(Topic ID: 294947)

Is the pinwiki wrong, or am I about the TIP-36c?

By Acronymicon

2 years ago


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#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Acronymicon:

This quick test works only with TIP-102s and with TIP-36c transistors >since the tab of a TIP-36c is NOT connected to ground.

This is a very good question; to answer this you need to understand a few basic facts.

1) The Center pin (pin 2) of both TO-220 and TO-247 packages is connected to the transistors tab.
2) TIP102 are Darlington transistors, and the pinouts are in alphabetical order (BCE) 1) Base 2) Collector 3) Emitter
3) TIP36Cs are Complementary power transistors with pin layouts in alphabetical order (BCE) 1) Base 2) Collector 3) Emitter

Now lets take a look at your application:
In the NGG manual there are a couple errors to make the connection point questionable.
On both Pages 3-11 (flipper Circuit diagram) and pages 3-5 (Solenoid/Flasher Table) the power transistor is listed as Q84 (J120-6) and the Hold transistor is listed as Q86 (J120-4); however, if you look at the Power Driver board wire list, it shows UR Flipper Hold as J120-5 and and UR Flipper power as J120-6 which is incorrect. I always side with the schematics when there is questionable connection points which shows both J120-5 AND J120-6 as Power and J120-4 as hold.

The stuff that really matters:
In the WPC95 schematics, the TIP102s Emitter (pin 3) is tied to ground and the collector (pin2) is connected to the coil; therefore any continuity between ground and the center tab means the coil connected to the device will be on.
In the WPC95 schematics, the TIP36Cs Emitter (pin3) is tied to the coil and the collector (pin2) is tied to ground; therefore any continuity between ground and the center tab only means the transistor is connected to the circuit as the tab should be at ground potential.

So what does all this mean? It means the tab of the TIP36C is tied to ground making this an invalid test.

What documents were used in this post?
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Edits: Edited Power and hold circuits for clarification, had misidentified a pin 5 and 6 in one of the drawings due to low resolution schematics.
To do list: make make own high resolution scans of my WPC95 schematics.

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from Acronymicon:

At first my connections were wrong, I had the outside wires on said flipper coil reversed, I found that out after a series of fuses associated with that flipper circuit were blowing.

This was my first assumption but I overthink everything and it took me a half hour to get all the documents together to answer the "Why?" Conflicting connection information in the specific game manual never helps either.

If you read my post and understood it you now know more than most pinball owners ever wanted to know.

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

TIL the slamramp is the 4th flipper. Never had to troubleshoot so never thought about it, but it makes sense based on game operation.

Not the first to do so however, JM uses 3rd and 4th flippers for diverters.

Interesting information along these same lines ... STTNG has no 4th flipper circuit connection but uses the Flipper 4 EOS switch circuit on the Fliptronics board for the spinner! How crazy is that?

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

wo reasons come to mind.

All switches used in the (regular) 8x8 switch matrix.
Direct switch may have a slightly faster and consistent response than a switch in the matrix.
Indiana Jones center bank drop targets are direct switches. Leads me to concluded it's probably reason #1.

Both are very good reasons and I would concur with option 1; without counting the EOS or direct ground switches STTNG has 69 switches.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

The tab of a TIP-36c is not connected in the same way internally.”

Yes this should read "The tab of a TIP-36c is not connected in the same way externally."

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from Acronymicon:

At first my connections were wrong, I had the outside wires on said flipper coil reversed, I found that out after a series of fuses associated with that flipper circuit were blowing.

This is very concerning as reversing the outside wires would forward bias both the primary and secondary flyback diodes all the time and your 50V is just just waiting for a path of destruction.

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Based on an assumption that WPC95 flipper control and WPC89 flipper control works the same way, as soon as the CPU activates the flipper coil, BOTH the Power and Hold transistors energize and would short your 50V right through both transistors to ground; this would allow a destructive amount of current to flow through these two components and may have causes some board damage. The destruction of the one coil diode shown in your picture is actually a good thing as it would have broke the short circuit by forcing the current to flow through the coil windings instead of around it.

You definitely want to either test and or replace both your drive your drive transistors, the best way to check this is as follows:

If the board is on your bench check for continuity between any ground point and on the board and to J120-4 and J120-6, continuity here would indicate a shorted transistor.

If the board is installed in the game you could perform the same test as above by removing J119 and J120 but you can use any ground point that's easy to access for checking between J120-4 and J120-6 to ground. If you do this check with the game powered on you should keep the coin door open or remove the 50V fuse as a precaution.

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

I've updated/corrected the above two entrys.

I still have in the back of my mind that I need to review TIP-36c testing procedure. I had a discussion ages ago with terryb IIRC, about this.

ChrisHibler Thank you for all your efforts in maintaining this page, it's a great resource for folks working on their pins and it provided with just the right amount of detail that most can understand it and also more detailed information for those of us that want this kind of information.

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