Here's an innovative idea. A legitimate warranty. One year parts and labor.

There will be no innovation.

Pinball is flippers batting a ball around a play area. If you are looking for innovation, find a new hobby.

What is it with pinball? People get into pinball - an 80 year old game that’s flippers batting a ball around - and decide it’s not exciting or innovative enough and insist manufacturers drastically “reimagine” a game that people buy based partly on nostalgia.

It’s like someone getting really into fishing but complaining that it isn’t boat racing.

People say they want something new and different, but most people get uncomfortable quick and just really want familiarity and nostalgia. This happens everywhere else outside of pinball...

Sports - Why doesn't the NFL change? They make money hand over fist, and when something "new" comes along like the XFL it fails because no one knows the players and it's not something popular enough to discuss with other people.

Music - People: "Why doesn't anyone make ORIGINAL music anymore?!" Indpendent/Soundcloud/Whatever you want to call it hip-hop artists: "Here give this a try" People: "No not like that, I meant why don't people make music that sounds what I've listened to for the past 25 years!"

Food/Beer: "Craft beer? These hipsters and their IPAs! Can't beat my trusty Bud Light". Compare the line at a McDonalds to any of the independent/smaller restaurants on the same block at lunch time.

TVs: Remember 3D TVs? Curved TVs? HD-DVD? All dead products that no one bought.

People fear and hate change. I'm not saying I'm any different ha, but people will always gravitate to what's familiar. P3 is probably the biggest risk pinball has taken in years. I'm not privy to their sales or financials, so I don't know how we'll it's selling or how popular it is, but I'll tell you I've only seen one once in person at a show maybe 2 years ago, and never on location, where as I can find any new JJP/Stern game within minutes of my house on the day of release to play. Familiar sells, innovation is a risk. Wish it was the opposite.

It's a strange conundrum. Nothing is innovative to half the people, and the other people think things that have already been done decades ago would be innovative now.

I think you're on to something here. I also find myself much less concerned with technical innovation these days and more with design innovation. The toys and screens are neat, but ultimately I want to play a game that shoots like something I haven't played before. Some good recent examples of what I mean is Stranger Things and Radical (ha). There is some "innovation" in Stranger Things that's neat...the projector, the UV stuff (cost, etc. aside), the ramp that comes down to reveal the toy (which is cool when you can make the shot). All of these are "new" for pinball, but ultimately I just felt like I was playing a fan layout game with a target bank in the middle, and I've played that game ALOT.

On the flip side, I just picked up a Radical that honestly I didn't even really intend to keep, but the layout is new (to me, not age wise) and the game doesn't really feel like anything else out there. It's 30 years old, but still felt fresher to me than playing Stranger Things. I have appreciated some of the newer Stern games for the same reason...JP, TWD, Maiden, even Deadpool...nothing really innovative about them toy/tech wise, but they just feel like something I haven't played before, and I'll take that all day.

I like it as is and it works so yeah better sound and displays and all that but I'm fine a couple spinners, 2 or 3 ramps some drops, I have no issue with code in modern pins its great. If there's one department where I wish they would wake up its in themes. Most of them suck.
Jesus H.
Wonka to The Terminator '84
Hot Wheels to Blade Runner
TMNT to The Road Warrior
In a way its a good thing because I'd be broke.

It seems like theres this need to have everything modernized with big screens, wifi, cameras, mics, etc.

It all started with our telephones, then happened with our computers and TVs.

I play pinball to escape all of that. Its core elements are good enough and it's been that way for a long time.

Just think of a layout and ramps like WH20. Or all the diverters and cool shots of Congo (and a volcano shooting the ball out), or all of the unique shots and toys of TAF or TZ. Wait a minute? What's that? What's that you say? Those games are 30 years old? So, to answer your question, while programming has become more advanced, the physical aspects of the game have gone backwards unless you want to pay 10K+ for game from JJP. But unlike W/B games, those games have the personality of a log.

My first experience with a modern Stern, was a used Stern Star Trek Pro (2012) and I was blown away with the ammount of innovation in there. The third button is actually used in play and was new to me at the time. The LEDs were great and I think really improve upon the look and feel of the game. As far as gameplay goes, the back loop actually goes back behind the playfield which is really cool. The ship launches balls back at you magnetically. The ability to lock a ball behind the 3rd flipper to start a mode is 100% innovation and a great enhanced feature. I have never played it but the premium's laser light show looked pretty cool too. I miss my machine but there were so many things that were new to me on that machine.

Shot Multipliers have been around for a long time, but GOT & SW took it to the next level.

They were rewarded with tears aboot pinball including points & having to push a button a button on a fucking pinball machine FFS.

I really want to see more mechanical stuff happening. A big display doesn't really impress me much.

I had my first "big display" game with Stranger Things. I have to admit that I loved seeing scenes from the show. I love how the more you did to make it through the mode, the more you got to see of the scene. That was cool. But, I'm with you. I play pinball to see cool mechanical stuff happening on the playfield above all else.

The question is what can you reliably do mechanically to really impress people these days?

More complexity to mechanical pieces on the PF I guess could be interesting but what is left to do? Ships have sunk and rocked, balls shoot into trunks and hit by a hammer under a the PF, whats left? Bring ball walkers back? Do you guys just want a little or like a mousetrap/rube goldberg situation?

I'm not sure what I want, but I'll know when I see it. Hasn't that always been the case in pinball? I'm a pinball consumer, not a designer. So, all I can say to them is "impress me". Before TAF came out, did anyone ever say that they wanted to have magnets under the playfield to randomize a ball or a hand to take the ball off the playfield? I doubt it. But when we saw it for the first time, it was pretty f'n sweet.

One of my favorite things about classic Bally games was the repeating of some features. When stuff worked, you would eventually see the exact same feature on another game. It's flippers, balls, and smacking things around for fun. And the next game released will include flippers, balls, and you will be smacking stuff around.

But don't worry. I'm not jaded. I still love it. Every once in a while, a programmer turns those things into magic. All of a sudden the shot you want (need!) becomes the only shot in the game. There is danger if you miss, and reward if you hit it. And all of a sudden the sounds, sights, and shots come together. When they do that, it isn't innovation, but I sure want to play it.

The big display is fun for a bit, but with a home use game the scenes get old really quick. I flip past all the Elvira scenes in EHoH already. They are just too long and flipping past them keeps the game moving.

I agree with everyone who mentioned more innovative mechanisms. I think that’s what many of us would appreciate the most.

That isn't the displays fault, it's the programing; same as DMD era stuff.

weird, i wouldn't peg you for a Road Warrior fan!

I think some of the companies striving to make two games a year will help.

I know outside of Stern it hasn't happened yet. And won't over night. They do seem to be working in that direction.

Exciting times ahead.

LTG : )

There are potentially endless possibilities in pinball innovation, it's just that many people don't want stuff like p3 multimorphic. They like the stuff that they're used to. Probably a major reason that there hasn't been a huge amount of innovation in these past years is for that exact reason.

Prices continue rise for the "same thing," so there really much incentive to change.

I'll bet when color TV came out people were satisfied for many decades before LCD became a thing.

Can't predict the future. I'd be willing to bet we may see innovation with things that haven't even been invented yet. Or maybe there is technology that isn't affordable yet. Like, we could have the pinball do....this....but that will raise the price of the machine from $6,000 to $45,000

How bout a game that has the ball purposely smack the glass

That’ll get your blood flowin

I feel like enough of my games already do that

I don't want innovation I want the TZ upper playfield to be brought back

Powerfield so great.

Basically have that with Wh20 although they say it wasn't made that way

Innovation in an anachronistic hobby. That's funny.

Kinda like asking why laser tag isn't part of a Renaissance Fair

Don't give them any ideas! Places are already over run with Pirates.

I'd just like to see someone come up with a stand-up target that absorbs impact and doesn't rocket the ball against the glass or down the drain.....I've searched all weekend and found zilch,zero, nothing to be had

Agree with all the above! Map mode on Roadshow was great, except for the lack of randomness (now changed thanks to new code).

There should still be an optional training mode to learn game rules, practice shots, etc without tying it to a high score. Now that we have LCD screens, there is no excuse.

Add Comet center ramp to the list

Vari-targets

Software is where there's the most room for innovation right now. At some point the manufacturers will move past the crappy web animations.

A triple spinning disk would be the greatest innovation of all time.

Right. Plenty of innovation using the internet. You could download updates or special game modes, check game stats/settings using app, compete with others online, etc. You could even have Stern support connect to your game to diagnose faults. Problem is few people are asking for features like this and what we have now works fine for most people most of the time. Plus, it takes a lot of time and resources just to code the gameplay.

Pinball doesn’t have enough of a market to truly inspire “leaps and bounds” style innovation. R&D is expensive and takes quite a while to generate a return on investment. There just isn’t enough large growth sales potential to justify that risk in pinball. That is the reality. If sales of pinball machines were equal to those in the automobile industry or video game industries then you would see innovation.

However, re-using more of the existing design elements of the past in new and interesting ways could be interesting. But again someone has to take the risk with their money to do that.

Flipper, targets, other balls, magnets.. all present. Can you explain how to fully realize the concept you're describing a bit more?

I had an idea years ago for a headset that would project 3D animations onto a real pinball playfield. So you'd see explosions and stuff as you play. It is possible but very expensive to develop. There's certainly a lot more that pinball can do, more than ever before I'd say, but where's the money gonna come from?

Pinball public doesn’t want to pay 10k for a game. If P3 was in line with a stern premium, I’d already own one. It’s a shame that awesome innovation costs so much.

Wrong answer. The right answer is: bring back vari-targets.

so take the lower 6 targets on a raven and figure out how to put vari-targets in their place. that would be an engineering feat of mind boggling proportion.

White Water?

It’s a great idea except it’s impossible to do with zero lag, therefore it’s a non starter. Unless you can change the laws of
Time,
Space, and speed.

That WOULD be innovative !