If you have let’s say an expensive game like Beatles platinum or diamond. Then it is worth it.

Here is one for ya: I have had my MM for about 4 years now. Played it like normal but always had problems with hitting all the switches all the time in the orbits. Also had problems with lots of pop outs on Merlin's Hole (with a Cliffy) . Installed a protector on it last year. No more issues with the switches on the orbit. No more issues with Merlin's hole (still using the Cliffy) . The machine actually plays better with the protector. Can't really explain the orbit improvement.

Because they're collectors not players. They see games as perfect objects not as vending machines like us. Different people like different things. It is what it is.

you adjusted the switches and the game plays slower, so less rejects, and less running high on the orbit guide.

I've learned something about this hobby by readying this thread - didn't know all the different ways of thinking about protectors!

Anyway, I wish that the OP would put a poll on this thread because it would be interesting to see the percentages.

If I had to bet I'd guess that most of the responses were from people who never even tried one because the only possible negative from using one of these is the initial cost of the protector. The installation is fairly idiot-proof and the gameplay is nice and smooth afterwards.

They are fairly expensive (around $100) but as far as any other downside to them?

There are none because you can always just remove it in 5 minutes and you are no worse off than you were when you installed it.

The only thing you are risking by getting one of these is the cost of the protector. That's why I tried one out first. After that, I was on board for two more.

Did you read the thread? People are saying the games play like shit. Lol.

Everyone has a different opinion on gameplay. I have 2 on 90's DE machines with raised or lowered inserts and they both play much smoother and dare I say faster. I've felt no need to put one on my SWEP1 as none of the inserts have issues.

Gatecrasher is exactly right, the only downside is it's $100+ to test and see if it's for you. I've been lucky to get both of mine in group buys with free shipping.

For me it makes it a lot easier to clean/maintain on location.
That and if I skip a cycle or three, my pins won't take the brunt of my neglect.

As for dimples, all playfields dimple.... its just on sterns it's a lot more apparent for whatever reason. I have a TNA and JJP without any protectors and they don't look anything like some of these sterns I've seen.

I think his point is that they are sayin it, not experiencing it. I tend to agree with @gatecrasher…after you wax it, you wouldn’t know there was a difference. Before wax, I find they are slightly slower and thus noticeable. I like to play my machines and don’t care as much about the protection aspect, I just find it causes old surfaces to play in uniform ways. I did install one on my #tna recently because I lucked out with some play field issues…game still plays perfectly with no noticeable difference.

I have had 6 of them. On solid state, Em's and 2 Alpha Numeric. Every single game played much faster and smoother. Love them!

If you are an average player, you might not notice the differences in gameplay. That doesn't mean that there aren't differences.

Reading through this thread, I’ve come to one conclusion...

There is not a simple YES or NO question, whether you are for or against playfield protectors.

Let’s at least acknowledge two separate avenues up for discussion:

1. IMPROVE: An old pin with existing issues on the playfield like cupped inserts, possibly heavy wear, uneven surface, worn rollovers etc. Here a playfield protector could very well improve gameplay because the original playfield is beat. Also protects playfield but main point is to improve on existing flaws.

2. PROTECT: Putting a playfield protector on a brand new pin to prevent damage from ever happening.

Appreciate all the varied points of view on these topics let’s just agree not to conflate these two separate topics. For example, just because 1. is a good idea for someone does not imply that 2. is a good idea as well. You could have someone agreeing with 1 and disagreeing with 2.

Cheers everyone! This is a good discussion!

On newer games they are dumb, as you don't need them.

On older games they can cause all sorts of problems - balls getting stuck being the main one.

They have their place - great for old playfield with bad cupped inserts - but the "plastic on grandma's couch" analogy is apt. They are usually unnecessary, look and feel dumb, and will make people think you are an old lady.

I'm gonna develop a plastic case that goes around the ball to protect your playfeild protector from the ball.

I’ve put a protector on one game. It was on my Diner - after removing the mylar I replaced many of the decals and did a few more creative fixes (who knew that the cover of Time Magazine is a real close match to Diner’s red!). It plays and feels a bit different with the protector, but I for sure don’t feel disturbed by it, but since I had mylar on it before the difference is probably minimal.

In general, I’m not sure I like the idea of putting a protector on a new game. I feel like I am protecting the game for the owner after me - why would I want to do that?

I also think if the manufacturer thought the game should have a protector he would have installed one. I am always suspicious when a distributor recommends putting a protector on a new game - is he saying the playfield is not real robust?

As far as I know all the protectors are thermoplastic (PET-G or PC). That means cured paint will always be more durable than the protectors - for sure in terms of scratch resistance. This means the protectors will show scratches after a while and will need to be replaced or polished. Think of the plastic ramps - as far as I know these are also thermoplastic and they scratch up. I’ve had good success with Novus 1,2 and 3 on ramps so it probably works on the protectors as well - haven’t tried it yet though. I have not been real successful removing ramp scratches with a torch - poor technique on my side probably - might also be an option for the protectors.

Crazy Levi, the "Voice of sanity and reason"!

If a ball is getting stuck it is because the protector was not cut correctly. Nothing more. Nothing less. I have made 5 of these and no ball hang ups yet (allow me to polish my fingernails on my shirt and call myself the resident expert ). Of course, mine were all for single-level play fields on older pins which makes it a bit easier. Working around ramp entry points takes a different approach.

I played a Bally pin at TPF 2 years ago and a ball was always hanging up in the back; The protector was not cut correctly.

The challenge for fitting a protector is compensating for star rollovers. The only way to resolve that issue is to remove and raise the inserts; Especially if it is a Bally Strike-N-Spares with 10 star rollovers.

My Nine Ball has 8 drop targets positioned "vertically" from flipper to back box. There is a pass-thru right above a post that the ball wanted to keep hanging up in. A piece of scrap protector glued to the top of the offending drop target cured the problem.

"I operate lots of new pins. They get played probably 10x more than pins in a home environment. "

Exactly, so normal dimpling works itself to a normal surface quickly, in a home environment it may take years, all while you have to look at the mess.

A premium price come sell time, a premium condition playfield for inheritance.

That is what they are for, that is their job so your hard paint can remain pristine.

Sounds like a new Market for ramp protectors.

See the thousand- plus posts on quality cutting and cheaper materials from certain Manufacturer.

I wouldn't be, they obviously care about your long-term happiness with the purchase.

Keep hearing about these non-specific differences, the only difference documented is play is faster,smoother,quieter.

They also hate spending 1500 dollars to purchase/change out a reproduction playfield.

usually the case, most games can be adjusted to make sure this stops happening. (mainly a bigger issue if circles are cut to big on star rollover or pop bumpers).
The one big improvement, is mylar doesn't interfere with ball play anymore. Annoying when a slow moving ball gets knocked off a course due to sling shot mylar.

Well said. That is the big difference. To you, your pins are revenue generators. You come by once a week, empty the coin box, maybe wipe down the play field, and maybe wipe the glass. And maybe check the play action and hope nothing is broken. You hope the pin gets enough play to pay for itself. And then maybe you sell it and get some of your original investment back. You are selling because it is now a worn out POS.

I come along and buy what you are selling. A worn out POS. And I invest the time and money to fix it up. And I want to stay fixed up. But I want to play, too. A protector satisfies that need.

In some ways, they are like an old POS car that gets restored. I could go buy a new Vette for 50K and drive it and enjoy it and it is going to get dinged up. But the old beater I brought back to life I will be afraid to drive because I have so many gd hours in giving it a nice paint job. I don't want my sweat labor to be getting hosed up with parking lot dents.

Why are people assuming that a home use game doesn't get enough use to sustain damage . Mine and friends machines get used ALOT. Alot more than the machines we see tucked away in the dark corners of the bars and bowling alleys.

My IJ came with one installed from the seller that I thought I'd hate it but turns out doesn't bother much other than an occasional ball spin that seems different but not often enough for me to cut it out. I actually dislike a soft mansion mylar decal on an Addams much more than the hard plastic on the IJ protector.

Because we've owned games and we know this to be true.

the first game I ever bought was a Williams Argosy. It had 77,000 on the playmeter.

17 years later i've put 40,000 games on it. The playfield is not noticeably worse for the wear, and I have pics from when I bought it.

Wear is simply not a significant issue in home use.

Let me phrase this playfield question another way...

Let’s say you visit the pinball museum of your dreams... and every game is tuned even better than when originally released , and whether you approach an old classic or a brand new game... you notice there’s a plastic playfield protector on it.

Do you say to yourself...

1. Yes, I love playfield protectors and I’m so happy they’re on all these games I’ve always wanted to play... or...

2. Not ideal but I guess it’s still OK... or...

3. Fu@k me! Why the fu@k are there playfield protectors on all these games!? I wanted to feel the original for f’s sake - what kind of museum is this?!

Pinball to me is about the *ideal*, it’s about reaching toward games and experiences that are as great as can be with no compromizes. At its best it’s about something being as good as it can be. It’s visiting a friend’s fine-tuned collection or going to a comp and seeing the best example of a game that is possible and just saying wow, this is fantastic. For me, the dream is playing a HEP game, mint as can be, even better than factory mint, and playing it and saying to yourself that this is the best playing example of the game you have ever played.

This is just what the ideal pinball experience is to me and all I’m saying is that a playfield protector has about as much chance of being part of that ideal as there is Chris from HEP insisting that all his restores now come with protectors.

I respect all the other reasons for loving the protectors, fix the beater, protect the router and cover grandma’s couch. I’m just saying it’s not for me. A lot of the time, the protector argument has a financial root to it (increase resale, cheaper than new playfield, easier so faster meaning saved dollars etc). To me the ideal, the dream, is precisely when something is as good as it can be without any regard for the financial component!

It’s the difference between visiting your friend who has a rare, mint classic car and he says he won’t take you for a drive because it’s just too risky and talking about money and costs... vs a friend who takes you for the best ride of your life and buys you lunch at the McDonalds drive-through without a care in the world. Which would tou prefer? The drive feels good precisely because it’s risky and in fact is actually slowly damaging the car and adding miles to the car! He takes you out because you’re worth it and that feels good!

It’s simply the difference to going to disneyland and not caring about how much the corndog costs and just enjoying the damn corndog, vs your daddy telling you that the corndogs are just too expensive so he brought along a some crackers from home instead. I say, when in disneyland, since you’ve already paid thousands to get there, just enjoy the damn corndog. It’s a childhood dream, the financial component just ruins it. You just met Mickey Mouse and your dad is talking about saving money.

Now where was I, I’m getting a bit hungry... my point is that playfield protectors are just like corndogs in disneyland

So pick 1, 2 or 3 above and that pretty much sums up where your at

easily somewhere between 2 and 3. I'd probably drop a dollar then that was it, all while wishing it played right so I could drop more.

I have tried games with playfield protectors and the ball seems to slide at times instead of roll, plus noticed more airballs off drop targets. Now when I see them on machines I usually keep walking. Also I would not bother buying a pin with one since I don’t want to take it out and deal with the adjustments.

So you have actually walked up to a game ready to play it, then said, "I am Not going to play this" because it has a clear protector on it? Interesting.

Also, you would NOT purchase a pinball machine you are looking to buy, BECAUSE someone put a playfield protector on it? I have never heard people say this before.

If given a choice between no pinball and playing a game with a protector on it, I would play for sure! Pinball is fun!

I’m just saying that of given a choice between one with a protector and one without (same game side by side), I would pick the one without!

True

Someone else did on page 1 of this thread

I wouldn’t buy one with a protector on it. You can’t put a protector on the coils, mechs, switches etc

Somebody is gonna want a premium for something I don’t want in the first place

To be fair, having a hard time here comparing coil/switch condition with playfield condition. Like you said earlier in this thread, to each their own.. just trying to digest why hobbyists have such an issue with other people putting protectors on their machines, even calling them stupid. I mean there are some people here who really really dont want folks using these.

I tend to like logical connections. Then I am told some of you WONT buy a pinball machine you want, because it has a playfield protector on it, one could just cut it off with scissors in 2 minutes? Seems illogical to me, but maybe I'm overreacting.

Yeah I read the thread. But if you read my post you'd see that I have three of them. I'm not just trolling the thread. lol

They do not make my early SS games play like shit. The PET plays faster than Mylar. It's somewhere between a clear-coated playfield and one with a factory Mylar installed.

If the 1st one I bought would have made the game "play like shit" as you claim, I definitely wouldn't have bought two more a few months later.

The thing they are really nice for are sunken inserts. A playfield with sunken inserts plays like shit. Plus when you play games with sunken or un-leveled inserts playfield wear is dramatically accelerated around the edges of the inserts. Slap one of these babies on and it will play better and there will be no more wear.

What is the downside?

They cost $100. That's the only "downside" I can see.

Anyone else see any "downside" to buying one of these?

Because one could be misled as to the real condition of the machine, not like that would ever happen here

That's why so many pictures are necessary in a FS thread.

I agree with Levi and Gatecrasher, there are situations in older games, sunken inserts, where it is worth it because it makes the game more playable due to the defects or wear.

This is a good point.

Having even fewer reservations about putting plays on your game is a good thing. This is how I feel about Cliffys in the shooter lane. Get them in place and worry not in that instant when you press the Start button and hear the thunk of the ball eject.

Something more:

I've played certain collector pins on location with PF protectors and the ball can skid/glide far more easily than it can without the protector. This means the ball is moving but not rolling after it's flipped. That means the physics involved are a bit different when it strikes an object on the PF. Can you tell? Honestly, yes. The ball moves in a way that is slightly peculiar. Sure, a fresh coat of wax should theoretically produce the same effect - and in many cases it does - but that effect is temporary. Even a coat of Blitz will "tack up" after a couple of dozen plays.

The part about debris collecting under the protector and scratching the PF seems unrealistic. Unless your location is filthy, I don't see anything of consequence making its way under your protector. And even if it did, what friction would come into play that would grind the dirt into your PF? If the protector is properly in position, it will stay in position. They don't slide around. They have numerous indexing holes.

I had not thought about that. Some one playing dirty could hide a lot of sins under a protector.

I would not either. Same goes for Pinstadium. I'd insist that junk gets removed and is not factored into the price.

And thanks to Levi I have this image in head. Lol.

plastic-sofa-cover-sofa-covers-plastic-sofa-design-clear-plastic-covers-ideas (resized).jpg

There has to be an experiment we could run to prove/disprove all of this talk about the game playing differently. I feel like I have seen the same ball physics on the waxed protector as I have seen on a waxed clear coat pf. I have never seen the “slide” that people are talking about. I don’t know how that would be possible as the PET G should always have a rougher surface than automotive clear coat.

Furthermore, people rave about the “hardtop” restorations…how is this different? They use the same exact product base correct?

Hard tops are not different, they suck too.

Oooooof I beg to differ there. This outta get good.

Well, Marvin, I gotta say you are consistent. Either be happy to play on a blown out POS play field with missing paint and caved in inserts or go buy a new pin. You sure are a man of options.

They you don't actually read what I've written. A fully blown field is bad and a hardtop is better than nothing in that case. But there are people showing games they are sanding the art off of for a hard top that have minimal wear. Taking a reasonable condition game and destroying it for a hard top is stupid. Those and protectors are last resort fixes. They shouldn't be first choice.

Why, you seem to like them, I don't whats the issue? You and anyone else can put that stuff on your games all day. I won't. There's no issue at all.

In my experience, only thing that can make a difference is stand-ups. I put a protector on a Dialed In before the first game and it had a lot of airballs. Then a friend of mine also bought a DI without protector and it did not have any airballs.

So I adjusted the standups a little bit higher and that solved the airballs, but there are other components that you cannot adjust, so they could change the behaviour of the ball a little bit. But then again, no two games play the same anyways, with or without protector.

OK. I see where you are coming from now. But I still think a play field with minimal wear can benefit from a protector.

Yes, I will talk my customers out of adding them on a NIB game til I'm blue in the face. Too many problems. Had too many customers cutting them off after paying for them which is a shame. Not needed in a home environment. On a route, sure, go to town.

I had them on two of my games and removed them both. I got tired of dealing with the little thing like stuck balls on the edges of the plastic, the switch adjustments due to the playfield being a few mm higher and the overall slower play. Maybe i'd feel differently if it was on an older game with lots of cupped inserts.