The Multimorphic P3 seems the biggest leap forward in a while. I've never played one so I can't tell you if it's an enjoyable leap forward, but it's certainly doing something new and interesting.

Pinball has always grown by leaps and bounds.

I think the next year is going to see a leap again.

LTG : )

Have you actually played Jurassic park?

i_got_yer_innovation (resized).jpg

So many cool things they could be doing with magnets... i feel like creativity is gone. I want another jump shot! NO FEAR style

I’m new to this but have posted the same question before .Now that I’m neck deep in this there’s room in these cabinets to drop the playfield a few inches that would allow an upper area to use at will without having to put in a upper playfield that takes away usable playfield space .Does this make sense ?

By the way check out what my man from Seattle is doing with his Fight Club home brew .He has a tread in pinside .Go through it n see what’s he’s doing with a drone playfield it’s outstanding !

How bout that for inovation !

Check his tread out .Inovation will come from home brews as the big shots won’t change until they’re threatened .

I really respect this guy .Hes on a mission !

Lloyd has spoken!!

I haven’t been in the hobby forever, but most can tell you innovation has rewarded companies with bankruptcy.
Stern has pumped out the same exact shit for about 20 years and most pinheads buy them before they ever lay eyes on it!

Look at automobiles.

People don’t want “new” they want safe, reliable and familiar.
Anything new has crashed, burned and sucked up all the money with it and then gets left with a dedicated cult following. That’s with any hobby.

That being said, after innovation (Williams) shut down its pinball division for lack of profitability (mismanagement) in 1999, killing Pin2k, pinball stayed the same. Until JJP popped out the revolutionary (ie common sense) idea of an LCD in 2010 then we finally saw some innovation. Pirates had some amazing features, and it was the first game in ages that you could put a 6 player game on, which is notable and novel. We all saw how that went.
The next big thing, which is code for: dumb common sense FINALLY being integrated YEARS after it became a staple product, will be the integration of internet connectivity. Most people will inevitably hate this feature and bitch up a storm until it dies and then they will cry about how amazing it was and how it all ended too soon!

I don’t hate the innovation. My collection is themed around the novel and incredible ideas pinball has had. I enjoy them immensely, but part of that uniqueness includes the fact that most folks don’t get it, don’t like it and find it aggravating, boring or pointless. The Next Big Thing™ will be very cool, and very unwelcome, hopefully it earns money for operators!

*I didn’t forget about Multimorphic, those guys are awesome, truly pushing the limits. Unfortunately they’re like Tesla, they’ve been “othered” very badly. Hopefully they see mainstream acceptance for their cutting edge product soon. I’d love to put one in my arcade but alas the price point is far beyond my budget!

Option C : I don't care.

Multimorphic has turned pinball innovation on its head. If the pinball public REALLY wanted true progression in pinball they would be the sales leader.
This is not the case, so I can only deduce that the pinball market doesn't actually want THAT much to change.

Well put and I’m a big Lloyd fan ! Would you agree the missing piece is having a 365 days a year running factory? Meaning while they profit on singular pins there’s big down time with making these in between .It seems to me that work booms then layoffs so instead of a constant workforce working they’re way up the ladder an very good at what they do you have a revolving door of workers that are basically trainees time n time again.Its a unique situation because your product is something that a vast % of people can’t afford .So what’s the answer ?

Thanks for the shout out Kkoss24 ! Funny thing about that cam’d lower playfield is that at first I thought I was innovating but then found out kaboom already had fully implemented such a lower playfield in his Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy homebrew, which he’s currently converting to pinball 2000 style.
In the end I was lucky he had because he set me straight after struggles with web cam lag.

Homebrew is nice in that there’s no deadlines and you set the budget. Kaboom has done some crazy mechs — rotating disc with 3 pop bumpers?! He’s extended the coverage of the Pin2000 monitor effect across most of the upper playfield band I believe the lower as well. His divertors that create all kinds of shot paths are insane. Double ball feeds from trough to each inlane. Bunch of other stuff..

zacaj has done some crazy cool ball save ideas I love.

Sonic’s loop-de-loo (ok, technically done once on pinball magic).

I think pinball companies to some degree have to reuse a lot of what makes pinball pinball, and why we enjoy it. But usually there’s a few elements that are fresh or a bit innovative that they could afford to develop and throw in. Cracking clear coat for example. Mega-crater dimpling .. they’ve designed machines to continue evolving even after off the line and fully built!

Kidding aside, there’s not enough money in it to justify going all out on innovation vs staying fairly safe and taking baby steps. Unless you’re multimorphic. Then you go all out, and take a leap over A chasm and nail it!

Didn’t Gottlieb love to add a separate set of flipper buttons to everything? I always hated that. Just more complicated.
The ONLY purpose of extra buttons is literally for you to take your hands off the flipper buttons and thus increase the chances of you draining your ball, but it’s disguised as skill.

Look up staged flippers. It’s a great technique that I use a lot since I learned about it!

I haven’t played Heist but pausing a game is a great idea. A way to catch your ball and walk away? Or save it and come back later? PLEASE!!! It seems I always get a ripping game going right before leaving for work!

These innovation threads always end up the same... because people don't give the real innovators real props.
Multimorphic has been mentioned several times... in many threads; yet... "innovation" is still considered missing by many.
I can only assume the people asking the question can't really define innovation.

Stern only believes that innovation means more money per title lines their pocket. Cost innovation.
JJP... idk; how much money can they ask per machine (regardless of their bom cost)?
Spooky; they seem to be innovating on themes right now. (not that that's a bad thing).
American Pinball; still innovating on building a business model.
CCG; re-releasing games with beagle-boards as the brain is not innovation.
Deeprot (no; that isn't a typo... the rott is real)... innovating on shipping their vaporware.
DutchPinball - lol

I haven't mentioned Multimorphic; because they appear to be the only ones really innovating across the board. Innovating Software, Hardware, Games, technical support, warranty, there is just so much going on in that company you really owe it to yourself to really set down with the platform. Alas; I can already hear the "but"s coming from those that really haven't taken the time to see what they are up to.

Mb I enjoy your tread immensely and anyone that takes a peek will be hooked your doing a great thing I’m a big fan of acting on your dreams .It’s weird I’m 50 and all the hobbies I had died out for some reason or another but this one is different .Just owning a couple and the help I get from people I’ve never met is incredible .Working on them sometimes is as fun as playing .Ill he following buddy n learning along the way thanks !

Love me a good innovation thread - gives me an opportunity to link to this classic Multimorphic video (check out the booj):

Too many innovations to mention in the P3 but Gerry does a pretty good job of listing them here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/p3-features

However, I think it's greatest innovation is how it allows anyone to create their own pinball game. A whole new era of indie pinball games is coming, made possible by the P3.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-crazy-mansion-by-the-pinball-amigos pinballrockstar

Fair bit of innovation going on in this thread. Shit just the stuff this backbox does is freakin amazing, let alone all the mechs on the playfield. Yes I’m a fanboy

There are a few games with playfields sections that move up and down, such as zaccaria time machine and doctor who.

https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=3494

I think it's just the big display screen that is a large portion of the playfield that many players just don't gravitate to.

If you stuff a bunch of multimorohic's advancements into a game with a more traditional style playfield, I think it might turn some heads.

Those are all neat options, but what people truly want to see in pinball are “holy shit, that’s cool!” mechs & features. Watching something living & magical happen on the playfield. The MM castle interactivity & explosion...Addams’ Thing grabbing the ball...Dr. Who’s Time Expander & its 3 level reveal...Stern’s POTC ship getting destroyed & sinking...the closest thing in a decade is probably Stern JP’s T-Rex - a really well animated, exciting “living” interactive creature (although it’s not on the Pro lol).

LEDs & LCDs are OK, but expected in a modern electronic product. We want to see something absolutely unexpected that we want to then see happen repeatedly cuz it’s so cool.

Can’t answer the poll because I haven’t played TMNT.

I know many would disagree, but I believe Alien was on the right path for new innovation with the amazing cut scenes , missions, and blend of music/sound effects/lighting effects. The sound system is also spectacular.
Oh well.

Magna slings on GB were a pretty wild (and risky) addition to a premium model game. That’s one of the last times I remember thinking I was seeing something “new” in the hobby.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I can’t agree more!

The magnet holding multiball thingy on the p3 system had me go "wow" when I saw it. You shoot up three balls into a loop and they are kept hanging in the air. When all three balls are locked they are ejected by the magnets. Awesome.

I like Gerry, he is a nice guy and the P3 is a neat idea. But... continually calling it the most innovative thing ever doesn't make it true.

Just putting a new idea, or "innovation", into practice doesn't mean it fits the bill when people ask for new things in pinball.

All that said, do I know what people in pinball want? Hell no. My own true level device was a flop by any measure.

Limiting to think of innovation only as such when it becomes a standard. Often people aren’t ready to embrace change, new things. Short-sightedness or unpopularity doesn’t mean something isn’t innovative, just not popular. The interaction of virtual objects with a physical object p2k or ball tracking in P3 are indeed innovations - new variants on play and/or mechanics.

Perhaps the clarifier is when people like the innovations they see.

Multi-ball been around since the 50's, see Beat the Clock, Balls a Poppin and Star Jet.

Firepower was first with lane shift though.

I think the Pepper's Ghost effect had so much potential but was wildly underused. That's what turned me off from STH Prem. I love the idea of the projector but was afraid of its utilization, and that's the central feature of that game. With GB, they could've had ghosts everywhere doing different things, but they put in just one toy, it has a few ghosts, and that's about it. Coder was then probably pushed onto the next project and never got to fully explore its' true potential.

What do you want? People always say they want innovation but never buy into it. There has been plenty of innovation and most of them failed. You could say Stern is innovative with their Spike system. Less wiring and less parts. How do people respond? Games are too light and thus inferior quality. Stern has done plenty of other innovations - projections, interactive toppers, magna slings, etc. Can't say I like any of it, though. JJP tried to be innovative with cell phone features in DI. That didn't go well. P3 came out with something truly innovative but it's not what most pinheads want.

To be fair, the $10K+ price of admission has prevented a lot of us from even having played one.

Would love to try it out but I've never even seen one, that's my issue.

Dimple-proof playfields would be a fantastic innovation.....

LOL how else do you define “innovation” ? The Webster’s definition is exactly “a new idea”

Um, P3 also has this solved.

This. I get the cost of P3, and the platform itself is fantastic. I played Lexy along with the asteroids game before and enjoyed them. Heist looks fantastic. The only thing keeping me back is the price point. I’m not saying the system is overpriced, just out of my current range.

Agree, regarding GB. DI used it to GREAT effect. There are several modes that use it directly, if I recall correctly.

So did Interflip Dragoon.

This is I think the reason a lot of people are down on P3. It’s a hard sell - that is a LOT of money for a game you’re not sure about, certainly for one you’ve never played.

Also, as much as I’m a strong believer in P3, I don’t think they really had the right mix until Heist.

Lexy is cool, great first product - Cosmic Cart racing is an AMAZING game, and it has the awesome
Magnetic lock system, but it shortchanged the casual player in terms of common pinball “world under glass” stuff. There aren’t any toys, decals, anything that really gives you a sense of where you are, what you’re playing. The screen does that, and to great effect, but just looking at the playfield you’re like “huh. It’s some tubes?” It does require playing it for real. I do think they should add some toys though

Not the first time a rocking playfield has been introduced

IJ's path of adventure comes to mind.