(Topic ID: 70866)

Is the ST LE Bashing Simply P@##& Envy? Or Something Else?


By Aussiepinwiz

5 years ago



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  • 159 posts
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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Hwawonyu
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#1 5 years ago

Enough already!

There's been so much whining and criticism over the last 2 months on Pinside about Start Trek LE.

Is it just pinball envy from those who can't afford one but really want one? Or something else?

This is a very expensive hobby. Accept it and get over it.

OK, so there's no LCD. Who said there would be one?
OK, so it's a few weeks late. Hello? Is that the end of the world?
OK, so its star field projector doesn't beam the player up to the Enterprise!
Some people need to take a deep breathe and get a life!
OK, so the Stern marketing department could do better.
They got our attention didn't they?

The overwhelming majority of people who have played the Pro think it's a great game.
I thought the flow was amazingly good.
The LE will almost certainly be a great game.

Isn't pinball more about the thrill of the game play and not the unrealistic expectations about the gimmicks?

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#2 5 years ago

I'm really looking forward to playing the LE but I think Stern brought this upon themselves when they raised the price on this one. People were expecting Sterns best ever pin since it's Stern most expensive pin.

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

People were expecting Sterns best ever pin since it's Stern most expensive pin.

They were?

18
#4 5 years ago

I'm getting an LE hopefully delivered next week.
I think it is way overpriced feature wise compared to the pro.
I decided I had to have one after spending 2 hours on the ones at expo.
Premium and Pro artwork aren't for me so if I wanted one, an LE was the only option.
I think the starfield laser thing looks retarded [apologies to the PC crowd] but could be wrong when I see it in person. What starfield goes around in circles?

I don't think it's an envy thing. I just think it's disappointment in the huge price hike with no LCD and the herd mentality sometimes around here.
You have to filter that stuff out and buy what you like!!

#5 5 years ago

Well, high expectations at the bare minimum.
You want more money than usual? Ok. For what?
I'll wait to play it before I judge it but this has been an uphill fight from day one.

#6 5 years ago

Bashing started when Stern raised prices for really no reason.

imposed punishment from passionate pinballers is how I see it.

Will Stern learn and adapt? Can't see that happening too soon...especially with Superman coming next.

#7 5 years ago

Yeah...let's wait until someone actually gets their hands on it and sends a GOOD video. I still have hope....

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Bashing started when Stern raised prices for really no reason.
imposed punishment from passionate pinballers is how I see it.
Will Stern learn and adapt? Can't see that happening too soon...especially with Superman coming next.

I agree with you in terms of the reason for the majority of the bashing. Of course the price increase on the pro and premium models were very small over what MET cost.

#9 5 years ago

Honestly, ever since Stern starting seperating pro's and premiums (particularly metallica, that hammer really blocks your view), I like playing the pro more. I don't care about gimmicks and fluff, gimme fun pinball and non-stop action.

I don't think features are the real issues, it's unfinished code. If Stern isn't careful, they're going to see their home market start to dry up.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from Aussiepinwiz:

Is it just pinball envy from those who can't afford one but really want one? Or something else?

Something else!

#11 5 years ago

Its a money thing 13.5k for a pin........

Hope you enjoy your STLE tho

#12 5 years ago

When I ordered the LE, I only chose that version because I couldn't stand the artwork and translites on the Pro / Premium models and I really liked the idea of a real back glass. I don't feel the extra cost of the LE was warranted, but was willing to pay it for a new SR ST. And it will likely cost me more because I may have Pinball Refinery do some work on it.

In my case Stern "marketing" worked, but I have a hard time imagining another theme that would make enough difference to me to go the LE route again, especially at a $3K premium.

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from Aussiepinwiz:

The overwhelming majority of people who have played the Pro think it's a great game.
I thought the flow was amazingly good.
The LE will almost certainly be a great game.

A great title is about the way the game plays and the flow. The pro has proven this and the LE is just icing on the cake. Now that it is actual being delivered and people are playing it, people will begin to see the value. If they don't then there is always the pro version. It is interesting hearing from several pro owners who already want the LE. That should say it all. Not that the pro is lacking, but you only live once(;

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

When I ordered the LE, I only chose the LE because I couldn't stand the artwork and translites on the Pro / Premium models and I really liked the idea of a real back glass. I don't feel the extra cost of the LE was warranted, but is was willing to pay it for a new SR ST. And it will likely cost me more because I may have Pinball Refinery do some work on it.
In my case Stern "marketing" worked, but I have a hard time imagining another theme that would make enough difference to me to go the LE route again, especially at a $3K premium.

Exactly. I really hope they dont do Iron Maiden any time soon. I would be on the street selling plasma. Damn LE is worth more than both my cars and boat together.

-1
#15 5 years ago

I don't understand, this is the first pin with any kind of projector that I know of. Even if its not that great at least a new idea. How about the cabinet? lights built into the side's and an illuminated Enterprise on the rails another new addition not attempted before. WOZ LE 8000, MET LE 8000, people asking 12,000 to 15,000 for AC/DC BIBLE yet 9000 for me anyway in Canada for Star Trek LE is not a ridiculous price. The only reason I can come up with for someone bashing ST LE is that they spent there cash on a different pin and now regret it or can't afford it in the first place. Maybe they just hate it for a reason I'll never understand, main thing is WHO CARES I can't wait to get mine and I couldn't be happier with what I've seen thus far.

#16 5 years ago

Lighten up with your whining!.......I love my Ac/dc premium with the music, light show, etc.....it looks like ST will be even better with the light show and such....

I'm waiting to play it myself, because I had an LE pre order and might be in for premium just because it looks so great and its SR, and if the code gets completed I'm thinking on selling my SM, plus I love the theme!

So you need to take a deep breath, it will be ok......

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from zod:

No disrespect meant to anyone. PEACE

Dude, you are kidding right, you have become a joke....PEACE, no disrespect meant.....

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from zod:

It is 100% bashing caused mainly by people who do not have the cash to buy one, thusly they knock it. I think a lot of people who in my opinion wasted nearly the same amount on WOZ and now have regret it bash Star Trek LE. I'm going to get a lot of hate for that one but I think its true as Star Trek theme is way cooler than WOZ. Finally there is a Stern hate that comes from the W/B purists, and while they might agree that some Stern pin's are pretty good the bias is always there. Just my opinion, that's all. No disrespect meant to anyone. PEACE

I have a STTNG, I don't see the need to spend 10k to buy the new version (3.5k STTNG)(13.5k STLE)

16
#19 5 years ago

I believe, Stern thought they left money on the table for MET LE, so what they did was make more numbers and charge more for ST LE. But the end result people see that ST LE is not going to sell out so they see it will not be another BIBLE or Tron LE. People see that you can still buy XM LE and Avenger LE and TF LE NIB or buy the used ones for a $1500 or $2000 discount. Add to that people are getting WoZ or had got Met LE or will get MMR just might be less demand or less money left over for another Stern that has no LCD or no color DMD yet costs almost the same money as MMR.

I believe ST LE was in trouble from day one, not that it was a bad pin, but costing $7700 was a lot, making 799 was too much, better to leave them wanting more thats the key. Then on top of that they delayed shipping long enough for MMR to steal a march on them. I know MMR is still a long way off, but people see $8k has to come from somewhere and if they don't think ST LE will sell for near that on resale maybe that comes into play. If someone was on the fence probably will wait and see, or just give Stern the finger (much like Stern has done to previous buyers with unfinished code now more than a year past on XM).

Stern is getting a nice blow back from screwing us with shoddy code and price increases for too long.

IMO

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

I have a STTNG, I don't see the need to spend 10k to buy the new version

Well for one thing it wont break down as often and you wont have to deal with left cannon optos or J21 or......

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I believe ST LE was in trouble from day one, not saying it was a bad pin, but costing $7700 was a lot, making 799 was too much, have to leave them wanting more thats the key. Then on top of that they delayed shipping long enough for MMR to steal a march on them. I know MMR is still a long way off, but people see $8k has to come from somewhere and if they don't think ST LE will sell for near that as I don't think since I don't think it will sell out. Therefor if someone was on the fence probably will wait and see, or just give Stern the finger (much like Stern has done to previous buyers with still unfinished code now more than a year past on XM).

Stern is getting a nice blow back from screwing us with shoddy code and price increases for too long.

IMO

Bingo.........very concise and spoken for the truth!

The $7800 and 799 for the LE without justification imo was the ultimate middle finger money grab that leaves them where they are at now.....all that said, I'd be in for a premium all day every day if they finish the code like Ac/dc..

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

I have a STTNG, I don't see the need to spend 10k to buy the new version (3.5k STTNG)(13.5k STLE)

Its 13 000 for you? Well that would make a difference as to whether or not I would buy one.

#23 5 years ago

What's the best price out there on the LE that anyone's realistically heard? Just curious

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from Redeyes:

What's the best price out there on the LE that anyone's realistically heard? Just curious

The guy who picked up the one on ebay for a little over 7k the other day. Not sure about price from distributors.

Edit: Here you go:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stle-on-ebay-with-no-reserve

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from Aussiepinwiz:

Enough already!
There's been so much whining and criticism over the last 2 months on Pinside about Start Trek LE.
Is it just pinball envy from those who can't afford one but really want one? Or something else?
This is a very expensive hobby. Accept it and get over it.
OK, so there's no LCD. Who said there would be one?
OK, so it's a few weeks late. Hello? Is that the end of the world?
OK, so its star field projector doesn't beam the player up to the Enterprise!
Some people need to take a deep breathe and get a life!
OK, so the Stern marketing department could do better.
They got our attention didn't they?
The overwhelming majority of people who have played the Pro think it's a great game.
I thought the flow was amazingly good.
The LE will almost certainly be a great game.
Isn't pinball more about the thrill of the game play and not the unrealistic expectations about the gimmicks?

images-7-753.jpeg 11 KB

yep, when you pay close to 8k for a pin, you want much much more.

and yeah, sometimes i do express my point of view. public forum expect different opinions!

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Well for one thing it wont break down as often and you wont have to deal with left cannon optos or J21 or......

Don't blame the pin, blame the owner

The only problems it had was its previous owner who put a diode on a switch backwards & tie back wire, been rock solid ever since, 3 years on, going great, loving the colour dmd also

#27 5 years ago

While I would have liked to have held out for the Premium, it honestly didn't look like enough additional features to justify the cost. I might have to eat my hat eventually, but I'm still really glad I got my Pro. I love the theme, and I love the machine. I even appreciate the new lockdown bar. The only real negatives are the cheap-ass playfield legs and the stupid stickers (barely rubbed one on a door moving it upstairs and it tore the shit out of one of the edges)

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from ignusfast:

While I would have liked to have held out for the Premium, it honestly didn't look like enough additional features to justify the cost. I might have to eat my hat eventually, but I'm still really glad I got my Pro. I love the theme, and I love the machine. I even appreciate the new lockdown bar. The only real negatives are the cheap-ass playfield legs and the stupid stickers (barely rubbed one on a door moving it upstairs and it tore the shit out of one of the edges)

What stickers?

#29 5 years ago

I'm sure he's talking about the decals.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from Keebler:

I'm sure he's talking about the decals.

Aren't they the same kind of thing on all models?

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from QuarterGrabber:

Aren't they the same kind of thing on all models?

Yeah, true.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from zod:

Its 13 000 for you? Well that would make a difference as to whether or not I would buy one.

Yup, $1 NZ = 0.83c US (which is good.) With shipping & gst here it comes to $11,270 USD Now who's keen to buy

So you guys in USA saying NIB pins are expensive, come pay our prices

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

Yup, $1 NZ = 0.83c US (which is good.) With shipping & gst here it comes to $11,270 USD Now who's keen to buy
So you guys in USA saying NIB pins are expensive, come pay our prices

Maybe you guys make more down there. I've seen the size of your beers, everythings more down there

#34 5 years ago

I don't think I have bashed it very hard and I commend some for hanging in there. With that said is grossly overpriced for what you get, it's a nice game but not going to get me to spend my pin funds. I have space and money to add a pin but I can't justify this LE and yes it is one awesome art package on the Le. ,

If it was 7200 I would still be in but I just cannot support this pricing structure and feel your just stoking stern to cut cut cut raise raise raise their pricing. Maybe I will get one used later or if I get a crazy price on a new one. But I just am not amped or excited about the Le over the pro. The custom speech pack is a step in the right direction of the consumer a bit more for their hard earned money.

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from QuarterGrabber:

Maybe you guys make more down there. I've seen the size of your beers, everythings more down there

I'm just a poor fisherman blessed with many friends

Mmmmm Beer!

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from zod:

I don't understand, this is the first pin with any kind of projector that I know of.

I believe Happy Clown or Dodge City and their ilk would have something to say about that.

You DID say "any"...

#37 5 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

I believe Happy Clown or Dodge City and their ilk would have something to say about that.
You DID say "any"...

Earlier than that, 1936 Bally Bumper has a projector in the head as part of the "Totalizer".

Bumper 001.jpg

#38 5 years ago

$3K for better artwork, a couple rocks, an up kicker, some wire metal, a swivel mechanism on the ship, that ridiculously stupid projector and extra lights, is ridiculous. I think Stern should give all of us idiots that bought the LE a $1k refund. Really. Still looking forward to my LE, though.

#39 5 years ago

P**** envy? in this hobby/business/lifestyle?

#40 5 years ago

I am not sure way people are bashing it. Most bashing it have never played it.
I think it comes down to the price, That's all I can figure.

#41 5 years ago

Got to play it quite a bit at Expo. It's an OK pin. I like everything about my MET better. I'll pass on ST and wait to see what's next.

#42 5 years ago

Suddenly, getting good value for your money has become more important than getting the latest LE, simple as that!

#43 5 years ago

Is it worth it to you? If so don't worry what others think.

#44 5 years ago

In my case it has nothing to do with the money- I know with Stern I may not get the best bang for the buck, I may lose money. I don't care. I enjoy playing their pins and respect how they kept the hobby going. But as a METLE owner I refuse to buy anymore NIB pins from them until they can speed up the coding process.

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from wdpvideo:

I am not sure way people are bashing it. Most bashing it have never played it.
I think it comes down to the price, That's all I can figure.

It is exactly price. The game is good, LE or Pro, the problem is markmon was right, there is very little difference in gameplay between the pro and LE. So for us in Canada we would be paying $3300 more for some extra lights. To me personally it is not worth it, I do not see the value in it. Especially when pinball refinery makes such awesome mods for the pro. This is why I have dropped down to the pro. I might sell it later to pick up a premium if I see the value in it.

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Honestly, ever since Stern starting seperating pro's and premiums (particularly Metallica, that hammer really blocks your view), I like playing the pro more. I don't care about gimmicks and fluff, gimme fun pinball and non-stop action.
I don't think features are the real issues, it's unfinished code. If Stern isn't careful, they're going to see their home market start to dry up.

I agree 100% pinball is about flow , sound, lights , action , cool modes and goals . Stern will be in good shape for the future if keep putting out Pro models ala Metallica and Star Trek ( the price is right ) and the gameplay is excellent .

I don't see the home market drying up as the price and game quality is totally there on Star Trek and Metallica ,

#47 5 years ago

Is the ST LE Bashing Simply P@##& Envy? Or Something Else?

I'd say its Something Else.

#48 5 years ago

I agree with those above who have cited price. I prepaid for an LE and finally backed out after a lot of thought and a long drive to Flippers in Grandy to play their ST pro. I just don't see paying $7.5k for this pin. I do think it is fun, and I greatly prefer the appearance of the LE over the other models, but, for me at least, it comes down to how much I am willing to pay for a better looking pin. The answer is not $3k. Of course, had I significantly more income, I probably would come to the opposite conclusion. I wouldn't be surprised if I pick up a used pro in a couple of years. It's a good pin, but we all have to make tough choices, and I have chosen to pass on the LE. Having said that, I look forward to playing the LE--someone else's LE, that is.

#49 5 years ago

I think it's people upset with what they perceive as Stern taking advantage of LE customers. Assuming they'll pay any price. Maybe that's true in the end, but I can see why people are pissed. I think there was some expectation that the price increase would be met with an increase in what goes on inside. Something we see in the Pro model (LED lights).

I'm a fan of this game. It's a lot of fun and with a more complete ruleset should be a classic. But I don't see a reason to buy a Premium or LE at this time. The difference really are minor at this point, especially now that the Pro is offering LEDs.

#50 5 years ago

Just sent out the email to cancel the LE and going with:

1) Jackbot
2) Star Trek Pro
3) $500 for mods.

As a bonus I will not have to wait for complete code on one of the pins

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