(Topic ID: 237468)

Is there any downside to playfield protectors?


By beefzap

4 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 286 posts
  • 87 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by durgee7
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Is there any downside to playfield protectors?”

    • No Downside, a good investment 44 votes
      42%
    • No way, not needed to protect damage and might affect play 51 votes
      49%
    • No Opinion 10 votes
      10%

    (105 votes)

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    There are 286 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 6.
    #251 59 days ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    The conversation about the “wet spots” or newton rings has me really interested in a solution. protectors is there anything we can do to solve that? The concept of dusting the underside seems logical, but I wouldn’t want to put some kind of powder all over my machine.

    I only see them when the game is off (BM66). They are not noticeable when the playfield lights are on at all on my machine. So no big deal to me.

    #252 59 days ago

    Interesting. My Cirqus Voltaire doesn’t show them, but my Total Nuclear almost looks like I put water on the playfield.

    #253 58 days ago

    I think it might actually have to do with the fact that on a new playfield the surface is flat and the large contact areas have the issue. On older playfields with dimples the protector is contacting the small "ridges" between dimples. Could be horseshit, just a theory since some people don't have this issue with NIB games. I did remove the protector from my IMDN, cleaned and dried both the playfield and protector bottom (dragged tissue paper across both to make sure there was no moisture) after 15 minutes of reapplying the rings began to reappear.

    #254 58 days ago

    I sort of noticed that too at an arcade I was at that had all games done. Older games weren't as noticeable.

    #255 58 days ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    *sigh* Yes I understand that, that was kind of the point. Even with that many games you wouldn't hurt a PF. If you want to see chipping holes after 1 day check in the Dialed In thread.
    EDIT: Although I didn't put one on mine

    The jjp pirates is the same. So many chipped clearcoat on playfields from them, and over 10k. Heard all they offered was stickers to cover up the damage. At least Stern offered customers new populated playfields with the Ghostbuster playfield issues.

    #256 56 days ago

    if i do PF touch ups by hand with acrylic paint, will it be ok to put a PF protector down? i'm worried that the protector will move around and grind down the touch up paint.

    #257 56 days ago
    Quoted from TwoHeartedMale:

    if i do PF touch ups by hand with acrylic paint, will it be ok to put a PF protector down? i'm worried that the protector will move around and grind down the touch up paint.

    I can’t say for certain, but I would say there is a very low probability of it scratching at the paint. I would say you have a better chance of the PET-G having a chemistry issue with the acrylic. Even that seems unlikely.

    #258 56 days ago

    There wont be any issue at all. When I had Flash, I touched up quite a bit of the playfield before putting the protector down. Had it for several years and hundreds of plays. When I sold it, the playfield and touch ups looked just like they did when I put the protector on 3 years prior. The playfield protectors do not move at all if they are fit correctly.

    #259 56 days ago
    Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

    The jjp pirates is the same. So many chipped clearcoat on playfields from them, and over 10k. Heard all they offered was stickers to cover up the damage. At least Stern offered customers new populated playfields with the Ghostbuster playfield issues.

    Nothing has been offered by jjp. They made stickers for WoZ. We're waiting for jjp to respond.

    #260 55 days ago
    Quoted from harryhoudini:

    Nothing has been offered by jjp. They made stickers for WoZ. We're waiting for jjp to respond.

    On WOZ the didn't even think to put mylar in the pop bumpers and they got eaten up. That was a terrible rookie mistake thinking their clear coat was somehow superior. All playfields need mylar in the pops. As for the problems with pirates, a playfield protector would not help at all. Playfield protectors are cut around the posts, so provide no protection for the area under the posts that are chipping in JJP POTC. This appears to be a combination of super cheap/defective posts that are sharp around the edges and possibly clear that is not properly cured.

    Just to amplify a point that I tried to make earlier in this thread, I see the question of whether to use playfield protectors as two separate questions: 1) are they worthwhile on modern games that have factory clearcoat (1990+) and 2) are they worthwhile on older game with no clear, cupped inserts and other rough rolling spots on the playfield?

    I have a collection that is equally split between newer and older games. I've never even considered putting a playfield protector on my Metallica, Star Wars or the NIB BK I just got, but I consider them a god send for my older games. My Paragon looks and plays amazing with the playfield protector. I'm just finishing up on a Joker Poker and can't wait to play it with a protector covering the cupped inserts!

    So to me, I see no reason to put these on newer games, but I do understand people putting it on an NIB game to try and prevent dimpling. On the other hand anyone who answered this poll as "No way, not needed to protect damage and might affect play", was hopefully not talking about older games!

    #261 55 days ago

    I got a #STTNG, which was quite mylared and the Mylar was bubbled.

    It impacted the ball slightly in the upper playfield because there were different pieces applied, partially overlapping and sometimes the ball was redirected or hopping over the edge.

    I pulled it with heat, which went very well. When removed I think I found the main reason for it - a few scratches around the flippers and the right orbit.

    At the moment I would like to play it and not spend a lot of time in a restoration (thorough, cleaning also of subways etc., replacing all rubbers, rebuild of flippers and other work were done), so I also tried a protector.

    I am positively surprised. It fits perfectly, no adjustments were needed, it is hold down tight by the ramp flaps and looks great on the art and hides the few playfield issues quite well. There is no rippling or rainbow effect.

    Gameplay is much better than with the Mylar and I don’t notice any big differences compared to my AFMr (unless the latter is freshly waxed, then it is a bit faster).

    I don’t think that the analogy with the plastic wrapped couches is fair, but it could also be me, who just doesn’t notice the nuances (I do recognize the difference on a plastic wrapped sofa though).

    So my personal vote is on “good solution under certain circumstances”. It is probably not the purist thing to do and might not work for everybody, but it does the job for me for now. It is easily reversible and looks quite good in my eyes. I can still clear coat later when I have more time and patience...

    #262 55 days ago

    Thanks for posting that. I'm still debating if I spend the time to clear my TOM playfield after installing the decals or if I just put the protector on it. On one hand, it's almost completely stripped now so clearing won't be that hard to get setup. On the other hand.. I don't really want to I just did my JP playfield and it's a decent amount of work.

    #263 52 days ago

    You are welcome.

    For me it was a small risk to take - just try it and if it doesn't work, I can still adjust. I wasted money in worse ways...

    Guess it depends on your patience.
    I haven't got any for now. Maybe I'll reconsider in 2 or 5 years, when I played the heck out of the STTNG.

    If I compare it to Mylar it is a simple decision for me - so far, no idea how it will be in 2, 5 or 10 years.

    #264 52 days ago
    Quoted from wawa777:

    You are welcome.
    For me it was a small risk to take - just try it and if it doesn't work, I can still adjust. I wasted money in worse ways...
    Guess it depends on your patience.
    I haven't got any for now. Maybe I'll reconsider in 2 or 5 years, when I played the heck out of the STTNG.
    If I compare it to Mylar it is a simple decision for me - so far, no idea how it will be in 2, 5 or 10 years.

    The guys over in the restoration thread and in the SprayMax thread are enablers, lol.. they are getting me interested in clearing now. Apparently I can do it with all of the under playfield stuff on. I'm going to see what it will take, in terms of work. I still am doing the decal work on it now so I have some time to consider. Still have to put my JP back together since the playfield is all done now. I like the ease of the protector but I'm anal as fuck so I feel like I'd just take it apart soon to clear it.

    #265 50 days ago
    Quoted from harryhoudini:

    The guys over in the restoration thread and in the SprayMax thread are enablers, lol.. they are getting me interested in clearing now. Apparently I can do it with all of the under playfield stuff on. I'm going to see what it will take, in terms of work. I still am doing the decal work on it now so I have some time to consider. Still have to put my JP back together since the playfield is all done now. I like the ease of the protector but I'm anal as fuck so I feel like I'd just take it apart soon to clear it.

    Definitely clear then... I’d guess that the edge of the protector around the slings will drive you crazy - all on its own.

    #266 50 days ago
    Quoted from wawa777:

    Definitely clear then... I’d guess that the edge of the protector around the slings will drive you crazy - all on its own.

    This was one of my concerns but at the benefit of protecting my fixes and the playfield in general I was willing to live with it until I got a repro. But now that I'm *this* close to being able to spray it instead I figure that might save me from wanting a repro.

    3 weeks later
    #267 23 days ago
    Quoted from spinal:

    I’ve played a few games on pins with protectors... totally changes the way the ball rolls since the surface is different (plastic is much harder and slippery so ball can slide more often than roll). In other words, the ball with spin and roll differently..

    What if you wax it?

    #268 23 days ago
    Quoted from harryhoudini:

    Yeah, either way I'm using the protector so moot point for me but if there is a way to resolve that would be nice.

    Wouldn"t it be plausible softwaxing the playfield and then put on the protector making the whole playfield a wetspot?

    #269 23 days ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    Wouldn"t it be plausible softwaxing the playfield and then put on the protector making the whole playfield a wetspot?

    I could see that.

    Now I'm NOT definitely putting down the protector, lol. I need to do some clear work before I can even do my repair so I think I'm just going to clear the whole thing. I just did my JP and had no real issues. So, yeah... protector for sale, I guess.

    #270 22 days ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    Wouldn"t it be plausible softwaxing the playfield and then put on the protector making the whole playfield a wetspot?

    Na, it has something to do with the silicon, cleaner or something in the clear coat that spreads on the playfield from the factory.
    I've found that when I clean the crap out of it with Naptha there are less "wet spots", but they still exist.
    If you wait a few months and clean it regular, there will be almost no "wet spots".
    If you can wait or you don't care about dimples this is an option. I personally don't mind dimples, my reasons for installing are a bit different.

    I didn't bother putting naptha on the last few and got some "wet spots" on the munsters lower playfield window. Which I've never seen before.

    #271 22 days ago

    The wet spots seem to be uniquely on the new, thinner models of the pf protectors. I have the spots on BKSOR, MBR, and JJP POTC, but none on the thicker models before those that I have on DI, IJ, older games.

    I suppose it could be clear coat changes across three manufacturers, but it seems more likely that the Mirco protectors are causing the effect, right?

    #272 22 days ago
    Quoted from DANGERTERROR:

    The wet spots seem to be uniquely on the new, thinner models of the pf protectors. I have the spots on BKSOR, MBR, and JJP POTC, but none on the thicker models before those that I have on DI, IJ, older games.
    I suppose it could be clear coat changes across three manufacturers, but it seems more likely that the Mirco protectors are causing the effect, right?

    Simply a reflective interference pattern.

    2 weeks later
    #273 2 days ago

    I wanted to post an update to my custom made protector for Gottlieb Amazing Spider-Man. I'm not convinced it's working out for this particular playfield. I bet a lot of the crap showing up is bits of old paint breaking off. I may need to clear coat this one.

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    #274 2 days ago
    Quoted from DANGERTERROR:

    The wet spots seem to be uniquely on the new, thinner models of the pf protectors. I have the spots on BKSOR, MBR, and JJP POTC, but none on the thicker models before those that I have on DI, IJ, older games.
    I suppose it could be clear coat changes across three manufacturers, but it seems more likely that the Mirco protectors are causing the effect, right?

    I also think its the new thinner PF protectors that are plagued with the phenomenon.

    #275 2 days ago
    Quoted from durgee7:

    I wanted to post an update to my custom made protector for Gottlieb Amazing Spider-Man. I'm not convinced it's working out for this particular playfield. I bet a lot of the crap showing up is bits of old paint breaking off. I may need to clear coat this one.[quoted image][quoted image]

    That looks like dirt from the PF. Did you clean the PF properly With naphtha?

    #276 2 days ago

    Either that or an old pinball

    #277 2 days ago
    Quoted from TwoHeartedMale:

    That looks like dirt from the PF. Did you clean the PF properly With naphtha?

    I thought my naptha cleaning was very thorough. I have vacuumed and naptha'd the crap out of it. I guess it can't be too clean if it's still leaving all that crud behind.

    Pinball is new.

    #278 2 days ago
    Quoted from durgee7:

    I thought my naptha cleaning was very thorough. I have vacuumed and naptha'd the crap out of it. I guess it can't be too clean if it's still leaving all that crud behind.
    Pinball is new.

    Maybe its cus your a state fan........ just sayin.....

    It kinda looks like old wax

    #279 2 days ago
    Quoted from TwoHeartedMale:

    Maybe its cus your a state fan........ just sayin.....
    It kinda looks like old wax

    State Graduate to you!!! Westland is my hometown, btw. Yeah, it does look like old wax. Maybe I need to scrub harder.

    Thing is...I need to be gentle on this playfield (see pic). I need to preserve the fragile looking paint. A clear coat could be in the works very soon.

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    #280 2 days ago
    Quoted from Chalkey:

    Could be horseshit, just a theory since some people don't have this issue with NIB games. I did remove the protector from my IMDN, cleaned and dried both the playfield and protector bottom (dragged tissue paper across both to make sure there was no moisture) after 15 minutes of reapplying the rings began to reappear.

    I'm about to get a NIB IMDN and am considering putting a protector on it. I have protectors on a couple of older games and they play and look great.
    Can you see the wet look rings on yours when it's turned on? Have you persisted with it or removed it?
    Is it a big task to install on IMDN?

    #281 1 day ago

    It's one if those things where you see them if you look for them. It doesn't bother me and people don't seem to notice it. I've done 3 IMDN installs, it's probably right near the middle as far as difficulty level compared with other games. It will take you a few hours, be sure to take lots of photos and label your Z connectors on both sides before disconnecting. I like to have a lot of space and lay everything out like it was sitting in the game, and keep all the screws / nuts with the items they hold down so you're not left wondering "did this nut have a washer under it, or was it this other guy over here"

    #282 1 day ago

    Thanks for that I think I will go ahead and give it a try.

    #283 1 day ago

    I noticed that they put some instructions on their site. The “wet spots” they say can be addressed by blowing compressed air under the protector.

    https://www.playfield-protectors.com/about/Docs

    I haven’t tried this or their suggested wax. That wax is not recommended by forum posts because of “solvents” but I am no chemist, just relaying what I’ve read.

    #284 1 day ago

    In regards to the "wet spots" it's nothing to worry about in regards to any moisture actually forming on your game. This is light refracting at different angles in regards to the playfield surface, clear coat and the protector. Here's a pic from a guy that tried glueing 2 pieces of lexan together to get a thicker piece. Because there is no gap in the "wet spot" areas of contact you get light refracting at different angles giving what our vision perceives as moisture on the surfaces. This is the same as areas of the protector that are laying perfectly flat against the clear coat on a playfield. No amount of waxing, blowing compressed air or rubbing a magic lamp will change the out come of how a protector looks once it has settled into a final resting position.

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    #285 1 day ago

    durgee7 what you are seeing is small impacts of airballs chipping away at the playfield paint and any residual wax or residue that was rubbed into it at the impact point. This is what these are designed for, especially on older games. Each one of those white dots would eventually lead to even more playfield wear and eventually bald spots without the protector in place. I only get this white dust on my old games, all of the modern games I make protectors for never see any of this after months in an arcade enviroment.

    #286 1 day ago
    Quoted from Thrillhouse:

    durgee7 what you are seeing is small impacts of airballs chipping away at the playfield paint and any residual wax or residue that was rubbed into it at the impact point. This is what these are designed for, especially on older games. Each one of those white dots would eventually lead to even more playfield wear and eventually bald spots without the protector in place. I only get this white dust on my old games, all of the modern games I make protectors for never see any of this after months in an arcade enviroment.

    Thanks, Thrillhouse! That makes perfect sense!

    I'm seriously considering a clearcoat (nothing excessive) to keep the remaining art from breaking off. Of course, I still want to use a protector on top. I could care less about "wet" spots at this point. I'll probably do another vacuum, naptha, vacuum, and then maybe clearcoat (all at home).

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