totally agree.

There is only one company that would fetch my money in a pre-order scenario (meaning, game announced, but not completely designed, not in production):

Stern.

Stern has a great track record for delivering the physical product. They are a legit manufacturing company with a history in the industry.

Spooky is close to making that list. I believe that they have their priorities and business in check... They delivered on AMH. Would like to see how they finish shipping AMH and what their #2 announcement/plan looks like.

Jersey Jack...possibly...although I bought my WOZ NIB late last fall. I personally think WOZ is the best game I've ever played, it's a master piece IMO. But, JJP's constant stumbles with TH make me pause and introduces too many questions. Lawlor's supposed game is all over my radar and would love to see it shown in final physical form this summer (that might get my pre-order $$). I think bringing game #3 to the public in the same form as Stern typically does (announce...two weeks later, show....1 month later, begin shipping) would make them jump way up in my realm of trust with pre-order money.

Everyone else? Sorry. You wouldn't have a chance of seeing a single penny of my hard earned cash until you have reliably built games shipping. There's just too much at stake to throw thousands of dollars at something that may or may not ever exist.

Just my 2 cents

Bumper was an Australian Distributor for JJP that never passed the money over to JJP and stole it.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bumper-action-amusements-pty-ltd-in-liquidation

I guess I'm still confused how anyone could not trust a manufacturer with their money but would trust a middle man who is passing the money over to said manufacturer? Do you really think any distributor is going to eat the full cost of entire machines and refund you out of their own pocket if a manufacturer goes belly up? I would think if you didn't feel comfortable with the manufacturer, then don't by the game.

Think of your dream pinball theme. It costs $8,000.
Ok, now imagine a company announces that theme as it's next title. There are zero pics, zero game play, and you have no idea who is designing the game. You have zero details.

The question:
Did you preorder it and send "down payment" money?

If you answered YES, then you fall into one of 3 categories:
1. You are are an idiot
2. You spend money and don't mind if you ever see any of it again
3. You are too impatient to let "game play details" get in the way of your dream pinball theme

ALL 3 HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH OWNING, FIXING, RESTORING, OR PLAYING PINBALL MACHINES. SO, WHY ARE YOU HERE? (As you may belong in the OT forums.)

Well, pretty soon JPop will be working at McDonalds, so you'd better rethink how you pay for your breakfast!

Really!? A rug and chrome trim? Oh my fn gawd! I'm in!

ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney.jpg

Why did you guys Tag Spooky? I thought he was against pre-order and didn't accept money ahead of time?

For whatever reason, there is a large segment of the collecting population that has this "Fear of Missing Out" mentality.

agreed.

given that most of the reputable distributors are accepting a small [refundable] deposit, my guess is that most people would rather part with $100 to ensure receiving their "grail/dream themed" pin, rather that arriving late to the party and finding all of the girls have already been taken

I was with til the idiot part.

Passionate hobby. Most here are in Positions to own and collect coffin sized toys due to being smart enough to be able to afford them. If I wanna make a bad buy in pinball, it's usually cuz I'm feeling excited about my new acquisition, not a matter of intellect.

Unless you meant shut up and take my money, then yes I'm an idiot.

I don't believe any new pinball-related company will be successful if they hope to fund their inception with pre-order money, as Skit-B, Jpop, VonnieD etc. did. For that model to work, a critical mass of pre-payers is needed. Some will still pre-pay, but enough won't, and it won't be enough for anything to get off the ground.

This survey is flawed. I voted yes to the topic but it should have been no to the question. The topic and the question contradict each other.

I always wondered who was responsible for these.

pinball.jpg

Pre-pay buyers will become more cautious, but pre-pay is here to stay.

Most know they are taking a risk and are comfortable doing so.

Overall it may result in a couple of new pinball companies that wouldn't have been.

It certainly has increased thread count.....

Spot on!!!

I was thinking the same thing. If they're ever made I will have one, it just won't be NIB.

You do realize that people could vote "no" in the poll even if they have zero intent of ever pre-ordering a pin, right?

I was referring to your statement about PD Barnum. It doesn't really apply since the poll doesn't ask people if they will pre-order a pin. It asks if "pre-pay is still viable." Technically you could have every single person who voted that prepay is not dead be people who would never preorder a pin under any circumstances, but they think *other* people will.

Also, I noticed that your poll question is all f'ed up, because the title question is the complete opposite of the poll question.

I bet half the people who voted didn't realize which way they were actually voting.

I.e., "Is the pre-order/prepay model finally dead?" is very different than "Is prepay still viable in the pinball community?"

I'd vote yes to one of those questions and no to the other.

SOMEBODY'S thinking waaaaay too much about this shit.

Oh, I don't find it hard to believe OTHERS will continue to blindly preorder pins at all. Sad. But true.

I myself have put a deposit with David Stein (Professor Pin) at the old Bumper Mk I, and received my "lowboy" no problems and also with Joe (Aussie Arcade) similar, also no problems, received units Ok, I also picked up another unit from the old Bumper Mk 1, in my own car and David Stein (sales manager) shook hands with me and said "thankyou for doing business with us". As many Pinsiders know, David Stein (Professor Pin), has a good name in the amusements business and had delivered on target, as he promised in the past. I think David's good reputation convinced Bumper customers, "that it was safe" to do pre-pay. If it was in the hands of Mr Stein, then I'd say it would be okay, but as you fellow pinsiders know, Bumper was sold off and taken over and the rest is history , as they say. I think pre-pay may have worked, if managed by the right people. I always put deposits on any machine I want and if they deliver it to my address, I then pay the balance.