(Topic ID: 237468)

Is there any downside to playfield protectors?


By beefzap

6 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 287 posts
  • 87 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 26 days ago by durgee7
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Is there any downside to playfield protectors?”

    • No Downside, a good investment 44 votes
      42%
    • No way, not needed to protect damage and might affect play 51 votes
      49%
    • No Opinion 10 votes
      10%

    (105 votes)

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    There are 287 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 6.
    #51 6 months ago

    ...

    #52 6 months ago

    I’ve played a few games on pins with protectors... totally changes the way the ball rolls since the surface is different (plastic is much harder and slippery so ball can slide more often than roll). In other words, the ball with spin and roll differently.

    Now some people might not know the difference and others might not care and to each his own - it’s your pin so do what you like. But for me, I didn’t like the feel and would prefer without. For my own games I would rather slowly damage over the years than cover and keep mint.

    More to the point is that I don’t think I would barely even notice wear over the years from my home use.

    #53 6 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    *sigh* Yes I understand that, that was kind of the point. Even with that many games you wouldn't hurt a PF. If you want to see chipping holes after 1 day check in the Dialed In thread.
    EDIT: Although I didn't put one on mine

    Thank you sir.

    I completely understand the issues with JJP holes and I'm about to get another one.

    I agree with the need to do something there. It ain't a PF protector for me though and I know you get it!

    It didn't work for Stormy Daniels either.

    #54 6 months ago

    I only use them on games without clearcoated playfields or games that much older than 25+ years of age. Most of the time they are unecessary.

    #55 6 months ago

    Thanks for all the various comments and experiences.

    My main reason for considering this is for new Stern games to prevent playfield damage from day one. I would not put on an older B/W machine as I have not ever had one that had any damage/dimples/craters.

    My TWD looked not so good after ~100 plays and want to prevent that from happening on any new games.

    Sounds like about 50/50 as far as any negative effects.

    Getting BM66. Anyone installed one on a BM66? Installation easy? Which supplier did you use (not sure if there are multiple ones)?

    -1
    #56 6 months ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    Do some of you guys truly think the pinball should never touch the playfield?

    Yes lots people do when they see how the balls beat the shit out of these new style PFs in their NIB $10,000 game. They do not know nor do they care about subtle changes in game play. Lots of people that have really nice older games that want to play the shit out of them and don't have to worry about insert damage, having to install Cliffy's (which also change game play) ect...

    #57 6 months ago
    Quoted from beefzap:

    B/W machine as I have not ever had one that had any damage/dimples/craters

    There are games like MB that if you have a really nice original PF you can play the heck out of it and never worry about PF wear. The Drac Trac in particular. You could Mylar that area also. Mb has serious wear issues with the (sensitive) Monster and Instrument inserts. Once those areas are protected, Game On!

    #58 6 months ago
    Quoted from beefzap:

    Thanks for all the various comments and experiences.
    My main reason for considering this is for new Stern games to prevent playfield damage from day one. I would not put on an older B/W machine as I have not ever had one that had any damage/dimples/craters.
    My TWD looked not so good after ~100 plays and want to prevent that from happening on any new games.
    Sounds like about 50/50 as far as any negative effects.
    Getting BM66. Anyone installed one on a BM66? Installation easy? Which supplier did you use (not sure if there are multiple ones)?

    If you had a bad experience with TWD, then get one for BM66. You can always take it off if you don't like it.

    #59 6 months ago
    Quoted from Mitch:

    Unnessasary in a home use game. Changes the way game plays.

    Quoted from bluespin:

    Dust from the coils will find its way in between the protector and the playfield. The game play is different. I would only install one if; I had an older game with cupped inserts and playfields weren’t reproduced for the title, playfield on an older game is in bad shape and again there is no aftermarket repro playfield available

    I cannot agree with any of this. I brought my heavily routed Seawitch home in March 2019, 3 years ago. It was beat to shit and needed shopped. I shopped it and made a protector. I'm sure that I ever played it without the protector so I cannot compare play action.

    It is white wood down the middle and there are a few flame outs at the inserts. I laid this protector down and it has been on for all 3 years. I don't see any coil dust. I do have some swarf ( That's a word. Scrabble/Google it up) from the edges of the play field that I failed to completely clean off before laying it down. I don't notice the swarf when I am playing so I don't worry about it. But there is no outside dirt that has gotten under the protector.

    That said, with a blown out play field and a protector on I am rather lackadaisical when it comes to lifting the glass and cleaning the protector/play field. A crappy ball is not going to make a blown play field worse and I have a protector so I don't have to worry about it. I play it with impunity.

    You can see the dirt at the inlanes.

    IMG_9937 (resized).JPGIMG_9938 (resized).JPGIMG_9941 (resized).JPG

    This is a new sponge applicator that I just finished using for the right inlane and in front of the right sling. Yes, cleaning this play field was sometime ago.

    IMG_9943 (resized).JPG

    Whitewood and flameouts.

    IMG_9940 (resized).JPG

    Here it is with a fresh cleaning and wax.

    IMG_9944 (resized).JPG

    It plays fast and it plays smooth. Sometimes I can ever hear the ball rolling. Sometimes. With the fresh wax it will play even faster. When people say they do not like the way a protector plays I fail to understand. This protector is harder than the wood it is protecting. And when anybody says their game plays slower with a protector on, I have a hard time believing them.

    I have thousands on plays on this. And it still looks good. But what you cannot see are all of the scratches that are all over. If I were to hold it up to the light you would see hundreds of minute scratches everywhere. But during game play, with the lights on and the play field glass on you see nothing but warm fuzzies.

    Other than the swarf, there is no noticeable dirt under the play field. No coil dust. No nothing.

    **************************
    ***************************

    Here is a pic of the protector I made for my Big Game. When this protector was on you did not see any scratches, just like the Seawitch protector, but hanging in the air it is a different story. There are just hundreds of little bitty scratches.

    This was the first protector I made.

    IMG_9961 (resized).JPG

    If you look at the "Z" insert you can see the flameout. This sucker was deep. It was down close 1/16". Most Big Games are blown out bad around the bingo cards. Mine was in pretty good condition and I wanted to keep it that way. So I made the protector. And it played fast !. Really fast.

    What you cannot see in this pic are all of the checkmarks in the surface of the play field. They were all over the play field and they were dirty. Basically, close up, this play field, as nice as it was, it was just butt ugly. And I wanted it pretty. So it was torn down and the play field was restored and cleared.

    IMG_0701 (resized).JPG

    I did not put the protector back on after restoration. It plays just as fast now with out the protector as it did with the protector before restoration. I notice no difference in play action. I would like to have it back on but it will probably not happen. And the only reason for this is that these old Stern pins have a lot of star rollovers. With star rollovers, the only way you can install a protector and not destroy play action it to remove the star inserts and reset them to match the height of the protector.

    Can you play with the star rollovers not being reset to match the protector height? Yeah, you can but play action is going to suffer.

    When I did the restore I had to make a decision when i installed all new star rollovers. Big Game has 5 star rollovers. I had to decide if the new ones were going to level or would they be raised to match the protector. Since automotive 2-part clear is tough stuff I elected to reset the rollover to play field height and they were set and cleared over. I am a little more diligent about keeping this play field clean than I am with Seawitch.

    So, all of this to answer the OP's question of is there any down side to installing a protector?

    My experience says that there is no downside as long as you don't have any rollovers to deal with. Inlane wire rollover switches can be adjusted if needed. The protector takes all of the dirt. If you fail to change your ball regularly the protector takes the hit, not the play field. And my opinion is if you do a complete and thorough job of cleaning before you put the protector down you are not going to have an issue with dirt getting under the play field.

    And with some of these newer Stern games and way I have seen them dimple I would not think twice about laying down a protector. I will say the POTC and the new Beatles pin could be a challenge with that big spinning record in the middle of the play field. But you might be able to make a disk of protector material and put it on with some double backed tape.

    I see very little down side to putting on a protector. But that is me.

    -2
    #60 6 months ago

    Just think....all those scratches that are on the plastic, would have ended up on the playfield.

    #61 6 months ago
    Quoted from solarvalue:

    Love these, the best choice for keeping older games original.

    This literally makes no sense and contradicts itself. Let's put Grandma's couch covers on the game, just like it can from the factory originally.

    #62 6 months ago
    Quoted from Marvin:

    This literally makes no sense and contradicts itself. Let's put Grandma's couch covers on the game, just like it can from the factory originally.

    I generally don't make it a habit of sitting on my Playfield. But I think grandma did it because she paid good $$ for the couch and wanted it to look good and last a long time. Some people dont care about that. Which is fine, everyone's different.

    #63 6 months ago
    Quoted from Marvin:

    This literally makes no sense and contradicts itself. Let's put Grandma's couch covers on the game, just like it can from the factory originally.

    I admit that there are some who prefer this. But I'm not one of them.

    IMG_7538 (resized).JPG

    #64 6 months ago
    Quoted from Marvin:

    This literally makes no sense and contradicts itself. Let's put Grandma's couch covers on the game, just like it can from the factory originally.

    Couches are utilitarian...wear out buy another one. They ain't making the games we are protecting anymore. Not even close to a good comparison.

    #65 6 months ago
    Quoted from Marvin:

    This literally makes no sense and contradicts itself. Let's put Grandma's couch covers on the game, just like it can from the factory originally.

    Here's the deal: You find an old game, an early SS, and the playfield is very good with very little wear. You like the way it looks, so you don't want to touch it up and you don't want to clear it. You want to play it but you know that these older games only had a thin varnish, are old and damage easily. This is the perfect solution because it's reversible and keeps the old look of the original playfield.

    #66 6 months ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    Couches are utilitarian...wear out buy another one. They ain't making the games we are protecting anymore. Not even close to a good comparison.

    Pins are utilitarian. Tht provide a function of fun. Play them, use them. Enjoy them, don't obsess over toys.

    #67 6 months ago
    Quoted from Marvin:

    Pins are utilitarian. Tht provide a function of fun. Play them, use them. Enjoy them, don't obsess over toys.

    So when it wears out, you're okay throwing it into the trash like grandmas worn out couch? Guess I prefer saving history...not trashing it.

    #68 6 months ago

    Wax the playfield regularly and change the balls regularly. You’ll never need the protector. People posting pics of abused destroyed play fields as if that’s something that will happen in a maintained HUO game are being intentionally misleading.

    #69 6 months ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    So when it wears out, you're okay throwing it into the trash like grandmas worn out couch? Guess I prefer saving history...not trashing it.

    Maintain it and you won't wear it out in your house. And these games are literally built to be used up and thrown away. We are collecting them, that's not what they were designed for.

    #70 6 months ago
    Quoted from Marvin:

    Maintain it and you won't wear it out in your house. And these games are literally built to be used up and thrown away. We are collecting them, that's not what they were designed for.

    You are correct....just like 60s era spiderman comics were made to be read by kids...but would you throw those on the floor of your room now, or would you put it in an acid free sleeve to protect it from further damage? 50s era corvettes were made to drive...Park one now under a tree or in a locked garage? Your argument about what they were made for in the 60s to 80s is spurious and holds no merit.

    Most games from that era suffer from cupped inserts, flaking art, checked playfields...waxing and hoping isn't going to preserve the art. A protector will. I own 14 games...only 1 has a protector because it has damage already prior to my purchase. It's going on route, so I'd prefer with heavy use, it not be damaged further. I fail to see how that's so hard to understand.

    #71 6 months ago
    Quoted from Marvin:

    Maintain it and you won't wear it out in your house. And these games are literally built to be used up and thrown away. We are collecting them, that's not what they were designed for.

    I disagree somewhat. Cupped inserts, even in a home environment, can quickly cause wear/ damage. The only protector I have is on Old Chicago, it was in really nice condition and I wanted it to stay that way. I began to notice insert wear on Alladins Castle and decided to do my first ever clear coat job on it. While a lot of work it sure looks nice! A protector would have been the only other option.

    -4
    #72 6 months ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    You are correct....just like 60s era spiderman comics were made to be read by kids...but would you throw those on the floor of your room now, or would you put it in an acid free sleeve to protect it from further damage? 50s era corvettes were made to drive...Park one now under a tree or in a locked garage? Your argument about what they were made for in the 60s to 80s is spurious and holds no merit.
    Most games from that era suffer from cupped inserts, flaking art, checked playfields...waxing and hoping isn't going to preserve the art. A protector will. I own 14 games...only 1 has a protector because it has damage already prior to my purchase. It's going on route, so I'd prefer with heavy use, it not be damaged further. I fail to see how that's so hard to understand.

    I'd rather play a worn field then a protector. A worn field plays better.

    #73 6 months ago

    What I don't like about the protectors is u can't hear.the ball roll around ....

    #74 6 months ago
    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    I disagree somewhat. Cupped inserts, even in a home environment, can quickly cause wear/ damage. The only protector I have is on Old Chicago, it was in really nice condition and I wanted it to stay that way. I began to notice insert wear on Alladins Castle and decided to do my first ever clear coat job on it. While a lot of work it sure looks nice! A protector would have been the only other option.

    Cupped inserts don't cause wear. Raised or sunken one do. A cupped insert edges are still even with the field. They will affect ball travel though. Fortunately, on those old games not of the inserts were blank so they can be replaced. I'm not against the protector in all cases, but with the exception of unplayable bad games they just make the game okay worse. Putting them on new games is stupid.

    #75 6 months ago
    Quoted from Marvin:

    Cupped inserts don't cause wear. Raised or sunken one do. A cupped insert edges are still even with the field. They will affect ball travel though. Fortunately, on those old games not of the inserts were blank so they can be replaced. I'm not against the protector in all cases, but with the exception of unplayable bad games they just make the game okay worse. Putting them on new games is stupid.

    Ok sunken...My poor game suffered from both. When I started notice the wood wearing around the inserts, I stopped playing it and cleared it.

    #76 6 months ago
    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    What I don't like about the protectors is u can't hear.the ball roll around ....

    Are you telling me you can hear the ball rolling on your Metalica or Scared Stiff or Monster Bash or BSD? That makes me smile

    #77 6 months ago

    My parents have a standard WOZ that I sold them and I have a RR WOZ that I bought NIB with a play field protector already installed. I don't notice any game play difference between the two games but debris gets between the protector and the play field and it just doesn't look quite as nice in some areas as a sweet clear coat. Also, the ball has gotten hung up a few times due to the protector. I guess I would say I am neutral to negative on them. I have since bought NIB DI LE and NIB JJPOTC LE without protectors if that tells you anything.

    #78 6 months ago

    When I buy something to use in my home, HUO it never wears out.

    #79 6 months ago
    Quoted from Marvin:

    I'd rather play a worn field then a protector. A worn field plays better.

    No it doesn't, when a worn playfield affects the ball travel. I do agree with your above assertion that installing them on a new game properly maintained, is probably not necessary. I wouldn't call anyone 'stupid' for doing so, however.

    #80 6 months ago

    If you have a NIB game, I would play a couple of games first to see that the machine works like it should. If you are happy that the game is ok, only after that I would put the protector in. Otherwise the manufacturer might claim that the faulty operation of the pinball machine is due to the end-user messing around and installing a PF protector.

    Oh, and a definitive downside to me is the "sweaty look" that sometimes occurs under the protector. These are so-called Newton rings and I have yet to discover a proper way to get rid of them. I do not know if the occurring of Newton rings is only plaguing a single manufacturer of playfield protectors, or is this a more general phenomenon among manufacturers.

    #81 6 months ago
    Quoted from TRAMD:

    My parents have a standard WOZ that I sold them and I have a RR WOZ that I bought NIB with a play field protector already installed. I don't notice any game play difference between the two games but debris gets between the protector and the play field and it just doesn't look quite as nice in some areas as a sweet clear coat. Also, the ball has gotten hung up a few times due to the protector. I guess I would say I am neutral to negative on them. I have since bought NIB DI LE and NIB JJPOTC LE without protectors if that tells you anything.

    This. I bought a nice FH from a guy on here who did an excellent restore job and put one on it. Not a horrible idea in theory, just the practicality and reality do not match the theory for me. May end up cutting it out but for now leaving on.

    #82 6 months ago

    I'm looking at 2 pins of the same title with the same amount of plays, one has had a protector since day one, the other the Owner enjoyed.
    No brainer, I'm buying the one with a perfect play field, even if it costs more.
    When I get a new car, I put waterproof seat bags on the front seats. When time to sell the cars draw a premium and are easier to move.
    Buy a Beatles Platinum and play the snot out of it unprotected? Right, some people use Ferraris as daily drivers too.
    Not rich enough to pay 9000+ for a pinball machine and mess up the playfield, I don't care how "normal" dimpling is. I have only installed one on an old em and it has changed my way of thinking, I consider protectors to be one of the greatest innovations in the Pinball hobby/business ever.

    #83 6 months ago

    back to you original question of downside:
    I have several protectors on my games, downside is on some games, not all. yes the play is different you have to decide if that difference is better or worst.
    Love it on my Kiss and Xenon, Black knight, hate it on my STTNG.
    Either way I like the Glass finish it gives my games, without having to teardown and clear coat.

    #84 6 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Are you telling me you can hear the ball rolling on your Metalica or Scared Stiff or Monster Bash or BSD? That makes me smile

    lol...i wouldn't buy one for a game w factory clear on it....but I notice it every time I play Old Chicago. You hear the ball launch up the shooter lane, then silence.....

    I still prefer it to a beat up playfield though, so it's staying there.

    #85 6 months ago

    I have one on my home use Tron. Looks and plays great I often forget it's there. On location Stern games around here there are some of these. They tend to look scratched up or cloudy on location after a while but the beauty of course is 5 minutes they can be cut off/removed for a like new playfield again.

    Not the best, not the worst thing. Take your pick and form your opinion.

    #86 6 months ago
    Quoted from RVApinballer:

    They tend to look scratched up or cloudy on location after a while but the beauty of course is 5 minutes they can be cut off/removed for a like new playfield again.

    You guys that cut them off...yeah it is a quick way to resolve your issue. But if you take the time and the hassle of removing it in one piece you now have a pattern you can use to make a new one for cheap.

    -2
    #87 6 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    You guys that cut them off...yeah it is a quick way to resolve your issue. But if you take the time and the hassle of removing it in one piece you now have a pattern you can use to make a new one for cheap.

    Why do that when you can waste money on a new one?

    #88 6 months ago
    Quoted from f3honda4me:

    Wax the playfield regularly and change the balls regularly. You’ll never need the protector. People posting pics of abused destroyed play fields as if that’s something that will happen in a maintained HUO game are being intentionally misleading.

    I have four HUO pins in my collection and three of them have playfield protectors on them. The gameplay has been dramatically improved on all of them (plus they look great too).

    All of these HUO games have the original playfields except for one... the Rolling Stones. It has a fully assembled NOS Bally playfield that I removed from the original wooden Bally crate and installed in my pin. NOS but not without flaws in the insert heights and a few other minor cosmetic flaws. With the playfield protector installed (which took about 15 minutes to install) not only does it look better (almost like it is clear-coated) it also plays much better. Nice and smooth.

    This is the best option for these type of machines with less than perfect (but still super-nice) OEM playfields.

    I can always strip the playfield down and have it clear-coated. Nothing changes in that department. I can remove the protector in a matter of minutes and the game is exactly as it was when the protector was installed.

    Don't knock these until you try one. You are only risking the cost of the protector but if you are like me with some ultra-nice original pins that you don't want to have the playfields clear-coated at this time, it's just the ticket.

    #89 6 months ago

    Pulled one off of a Dialed In I bought. It had around 500 plays and it looked like complete shit. It was super hazy and had tons of scratches on it. It also looked ugly seeing all the cut outs and stuff. I tried polishing it a little and it didn't help at all. Decided to pull it off since it was also affecting the way the game played. Removed it and of course the playfield looks basically new, except it still had dimples on it. Not too surprising since the protector was super thin.

    Like others said, unless you are routing your game, don't do it.

    -3
    #90 6 months ago
    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    The gameplay has been dramatically improved on all of them (plus they look great too).

    As people begin to realize this is the best way to go we will see more and more used machines in the market that do not need expensive reproduction playfields. After all, the playfield is essentially the game itself, and anything the owner can do to preserve OEM goodness for a small price is self explanatory.

    Perhaps a few years down the line the aftermarket playfield manufacturers will turn their attention to EM and early SS Titles to make up for the lost business.

    #91 6 months ago
    Quoted from beefzap:

    Thanks for all the various comments and experiences.
    My main reason for considering this is for new Stern games to prevent playfield damage from day one. I would not put on an older B/W machine as I have not ever had one that had any damage/dimples/craters.
    My TWD looked not so good after ~100 plays and want to prevent that from happening on any new games.
    Sounds like about 50/50 as far as any negative effects.
    Getting BM66. Anyone installed one on a BM66? Installation easy? Which supplier did you use (not sure if there are multiple ones)?

    The biggest thing with that game was re-leveling the turn table. Easier with two people.
    That one didn't have a lot that needed to be taken out.

    Buy one, try it. If you don't like it take it back out, worse comes to worse you loose a 100 bucks.
    play 50-100 games put a light coat of wax. after that it's really hard to notice any kind of difference In my opinion. That is, unless your looking for stuff to be different then who knows what you'll find. The only things I've noticed are that it plays slightly faster. That and you won't hear the ball rolling noise, which is hard to notice with the glass on anyway.

    Like the other guy said to, if you don't like the way it looks after X amount of plays. Take it out, not a big deal.

    #92 6 months ago

    I hate the feel of play with them. Played several machines with protectors and the whole thing slides around when you hit the flippers or the ball moves funny if it has any spin on it. It’s literally just a sheet of plastic freely laying on the playfield floating around. The movement is minor but it’s still movement. I’d say out of 20 pins with protectors 19 of them felt weird to me.

    #93 6 months ago

    Question. I have a NOS Bally playfield that was clear coated OVER some patches of mylar (preventative around the pops I guess). I am contemplating putting a pf protector on for that reason. Would the mylar "lip" of clear might get worn/damaged by the ball and the protector needed?

    #94 6 months ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    Question. I have a NOS Bally playfield that was clear coated OVER some patches of mylar (preventative around the pops I guess). I am contemplating putting a pf protector on for that reason. Would the mylar "lip" of clear might get worn/damaged by the ball and the protector needed?

    I have those mylar rings around my pops that are buried under several coats of clear. I play this pin with no protector. I don't you have any trouble with a protector either on or off.

    #95 6 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I have those mylar rings around my pops that are buried under several coats of clear. I play this pin with no protector. I don't you have any trouble with a protector either on or off.

    Thanks for the reply. Is there a raised edge (meaning the mylar is not totally below the clear) on your playfield in those areas? Mine does have a small raised edge. Cleared by Bill Davis a long time ago.

    #96 6 months ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    Thanks for the reply. Is there a raised edge (meaning the mylar is not totally below the clear) on your playfield in those areas? Mine does have a small raised edge. Cleared by Bill Davis a long time ago.

    I laid down 2-3 extra coats of clear to bury them. Even if you can feel a slight bump under your clear it is not going to be a problem. Unless you are going to taking a bunch of sandpaper to your clear for no reason your clear is going to be around for a long time.

    If it worries you go to the art supply store, Hobby Lobby. etc. Or Amazon and get a package of Frisket and a compass. Trace some circles on the Frisket and cut them out and lay them down on top of your clear and on top of the ones that concern you. Frisket is temporary and can be peeled at anytime.

    #97 6 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I laid down 2-3 extra coats of clear to bury them. Even if you can feel a slight bump under your clear it is not going to be a problem. Unless you are going to taking a bunch of sandpaper to your clear for no reason your clear is going to be around for a long time.

    Still worried about chipping like I've seen on drain hole edges or scoop edges. I appreciate the feedback though!

    #98 6 months ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    Still worried about chipping like I've seen on drain hole edges or scoop edges. I appreciate the feedback though!

    I C. you are worried about chipping on the edges. That is a valid concern. THen Frisket is your best option. You lay it down and you will not see it. If it gets beat up then peel it up and replace.

    #99 6 months ago

    I’ve installed 4 of them. My review is generally positive, but you need to know the following:
    -Wax it! It is unnoticeable with a few coats of way.
    - long install. You end up taking a lot of stuff off, you may want to allocate a lot of time to focus.
    - be prepared to shave it down. 2 of mine did not fit right out of the box.

    #100 6 months ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    Yes lots people do when they see how the balls beat the shit out of these new style PFs

    I hope you don't mean dimples. If some nut job ever looks at my pins and says "Look at the dimples. These are beat to shit." they'll be mocked and 86'd.

    I operate lots of new pins. They get played probably 10x more than pins in a home environment. Normal cleanings and they all look great.

    Just can't wrap my head around dudes who are afraid of the pinball touching the playfield, especially on modern pins with auto clear.

    I can maybe see a use for this product if the inserts are so cupped it affects ball travel, or for dudes who are afraid of dimples, but other than that I'm at a loss.

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