Personally after having the LE in my home for the last 2 months I'd say no... The ridiculously tight GEM shot makes the game totally un-balanced... I fixed that on mine but even with that fixed, the game lacked the depth I was hoping it would have... and some of the 'modes' are really a joke... recoginiser mode, really... they may as well add a flipper mode... flip the left flipper to get the mode flashing, and the right flipper completes the mode... it would be just as challanging! The colour changing fibre optic ramps are excellent though, so if it's essential to have to have this in a game, then it's a must

Personally I think this was a design flaw... and on the game I had it was the 'U' target that was blocking the way... I moved it a bit and the game played 100% better!! I might post how I did it in another thread, but am scared of upsetting purists

Don't know if the issue is as bad on the Pro version...?? I was thinking that maybe they had to move the upper flipper a bit higher on the LE version to accomodate the DTs, that would mess it up like it is...

Bearing in mind how much you need to hit the GEM shot in the game, I doubt Stern actually wanted it to be this hard...To start GEM, to complete GEM and to complete Quorra, and the wizard mode... I don't know JD, but is the air-raid shot used as much as GEM is in Tron?

I've heard it said that the difficulty varies from game to game... manufacturing tolerences on the various factors that contribute to the ease of the shot sometimes stack to make it easier, and sometimes harder... If tolerences swing the ease of the shot, something's got to be wrong somewhere I recon...

I thought you were talking about the same game... my statement wasn't coming from your 'two different games' deal, but more a general statement based on the game you played could be very different from other games out there... but thanks for clarifying

Welcome back old thread

The proof of the pudding is in the eating:

Yes it IS a top 20 pin... just! Not as good a Funhouse though... apparently!! I'm not a big TRON fan myself due to the ruleset, but I'd take it over Funhouse anyday! (as you can see from my own personal ratings in the below screen-dump!).

TRON.JPG

Actually, looking at that I think I need to re-rate TRON because I have it lower that CFTBL, which is wrong... I do prefer TRON over creech! Or maybe it's Creech I need to re-rate

No, what I've pasted there is the official Pinside chart, so Pinside people have voted the pro to be better than the LE... I personally haven't rated the pro at all... which is why it says 'rate it' against the pro on the screen dump I posted...

The ratings on the right in the big grey numbers are Pinside ratings, the smaller grey numbers to the left of those are my personal ratings...

Just look at the pretty ramp lights and ball that spins like crazy and you will slowly understand... That's what I think the attraction is personally... Of course there are people who actually think the gameplay and ruleset are excellent, and that's excellent... but I think a lot of the love is from the theme and the light-show... and the crazy spinning ball

That could go a long way to explain why you didn't get the attraction then... an un-modded pro would lose a lot of what the attraction of this game mainly is

I get that this happens to some people, but it's not the case for everyone... that's why we all have difefrent tastes... I had TRON LE at home NIB, my first NIB pin ever in-fact... I wanted so much to love this pin, but it left me cold and had to go... at a loss... I don't regret buying it, in fact I'm very pleased I did because if I hadn't bought it I'd be wondering what the hell I'm missing with all the hype that's around on this game... at least I don't live in torment now and can relax with the firm knowledge that this game doesn't do it for me...

Personally I think it's waaaay better to revive threads than start new ones for several reasons:

1) You get to see how views change over a longer period of time.
2) You bring all opinions together.
3) You reduce the total number of threads floating about, which makes Pinside more concise.
4) There's a certain nostalgia trip in looking at old threads reminding you of the good ol' days

One thing that bugs me about this game is the distinct lack of information that the game feeds back to the player of what you have to do to get through modes... When I had mine, after around 100 or so games I decided to look to Pinball News to find out how to play it... I ended up writing down a table of what you had to do to start each mode, to finish each mode and to max the points on each mode... I then had that as a crib sheet next to the game... Of course after several 100 games you'll get to know what to do, but introduce the game to a friend and it's a pain having to try and explain... With TF, my next and 2nd NIB, totally different story... it's crystal clear what you have to do... turn brain off, hit flashing lights and play pinball!

The other gripe with Tron is that on first look it LOOKs like theres plenty of modes and therefore scope for plenty of depth... then you play it and see that quite often Flyn and Recogniser modes are completed with general flailing around... That's when I got the feeling that I'd been conned in a way... there's a false sense of depth with those inserts that are really 'nothing' modes... Stern could have added another insert for yet another mode: Flipper mode: press one flipper to start, and the other to complete... It would be ABOUT as challenging as Recogniser mode

Does the current code still allow you to start AND complete those two modes with 4 hits of the ball?

Then theres the tiny timer bars for the three TRON target initiated things... Double scoring, super pops and super spinner... yet for the most inportant timed mode: Zuse, there's no bar...

Then there's the Gem shot difficulty which I sincerely believe that Stern screwed up on... surely they wouldn't intentionally block that shot so much with the 'U' target that it can't be hit with normal speed balls around the right loop or from the plunger??

Very pretty lights on the ramps though, and that ball spins like crazy off the disk!

And interestingly, Funhouse is a couple of positions higher in the charts than TRON

I prefer TRON over Funouse anyday because FH is ugly and I find Rudy so f**ing annoying!!

Tron has the same basic layout as FH, sure... and Congo... but it also has something different from those games too, so I'm not sure it's fair to say the design was 'stolen' from FH... inspired by, maybe...

Same will be true of any game with similar flipper layout due to ball momentum... at higher speeds the ball has to be hit higher up the flipper to get to the same target... with TRON it's impossible to hit GEM above a certain 'not too high' ball speeds because the higher point you need to contact the ball means that the 'U' target interferes with the elevated ball path. With Rudy it's harder with faster balls, yes, but I'm not sure it becomes impossible during normal gameplay as GEM does.

They certainly succeeded on that one

Ahhh yes, the old race to 100 I've been buying a few 'flippers' recently, and once they're out of the way, I'll be back to a reasonable number... If another purchase oppertunity comes along in the meantime it may well tip me over the 100 mark and I can claim my victory

I've asked a few times on topics about Tron and never got an answer, so I'll see if asking the question directly gets a response:

Does the current code still allow you to complete Flynn and Recogniser 'modes' with just 4 shots (one for Flynn and 3 for recogniser) or has a code update made them a bit more challenging?

I found it almost insulting to the intelligence of the pinball playing public to have them as 'modes' as they were and just wondered if the clear admiration for the game is partly a result of that element being rectified?

Another thing that disappointed me about this game is that one of the selling points was 'the rules have changed', and with this I was expecting something really special in the rule set to make it something amazing... which is why I pulled the trigger on it NIB before these incredibly deep and strategical games sold out and became impossible to pry from the clutches of the owners... When I looked a bit deeper into what this meant after getting the game home (the last one the distributor had by the way), it turns out that recent Sterns prior to TRON had solid lights on the modes which were merely started, and when complete they blinked... but with TRON this was reversed... That is apparently what 'the rules have changed' actually meant... the way the lights on the modes work to show you what's complete and what's started!!

This and the false impression of depth from modes that are not actually modes is why I refer to this as the Paris Hilton of pinball... pretty, but false and shallow

I know it's not a popular view of this game, but if potential buyers are looking for an all round view of it, the other side of the coin should be exposed also...

I can certainly relate to this, and fully agree that a game doesn't have to be deep to be fun... I like BSD for example, and many other non-deep games... too deep for me is not great anyway... I think what bugged me with TRON is that it seemed to give the impression of at least having an intriguing strategy, what with the statement that 'the rules have changed' and with several mode lights, but scratch below the surface and you find that it's tricks and mirrors... I felt cheated to be honest...

I have to agree with this, I really can't believe that it was Stern's intent to force players into having to develop tricks of nudging the game to get the ball to come away from the ball guide, or bouncing it off other parts of the game, or having crazily difficult skill shots. I modified my game slightly to make GEM possible in normal pinball play methods (like simply shooting the ball at it), and it was a massive improvement... no longer did the game live in the shadow of this shot, but it's true colours were revealed, and it was way way batter to play... I could finally see the game as I believe it was intended, but the lack of strategy and depth made it not worth the money the game was commanding to hang onto it... Sure, if the game was around the $2k mark I'd have probably kept it, but it just wasn't giving me $8k's worth of pleasure.

Wow, the code must have moved on a bit then... when I had mine I'm sure the recogniser targets all acted as one big target... Or maybe I just never noticed them acting independantly... I always seem to remember the target bank coming down after three shots... It was at least 6 months ago though...

This just started the mode on mine... to complete it I had to then hit the roving 'Flynn' target. I would very often start Flynn this way by going for the arcade scoop skill shot and missing it, which would accidentally start Flynn...

I respect your opinion, I'm just saying how it felt to me... I would very often see these modes complete without any clue as to how I completed them... i.e. with zero effort or even knowledge of even trying for them... that just felt too easy and I personally felt that the inserts were a way to give a false impression of depth... I can see what you're saying though about Stern wanting to give a novice the feeling of progress by getting these light's lit, and it's good marketing for sure.

Perfect Marcus, and thanks for taking your time to reply with such detail, and yoru opinions are greatly welcome too!

It could use some polishing though, when you play CLU, it says, "that was impressive" regardless
of how you fare on the mode, as an example.

I was thinking of this last night as another thing that really bugs me about it... I hate being complimented irrespective of how crap I do... You start Clu, loose the ball immediately and you get complimented... it just makes me think in my head: ' What do you mean 'that was impressive', NO, it was total crap... I'm playing like shit, can't you see that!! What was impressive, what what???' And it just adds to the whole false and shallow feeling I got from it... Paris Hilton comes to mind yet again

I suppose this also appeals to the 'novice' as was mentioned...

The 'The rules have changed' came from reading Pinball News, here is the part where I got it from:

The_rules_have_changed.JPG

My TRON memory is a bit wonky too, so my 'three hits' recolection is definitely flakey

No, because it says exactly the same thing if you actually complete all the CLU shots... or half, or one, or all except one... or none... it's totally dis-conencted to how you perform and therefore meaningless and, to me at least, annoying...

Does Stane say 'well that worked out well' when you also succeed in Monger Multiball?

Really... I see... That does change things... I'm not sure how the player messing his ball up makes Clu impressive though I'm sure I heard the same quote when I beat Clu...

I'm not sure how worked up you think I am... I don't feel worked up much at all... I'm just saying that the use of that slogan was one of the things that made me pull the trigger because I thought it meant something more than just changing the way the inserts blinked... I thought it meant there was a radical change in strategic gameplay... It wasn't like it was the only reason I bought the game, it was just another let-down... I didn't get worked up about it, just a bit dissapointed, that's all...

It 'seems' like you're getting worked up over me expressing my dissapointment

I actually only mentioned it once... then someone asked where I got that quote from, so I tried to remember and realised it was while reading Pinball News... I looked there to see if my memory was correct, and found it... so I pasted that page to answer another poster's question... And then you brought it up again... As you say, no biggie...

I got married to this game, had my honeymoon period, and then got divorced... Who knows, I may go out with her again, the enthusiasm in this topic is certainly making me think that maybe I was too cinical of the game... maybe I expected too much, like going to see a film that was hyped too much by fans...

My 'other view' comments on here are not due to a feeling of hate towards the game, but I just want to let other people see sides of the game that fans may overlook... to give a more 'rounded' view...

Stern could have ballanced that spinning disk a bit better too so it's not as LOUD... My game was in my lounge and I had to turn the disk off after a while because my partner couldn't hear the news on TV and was giving me grief!! She would turn the TV up so loud that the neighbours would start banging on the ceiling!

I'm really looking forward to getting the house and gamesroom finished so I can move out of this crappy temporary accomodation... Flats with neighbours above and below are not pinball friendly, especially with Tron's disk!

My comment about feeling cheated was based on realising that the number of inserts in the playfield was, in my view, showing the game to be more complex than it really was, as I stated a few posts back... I also remember hearing the phrase 'the rules have changed' somewhere else prior to buying it, maybe it was on the flyer, I can't remember... this added to my expectations that the game would be something exceptional from a strategic play point of view...

After I got the game home and had around 100 games I then referred to Pinball News (I don't like to look there to see how to play a game normally because part of the fun is figuring it out, but with TRON I felt I needed help) to look for guidance of how to play it, which is where I saw what 'the rules have changed' really meant...

I clealry had expectations that were too high for the games depth/strategy...

And now I've gone and mentioned 'the rules have changed' again... I must be OCD on this one

I see your point.... but.... even if you read something that puts the game down, you never really know if the game will click with you personally or not... You have to try it for yourself I think to really find out if the game is for you... There were seveal factors involved that made me buy this, and probably the most important one was that if I don't like it, I probably will have no trouble selling it on sice it had a massive following before it even left the factory...

There's not a lot on how to play the game for a reason

Seriously though, if you really want to know how to play the game, the best place to look is the 'in depth game review' on Pinball News (the 2nd review gives game play). This is where I got the info to draw my 'how to get through modes' chart... If I still had that chart I could post it up here... It was a good 'go to' tool for understanding the game of how to start and finish modes...

Well, you know what they say... sex with your ex is the best sex there is... Anyone got a TRON for sale near Prague

I NEVER started Flynn with a shot, it was always a failed skill shot to the arcade scoop that started Flynn when I played... It only therefore needed one actual flipper shot to start and complete...