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(Topic ID: 237468)

Is there any downside to playfield protectors?


By beefzap

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 362 posts
  • 106 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by colonel_caverne
  • Topic is favorited by 16 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Is there any downside to playfield protectors?”

    • No Downside, a good investment 67 votes
      42%
    • No way, not needed to protect damage and might affect play 73 votes
      45%
    • No Opinion 21 votes
      13%

    (161 votes)

    Topic Gallery

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    There are 362 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 8.
    #151 1 year ago

    If you want to talk about changing the gameplay just look what clear-coating does to a game that didn't originally have it.

    No purist likes clear-coated playfields on older machines either. Way too fast.

    The thing that is nice about the playfield protectors vs clear-coating is you can easily remove the protector in about 5 minutes. No harm done.

    A playfield is only original once. Once you clear coat it, it will never be original again and the gameplay will forever be changed from the way it was originally designed to play.

    With that being said, I still clear-coat some of mine.

    #152 1 year ago

    I think the protectors are fine for some games and situations and not so much for others. I have an HEP CV (2009) with a Clear Coated Play Field. I do not have a protector on it and do not plan on putting one on it. The game has 10 years on the restoration and the pf still looks perfect like looking into a lake.

    #153 1 year ago

    I don't need no stinkin' play field protector. It will make the game play different from how the factory designed it to play. Protectors are dumb. A waste of money and a waste of time !
    """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    After almost 3 years of heavy play I pulled my protector.

    Yes. It was dirty underneath. No. It was not dirt. Yes. It was old dried out wax from before I learned not to use so much wax. Yes. There was coil dust on the play field. But not under the protector. The coil dust was off to the sides under the plastics and GI lights.

    I have fresh carnauba wax on and it plays----DOG SLOW ! So my protecter, with some scratching is going back on. I'd rather have a good time playing this pin instead of watching the ball wonder all over the place as it chases cupped inserts.

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    This is not a staged photo. And the slope is 6%.

    Let's Shoot Again !

    IMG_0213 (resized).JPG

    #154 1 year ago

    I bought a PinBot which had full mylar…I took that off and replaced it with the protector. The game play is significantly more fun to me. I feel like the ball moves perfectly and the pf looks 500x better than that cloudy mylar.

    From what I know, that mylar is factory. So, I love this concept of people saying the playfield protector is something inferior to a factory experience when in reality there are plenty of factory play fields covered in clear coat or mylar.

    Until someone can prove to me that to coefficient of friction is significant less than a clear coated playfield, I am not going to believe these things impact the game in a negative way.

    #155 1 year ago

    So I'm going to try this out. I just ordered a protector for my Grand Prix. It has significant cupping on the inserts. I'm going to give it a whirl. I've got a space shuttle with a hardtop and other than a few ball hang ups on the right ramp it plays great. I'll report back when it comes.

    #156 1 year ago

    From what I know, that mylar is factory. So, I love this concept of people saying the playfield protector is something inferior to a factory experience when in reality there are plenty of factory play fields covered in clear coat or mylar.
    /blockquote>

    Mylar was factory in a lot of cases, people who take those games home often remove it so the game plays better.

    #157 1 year ago

    Most of the time factory Mylar is removed because it is trashed, coming off, yellowed, blistered, ugly, ect... not for game play. I have removed lots of Mylar for these reasons. I have also installed Mylar to protect an entire Play Field and the game played the same.

    #158 1 year ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    Most of the time factory Mylar is removed because it is trashed, coming off, yellowed, blistered, ugly, ect... not for game play. I have removed lots of Mylar for these reasons. I have also installed Mylar to protect an entire Play Field and the game played the same.

    Does mylar play better than the plastic protector? Not trying to be a troll, genuinely curious.

    #159 1 year ago

    I bought a BSD that had a lexan playfield protector on it. Yes it looked nice at first but when I did my over the top clean as I do with all new games I noticed so much dirt,rubber,whatever it was underneath. Too much work removing it to get it right and it’s only going to work it’s way in again. It’s probably not going to bother most but I didn’t like it so sold it. Having said that it did dress up an older games playfield without going the full clearcoat route.

    I should note I am extremely fussy and clean my games way too regularly.

    #160 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    Does mylar play better than the plastic protector? Not trying to be a troll, genuinely curious.

    I have a Robocop with factory Mylar on. I think if it had a protector on that I would not be able to feel any difference in play action.

    The Mylar is OK. I can see it is there but do not notice it during game play. A nice clear coat would be prettier to look at but would not improve play action.

    #161 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    Does mylar play better than the plastic protector? Not trying to be a troll, genuinely curious

    No, not in IMHO. If there is a difference it is so subtle that I do not notice it. The obvious drawback to Mylar is removal is a PITA. The complete Mylar doesn't look as nice as a PF protector.

    #162 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    Does mylar play better than the plastic protector? Not trying to be a troll, genuinely curious.

    Not really, both options are susceptible to scratching and ball roll slowdown. Both are made of similar family of polyethylene terephthalate materials. The difference is most present protectors are using PETG versus PET (ie Mylar™, a brand name), meaning addition of glycol to the formula for added pliability and reduce the potential for brittleness which can occur with thicker, aged PET or problems when cutting with a CNC router.

    So what IS the real perk here? Best explained via example.
    Here is a Paragon I put a protector on due to slight insert sinkage (common) and after clear coat drip method I had to do to correct matters. The protector prevents the wear from ever coming back due to ball rolling on insert edges, and only detectable if you are a pinball collector. It may be hard to spot where the edges of the protector are from the photo, which means the protector was cut correctly and with reduced swarf. There was existing mylar rings around the pop bumpers that had no lifting damage. I recommend zooming in to get a better view. Fitting was overall fairly good with some trimming required. Sticky adhesive Mylar is not something you want to be putting on 40 year old, lacquered playfields, as it will eventually create air pocket bubbles on any uneven playfield surface. Attempts at future Mylar removal results in factory playfield coating damage. Natural static adhesion is more than suitable for protectors. The only other complete correct option is a full clear coat of the entire playfield in this particular case, but is a bit overzealous for minor sinkage.

    I still don't recommend protectors for any type of modern clear coated playfields or brand new games, especially in home use environments. They don't need them. Also, they don't protect against significant strikes from airballs or the dimpling that accompanies the same impacts.
    Paragon PF Large.jpg

    #163 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    Does mylar play better than the plastic protector? Not trying to be a troll, genuinely curious.

    yes, since its bonded to the PF and not floating. But no mylar is better. Lose mylar really sucks.

    #164 1 year ago

    Some of youse guys are really overthinking this thing IMHO

    #165 1 year ago

    Some people love them. Some people hate them. It’s going to cost $100 and some disassembly/reassembly to find out which one you are. You can’t convince a hater that there is any benefit. You can’t convince a lover that you don’t need them on new or modern games.

    #166 1 year ago

    Now that a majority of Owners accept and prefer protectors the ideal would be to get the price down to around 49 bucks, that way they can be switched out every other shop job.
    The shipping from Germany is what is killing these things, 150 bucks is too high.
    Every unit they sell is a pattern, and with a raw material price of less than 20 bucks many will be home made. In a few years I think the price will go down.

    #167 1 year ago

    You can find half price deals on them on Ebay ($69.00). The half price ones have a small flaw (generally a scratch) . I have bought a couple and never could find the flaw.

    #168 1 year ago

    Well.....I bought one for my BM66 that I should be receiving this month. I will post my impressions once I get that sucker installed and play a few games. Thanks for the spirited discussions and points and counter points. Worst case I lose a little over a hundred bucks

    #169 1 year ago

    How do you prevent movement on these things? I received the one for my Grand Prix and it has about a mm of play in it. I'm not done assembling the PF but there isn't anything holding it on. I have a space shuttle with a hardtop that's glued down and I think the gameplay is great and it looks nice. I'm on the fence about this movement though.

    Do you guys all have movement or is this one I bought from Germany cut crappy?

    #170 1 year ago

    There should be a spot that is somewhere close to a post where you could just tuck in the protector under the post and tighten it down. I have done a bunch of them for myself and others and there always seems to be a place where you can clamp it under something. You just need to make sure that the protector doesn't bind and raise up.

    #171 1 year ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    Do you guys all have movement or is this one I bought from Germany cut crappy?

    They all move to some degree, like whthrs166 said once you get it fitted just find a post or something. At the same time that might not work either, because it can cause the protector to kink and lift up. Most of the time you don't need to do anything, on occasion I'll use that double sided tape cliffy uses on his protectors in a few areas (that's only once everything is 100% assembled). It takes time to get it right, just make sure you do a light coat of wax after a few plays.

    #172 1 year ago

    There's no where to tuck it under a post. It's cut too far away. So I've played about 10 games on it.

    I really like how quiet it is. It really cuts the noise down a ton.
    I like how the ball moves. It feels exactly the same as it was. I think the perception it's playing different is probably because of the sound. It probably makes it seem like it's sliding across the surface but it isn't.

    Only downsides so far is how it moves a bit and how the ball jumps when it transitions onto the protector from the shooter. I don't know that it will affect gameplay that much.

    Overall I'm happy so far.

    #173 1 year ago

    None of my protectors seem to move. At least not that I can notice.

    Another thing to realize is that Mylar is Dupont's trade name for biaxially-oriented PET sheet. Mylar is PET sheet that has been physically oriented (stretched) in two directions.

    PETG is also a member of the Polyethylene Terephthalate family of plastic resins but contains an additive which makes it a copolymer.

    The physical properties are similar in some areas and differ in others.

    So basically if you hate the PETG playfield protectors you automatically hate Mylar too along with automotive clear coating since all alter gameplay.

    #174 1 year ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    I received the one for my Grand Prix and it has about a mm of play in it. I'm not done assembling the PF

    The only movement I can detect on Grand Prix is it lifts slightly when playfield is raised. Once assembled yours may "Take Up". Did you get the thicker one from BA Amusements?

    #175 1 year ago

    The only downside is stripping the playfield to put them on. It takes forever...or you could pay someone (it costs a lot) to do it for you.

    #176 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    None of my protectors seem to move. At least not that I can notice.
    Another thing to realize is that Mylar is Dupont's trade name for biaxially-oriented PET sheet. Mylar is PET sheet that has been physically oriented (stretched) in two directions.
    PETG is also a member of the Polyethylene Terephthalate family of plastic resins but contains an additive which makes it a copolymer.
    The physical properties are similar in some areas and differ in others.
    So basically if you hate the PETG playfield protectors you automatically hate Mylar too along with automotive clear coating since all alter gameplay.

    Science +1. Now we just need a way to compare play on a new machine with and without the protector.

    1 week later
    #177 1 year ago

    I have just sat and read this whole thread from start to finish.

    So Basically it boils down to this

    #1 If you like them use them

    #2 If you don't like them, then don't use them

    #3 If you have not used them then don't comment because you don't know

    #4 Not everyone has thousands of dollars constantly being shit out of their ass to restore and clearcoat a playfield.
    So as much as some people would love to restore and clearcoat a playfield, but don't shit money out of their ass, this is not an option.

    #5 There are still hundreds of games you can not get reproduction or NOS playfields for ANYWHERE so if someone wants to preserve what is left of their worn playfield, for them it is a cheaper alternative for them to try protect what is left.

    My two cents.

    #178 1 year ago

    I bought a restored TAF from Italy and the guy had put one on after installing a new Mirco playfield, which looks like its already clearcoated?. He took great pleasure in telling me that a ball has never touched the playfield.

    I'm not sold. My TZ and Tron have been double waxed and they play fast and the paint looks really deep and glossy. My TAF on the other hand looks nice, but not as nice. Also, there are specks of dust underneath in a few places that I can't get to. On a couple of occasions the protector has ridden up slightly during a game, at which point you can see the ball "warping" the protector as it passes over it. I've even had the ball get stuck on the bookcase circle part once.

    I feel like I can't clean my machine properly, which irritates me. If I try and wax the protector there is a chance I'll get wax underneath and it'll be impossible to clean up, so that's out too. The only saving grace really is that I'm not getting any wear on the ball drop area on Addams, which isn't adequately protected by a Cliffy (it drops before the rollover switch).

    I think the next time I'm inclined to take the ramp off I'll probably cut it out..

    2 weeks later
    #179 1 year ago

    Put a protector on my BM66 and looks great and I can't tell any gameplay differences. Not a bad install either. I will do this again for any NIB Sterns that I buy.

    #180 1 year ago

    I've never ever considered a protector for a modern game with factory clear. To me these protectors are awesome for older games with sunken inserts. When I say older, I mean EMs and very early SS. I have had great success because it completely fixes the sunken inserts. Basically I clean the game to the max and blow any dust from the playfield with a compressor. Next I do basic touch up with a paint pen and simply put the protector on. This saves the hassle of clearcoating and saves tons of time. I like to wax the protector when I first put it on and then occasionally use liquid wax to clean and wax at the same time when it gets a little dirty. With a little care you keep the wax from under the protector. The game plays just as fast and without the cupped insert headaches.

    I'm putting one on a Paragon right now and can't wait to play!

    #181 1 year ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I don't need no stinkin' play field protector. It will make the game play different from how the factory designed it to play. Protectors are dumb. A waste of money and a waste of time !
    """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
    After almost 3 years of heavy play I pulled my protector.
    Yes. It was dirty underneath. No. It was not dirt. Yes. It was old dried out wax from before I learned not to use so much wax. Yes. There was coil dust on the play field. But not under the protector. The coil dust was off to the sides under the plastics and GI lights.
    I have fresh carnauba wax on and it plays----DOG SLOW ! So my protecter, with some scratching is going back on. I'd rather have a good time playing this pin instead of watching the ball wonder all over the place as it chases cupped inserts.

    .

    This is not a staged photo. And the slope is 6%.
    Let's Shoot Again !
    [quoted image]

    I have put several hours on Seawitch since I pulled the protector and it actually plays quite well. I was surprised because I made an installed the protector before I ever played a game. This Witch has a couple of sunken inserts and a large wear area in the middle. Strangely, there are no cupped inserts.

    The only drawback I have with the protector is wax. I have a heavy hand and tend to use too much of whatever it is I am applying. I have had dried wax migrate under the protector. That is my only problem. I have since change my method for applying wax and this dried wax problem should go away.

    1 week later
    #182 1 year ago

    Guys.. I have some issues on my TOM playfield. Missing part of an insert, some wear on the main area of the illusion listing. I am getting the decals for the insert fixes and for the main area (above flippers). I believe (per the seller) that they are coated, so it sounds like I don't have to necessarily clear them. I am unsure how they will last. I am considering the product from playfield-protectors.com, has anyone else used this? Is it a valid, long term solution? Will it negatively affect gameplay? I know there are thoughts on both sides, I am just wondering if I am wasting my money or if this will really protect my fixes and keep me from wanting to replace the playfield.

    #183 1 year ago

    It's hard to know how you'll feel about it, everyone has a different perspective / tolerance level.

    First off - having a playfield protector on means, obviously, your playfield is essentially untouched by the pinballs. This means no ball trails, smashed ball drop rollover switch holes, etc. But, the ball will wear and scratch the protector instead so it's not like its a panacea for wear & tear.

    Playfield protectors can alter how a game plays. They will be slower than a waxed playfield, they will raise the floor of the playfield up slightly which might mean you have to adjust rollover switches, etc to compensate. They can create reflections that might be undesirable. They may trap dirt and debris underneath which would become difficult if not impossible to clean without removing it again, etc.

    The TAF I bought had a brand new Mirko playfield with a full playfield protector fitted from new. The restorer made a big deal out of the fact that "no ball has ever touched the playfield". Initially I thought this was great, but it plays noticeably slower than my TZ and Tron which are double waxed. There are also a few areas where I can see dirt which I can't access, in one place in particular there is a wood splinter which actually forms a bump when you run your finger over it. There are also a couple of areas where grease, moisture or some other liquid sits between the protector and the playfield, which will never go away. It has on a couple of occasions lifted up slightly which has meant I've had to remove the glass to reposition it back down again.

    I'm planning to remove mine when I get the chance, simply because my playfield is already clearcoated and the usage it gets does not warrant having the additional protection given by the protector. I tend to look at it as one of those "bonnet bra" (hood I guess in the States) which protects your car from stonechips at the cost of making it look terrible. You're compromising your own enjoyment of it for the benefit of the next owner.

    #184 1 year ago
    Quoted from Durzel:

    You're compromising your own enjoyment of it for the benefit of the next owner.

    Well put.

    #185 1 year ago

    Hum. Thanks.. Quite the dichotomy of fans and haters.

    #186 1 year ago

    I think durzel has a fair assessment. I personally like them and do not notice the play being slower. I put one on a total nuclear annihilation just to experiment with the speed and I would say there is no way to tell once it was waxed.

    #187 1 year ago

    I just installed a playfield protector on a sweet Fireball '72. The game does NOT play slower. It plays waaay faster. It plays smooth and fast, and the protector does not interfere with switches in any way. I only had to adjust 1 rollover when I installed it. And right now, it's virtually invisible.

    I was skeptical when he sent me it to install, but now I'ma believer.

    #188 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    I would say there is no way to tell once it was waxed.

    I mentioned before that I have only used them on older games. Mostly EMs and recently Paragon to counteract the sunken inserts. I always wax them when I first put them in and they play FAST. Hard to imagine them actually slowing a game down...

    The only downside that I have seen is caused by standing the machine on its back for transportation or long time storage. If the machine is not on its legs, the protector won't be sitting flat and can get into an odd position and maybe get a bend in it that won't sit flat when you put it back up on legs. Granted it would have to be a long term storage and the protector will lay flat again after a few days.

    #189 1 year ago

    I went to a fellow pinsiders bar in TX and played games that ALL had the protector installed. No notice of any issues or changes in game play at all. I ordered one for my TOM to protect the playfield restorations and decals I am installing.

    #190 1 year ago

    Anybody with a solution on how to get rid of Newton rings when installing the PF protector? I have a protector on my DI installed at factory without any Newton Rings -phenomenon and then there are two pins where I've myself installed the PF protectors and there is the Newton Ring -phenomenon very visible. I had cleaned both PF:s before with naphta, if I recall correctly.

    #191 1 year ago

    I am so close to purchasing one for my F-14 tomcat due to the fact that 80% of the inserts are raised. The mylar is so bad that i can't get them completely flush with the playfield. And removing mylar isn't an option as all the artwork and decals will come up with it. Stupid System 11's. Anyone used a playfield protector for raised inserts?

    #192 1 year ago
    Quoted from Steveboos:

    I am so close to purchasing one for my F-14 tomcat due to the fact that 80% of the inserts are raised. The mylar is so bad that i can't get them completely flush with the playfield. And removing mylar isn't an option as all the artwork and decals will come up with it. Stupid System 11's. Anyone used a playfield protector for raised inserts?

    What decals? The insert text is screened just like the rest of the art. If the mylar is lifted the text is still down it won't hurt anything. Mylar can't stop you from leveling the inserts at all. The mylar might be bumpy but the inserts can easily be leveled.

    #193 1 year ago

    I had a Paragon with the classic cupped inserts quickly wearing. The playfield protectors were out but no Paragon. As soon as they made one for Paragon I purchased and installed it. So great to not worry about that playfield wearing down every game. Perfect use of a playfield protector!

    For a new game or a game with no cupped inserts or problematic areas? No way. It does play different. Even slightly, it is a bit different and I prefer the feel without the protector.

    Hardtops are similar. I have played a few and it is just not the same. I would much prefer a game with a little wear than a hard topped game.

    I think that for a decent playfield with cupped inserts go playfield protector.

    For a little wear, wax and play.

    For a totally shitty playfield, go for a hardtop if available. If not, just play the damned thing.

    #194 1 year ago

    Regards protector waxing, how are people doing this? I've got carnauba wax and apply it using a foam pad, but even being careful it gets on star posts, etc. I can wipe this off easily enough, but with a protector I can imagine the liquid-state wax could get underneath it and then become impossible to remove?

    #195 1 year ago
    Quoted from Durzel:

    Regards protector waxing, how are people doing this? I've got carnauba wax and apply it using a foam pad, but even being careful it gets on star posts, etc. I can wipe this off easily enough, but with a protector I can imagine the liquid-state wax could get underneath it and then become impossible to remove?

    I just clean mine with Novus 1 or any other plexiglass polish, don't think I have ever waxed it.

    #196 1 year ago

    I have one on my F2K, and it certainly took care of the cupped insert issue. It is odd not hearing the ball move around - but the benefits are well worth it and the folks I bought it from (Beehive) were wonderful to work with.

    For those who wax the protector, what are you using. I hear a lot of folks talk about Blitz wax, but what else is out there?

    --Jim

    #197 1 year ago

    I just installed a protector on my Eight Ball Champ. The playfield was in great condition, but there were a few cupped inserts right near the flippers that majorly affected slow moving balls. With the protector installed, the game once again plays as it should. Installation was fairly straightforward, but the protector was not cut perfectly and certain things didn't line up like they were supposed to. I had to trim the protector in several places to get it to lay flat, but I'm very happy with the end result. I don't think I would ever recommend one of these for a modern game with a clearcoated playfield, but they are a great option for older games. It's certainly way easier and more cost effective than a playfield swap.

    #198 1 year ago

    Well, I bought the protector for my TOM from playfield-protectors.com and the decals to repair the playfield wear. I am going to have to remove the paint on the existing inserts so that's a bit nerve racking but I guess worst case I get a new playfield. I just have one insert to repair and then the main area overlay (on the illusions) which is where the paint has to be removed. I am thinking, combined with the cliffys, this could be a longer term solution (at a lot less time and money) than doing a pf swap.

    #199 1 year ago

    I never use the foam pad for waxing. I use a 4 inch square of paper towel for pin point accuracy.

    #200 1 year ago
    Quoted from Marvin:

    yes, since its bonded to the PF and not floating. But no mylar is better. Lose mylar really sucks.

    Do you have a playfield protector?

    I do. I have three of them now with another on order.

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