZ to your monster/horror wishlist.

Not hacks...Simply finishing and supporting the effort...Much more " public" in this forum as there is no factory support.

I believe JJP has enough supporters ( myself being one) that the machines would always live. You'd be surprised how much feedback and support the community provides now..Just not as visible.

All machines break... definitely not a hobby that wants plug and play...Have to be willing to lift the hood...

I thought modern machines would be the most difficult, but have read a few EM threads...scared the crap out of me...500 billion switches just to get the bell to ring..hats off to all that come up w these amazing games

Taking everything into consideration there are so many missing assets on POTC for it to be considered GOAT.

GOAT for you maybe, but never by consensus!