(Topic ID: 264212)

Is the pinball market about to collapse?


By 27dnast

10 months ago



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  • Latest reply 10 months ago by Daditude
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    #151 10 months ago
    Quoted from pinfarmer:

    This seems misleading. Most of the jobs are minimum wage, part time. And people have several at a time.

    Yeah the people who believe in the invincible strength of our economy are a dwindling bunch.

    #152 10 months ago
    Quoted from Chitownpinball:

    People with this mind set should be fined. Just stay home and STFU already about "not living in fear over some stupid virus". Thats a selfish asshole point of view that is going to get us in a lot of trouble. I had to get into arguments today with people at work about the same thing. The hospitals need to stay below capacity to keep up. If people just go running around doing whatever they want were going to have more and more cases. I dont get why this is hard to understand. Just stay inside. Please.

    The only thing I'm going outside for is to buy used pinball machines from people who are panicking over the millennial flu.

    Is that ok to do?

    13
    #153 10 months ago
    Quoted from delt31:

    over the millennial flu.

    LOL

    It's so funny that you are calling it "the flu" cause this isn't a real problem and it's just being blown up by the evil media.

    You are so funny and clever! When this is all over people are gonna come crawling back to you, praying you'll forgive them for not taking this as lightly as you.

    #154 10 months ago

    I just checked the usual sources, people are still asking too high prices. Nothing changed yet but I will let you know when it does.

    #155 10 months ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    Now if we can just start a rumour that pinball machines are better than toilet paper during a pandemic we'll all be rich.

    Better to hope pinball machines don't get a reputation for being like dirty toilet paper with 40 years of germs. We are entering a new Era where people have been sensitized to what they are touching, what sort of people they are around.
    Sanitary Pinball Parlors will prosper.

    #157 10 months ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    Better to hope pinball machines don't get a reputation for being like dirty toilet paper with 40 years of germs. We are entering a new Era where people have been sensitized to what they are touching, what sort of people they are around.
    Sanitary Pinball Parlors will prosper.

    That's a good point. How's Dave and Busters going over there? The idea of combining kids, food and video games isn't too appealing at the moment. In my head its the land equivalent of a cruise ship.

    #158 10 months ago

    Pinball prices will dip in the short term due to the influx of machines about to hit the market. In 3 to 6 months the number of estate sales with pinball machines is going to explode.

    #159 10 months ago
    Quoted from jeffro01:

    No way that's true, and if I were you'd I'd seriously take a step back and look at the situation again... Several areas of the country about about to go through a period that will kill potentially thousands of businesses and those ripple effects will take YEARS to recover from, certainly not months. Decade? Yeah that may be a bit long but 6 months is comical... We're still going to be dealing with this 6 months from now much less "back to par".
    Jeff

    we might be dealing with this for a while, but zero chance this takes years to recover.....if you think so completely delusional

    #160 10 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    we might be dealing with this for a while, but zero chance this takes years to recover.....if you think so completely delusional

    No one knows for sure, all we have is history to look back on and make predictions.

    #161 10 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    we might be dealing with this for a while, but zero chance this takes years to recover.....if you think so completely delusional

    And two weeks ago some thought anyone who thought we'd be in the state we're in now was completely delusional.

    #162 10 months ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    No one knows for sure, all we have is history to look back on and make predictions.

    Anyone saying differently one way or the other is just guessing at best.

    #163 10 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    we might be dealing with this for a while, but zero chance this takes years to recover.....if you think so completely delusional

    Should we keep a tally of the all the posts that are not going to age well?

    #164 10 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    we might be dealing with this for a while, but zero chance this takes years to recover.....if you think so completely delusional

    The only delusional one here is you... What do you think is going to happen to the economy when millions are laid off? How long did it take to recover from the last recession? Nearly 10 years... Come on... I'm not here to predict exact times but you're completely off your rocker if you think there's zero chance this takes years to recover from.

    Jeff

    #165 10 months ago

    I’m gonna put out Wanted Ads for Whitewater $2000, Cirqus Voltaire $2200, and anything Stern you have to pay me to take. And Ghostbusters is a pass no matter how much you pay me to take it

    #166 10 months ago

    Ok, just curious if anyone knows if Stern still has their line going and what is still rolling off of it? If so, are distributors required to buy and stock this stuff for them?

    I agree with those that are saying NIB sales are likely going to take a hit over the next several months. Guessing they significantly slow down or stop the manufacturing line for the time being.

    Anyone here already canceling any planned orders?

    #167 10 months ago

    The rise and felch of pinball ™️

    #168 10 months ago

    I don't fully think the pinball market is about to collapse. It will be hit a bit, but not Collapse. As someone who works in the entertainment industry during the last recession, you would be very surprised at how resilient the entertainment industry can be. And Pinball is apart of the entertainment Industry. In the end of the day people what to get their minds off shitty situations and will spend money to forget their problems.

    #169 10 months ago

    Funny thing, have you seen any distributors on Pinside beside zmeny? Have we heard from anyone at all, serious question. I mean they know if people are buying or not... if they were flying out the door, would we not hear about that? Has everyone’s inbox been jammed with offers from your distributor? How desperate are they? These are the actual questions that I have, because, if sales are in the toilet, do you tell people that? Not sure I would try to do anything but BAU... maybe have an “inventory reduction” sale to move some machines, then offer bundled deals when contacted about your sale. “I got a DI or a Hobbit you can have at $500 off, free shipping to go with your Stern Pro whatever”.

    Just checked my inbox to see if I am missing out on any sales, and sure enough, 3 hours ago Bing! Like clockwork...

    Maybe the market is on the decline?

    #170 10 months ago

    i don’t think worrying about the prices of our pinball machines right now is our biggest concern, it’s how many rolls of toilet paper we can get when we trade them to those hoarding bastards. also, it’s a pandemic, i wouldn’t be shipping a game across the country right now, or going to an arcade, please take part to prevent the even widerspread, and this is coming from a zoomer

    #171 10 months ago

    I can see NIB slowing for a while, maybe even a long while, but overall I think the pinball market will be fine.

    But, if you still have beanie babies or modern day baseball cards you are trying to get money for, you missed that chance by 25 years or more.

    I just had to throw that in because crap is just crap, always was, but 99% of pinball machines are not crap. And the other 1% of pinball machines that are crap, somebody somewhere likes them, or at least pretends to, to be able to get rid of one they own.

    -2
    #172 10 months ago

    Eventually, even without this short term Corona deal, everyone who assesses the value of the dollar doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to realize painted plywood, with vinyl decals, plastic parts and some cheap Chinese electronics, run by software an 18 year old could write will eventually seem ridiculously priced at $8000 to $14000. The clocks been ticking like a time bomb for a while now. The hard cores will keep on, but the majority fad chasers will be bailing soon, and the bottom will fall out. It happens with everything, and most things don't recover. People move on.

    #173 10 months ago
    Quoted from Utesichiban:

    Ok, just curious if anyone knows if Stern still has their line going and what is still rolling off of it? If so, are distributors required to buy and stock this stuff for them?

    I was thinking about that as well. I remember reading once that distributors have a certain number of LE’s they were practically obligated to order for every release otherwise they may jeopardize their ability to order future LE’s from Stern. I’d hate to have that pressure to stock high cost, low margin items during times like this.

    #174 10 months ago
    Quoted from pipes:

    I remember reading once that distributors have a certain number of LE’s they were practically obligated to order for every release otherwise they may jeopardize their ability to order future LE’s from Stern. I’d hate to have that pressure to stock high cost, low margin items during times like this.

    I feel very sorry for the distributors, for a while now all the playfield issues headaches, and now a sudden downturn of the economy for all this wild stuff going on. They are just caught in the middle it seems, but I really hope not, I hope they do not have to fork over the whole price before they can make the sale. But I have no clue how that actually works.

    #175 10 months ago

    i am a small-time hobby operator who was considering a new pin in late spring/early summer (JP or WW, most likely.) i typically buy one or two new pins a year, one WPC or higher-end game, and one or two lower-end machines.

    all of my locations are now closed, likely for 6-8 weeks. maybe longer. zero income, and i still have on-going bills to pay. fortunately, unlike a lot of bigger ops, i pay cash for all my equipment and don't have outstanding loans or service contracts.

    one of my locations has already admitted that it may never reopen. we will see how long the others can float without customers.

    not only am i no longer in the market for a new machine, i am not in the market for any games, and may not be in business in 3 months. i know other operators are in the same boat and may end up in the same place.

    take that for what it is. my operating has always been a hobby, and it's been awesome to have amassed a nice collection with other people footing the bill. if this is the end for my operating, so be it. but that's a stance many of my operator friends and location owners don't have the luxury to hold, and have admitted that they are seriously concerned if not outright frightened.

    #176 10 months ago

    I have always made the 100 or so mile round trip to pick up games from Jason. My thing was, ok, free shipping, but that costs you money, so save me money by you not having to pay freight, and he always did save me money.

    And a few times when I walked in his warehouse he was on the phone, with a manufacturer or a customer with a playfield issue, and I could tell he was stressed, and caught in the middle, and trying his best to make everything good.

    I felt sorry for him, and when the call was finished he was happy to talk to me a while, relieved that I had no complaints, just there to make a pickup.

    And last year I was there a lot. I sold 3 games that I was tired of and picked up 3 more from him.

    And so far none of this crazy mess affects my plans for this year. I am now happy with what I have, no plans for another pin anytime soon, but still planning on a Golden Tee that he is also a dealer of.

    Jason does not have my email address, or pretty sure even my cell phone # stored. He is not on here advertising much, I have seen a few times he did try to sell a game he personally owns, or a deal on a show game.

    The one real service call I needed it did take 2 months, and that was fine, I know he stays super busy, and he charged me half of what I thought. And I bought him dinner and gave him a good tip.

    2 pinball people I would buy dinner for, my distributor Jason, and LTG.

    And I really hope the next time I see Jason to pick up the Golden Tee he is doing great and happy. I really hope he does not start trying to give me a deal on something I am not interested in. He has never done that, and if he does now I would probably cry, and say I wish I could help you, but my plans have not changed.

    And just whatever and venting, damn I hope all this weird virus crap stuff is gone very soon, I have never seen times like this, unless a ice storm was on the way.

    Way too much is changing, but for now my plans are the same as they were 3 months ago.

    #177 10 months ago

    So does this mean JJPOTC isn’t going back on the production line?

    #178 10 months ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    Funny thing, have you seen any distributors on Pinside beside zmeny? Have we heard from anyone at all, serious question. I mean they know if people are buying or not... if they were flying out the door, would we not hear about that? Has everyone’s inbox been jammed with offers from your distributor? How desperate are they? These are the actual questions that I have, because, if sales are in the toilet, do you tell people that? Not sure I would try to do anything but BAU... maybe have an “inventory reduction” sale to move some machines, then offer bundled deals when contacted about your sale. “I got a DI or a Hobbit you can have at $500 off, free shipping to go with your Stern Pro whatever”.
    Just checked my inbox to see if I am missing out on any sales, and sure enough, 3 hours ago Bing! Like clockwork...
    Maybe the market is on the decline?

    Zack is on a fire sale of used pins?

    #179 10 months ago

    Even in the great recession, prices didn't dip deep or for very long.

    pinval (resized).png
    #180 10 months ago

    I have no idea why this guy gets downvoted for asking a question everyone is thinking out loud. C’mon cut the nonsense. Everyone is thinking about this and wondering what is going to happen.

    Should JJP release GNR right now? NO WAY IN HELL! Should Stern announce their new game? NOT A SNOWBALLS CHANCE IN HELL!

    Do I think this entire thing is way way way overblown YES I do... this country needs to get back to work and stop buying toilet paper. With that being said if this goes on much longer you won’t be worrying about the price of pinballs, but rather keeping your car, your house, blah, blah.

    Right now is not a good time to sell a pinball, just like it won’t be a good time to sell your home. Right now everyone’s best bet is to wait this out and see what happens. I’m seriously hoping this all starts to settle down in a couple weeks but we’ll see. If this panic lasts 4 weeks, or God forbid 3 months pinball prices won’t be a point of topic so it would go without saying the prices would fall by a lot.

    People need to start spreading positive stories, and getting people to calm down. We as a country need to get back to normal and fast.

    #181 10 months ago
    Quoted from drfrightner:

    everyone is thinking out loud.

    Ah, no. Of all the things to worry about during this pandemic/recession, my pinball collection is literally the last thing.

    In fact it’s going to be a great outlet if/when things get tough.

    (Disclaimer: your individual economic circumstances may differ and you should seek external financial advice before buying or selling pinball machines during a pandemic).

    #182 10 months ago

    Prices will go down for the high-end pins and the low-end of pinball purchasing but I don't foresee any major changes as in companies going under or at least I'm praying none do.

    #183 10 months ago

    Disclaimer - I am in no way trying to argue one way or the other as to weather or not the right decision was made, just curious about a couple things.

    Just curious to hear from business owners who were forced to close (or if anyone knows this answer really). Is anything being done (even if a drop in the bucket) to help with expenses? I certainly wouldnt think you could just be shut down without something being done, tax immunity during closure, etc. I just cant imagine being in your shoes. Ive never owned a business, but am very close to several who do (have not yet been closed) , and know it certainly is no walk in the park.

    Does anyone know? Or is it all hung up in government currently?

    #184 10 months ago
    Quoted from RWH:

    Prices will go down for the high-end pins and the low-end of pinball purchasing but I don't foresee any major changes as in companies going under or at least I'm praying none do.

    On this note what a kick in the nuts to American Pinball. Your first games dont sell well despite having a ton of stuff in them, you refocus your energy and come up with Hot Wheels, plan to show it off at TPF, and then the world comes to a halt. Talk about salt in the wounds.

    #185 10 months ago
    Quoted from jandrea95:

    On this note what a kick in the nuts to American Pinball. Your first games dont sell well despite having a ton of stuff in them, you refocus your energy and come up with Hot Wheels, plan to show it off at TPF, and then the world comes to a halt. Talk about salt in the wounds.

    Hopefully they do not become a tragic victim to this situation.

    #186 10 months ago

    I think prices will drop, mainly because it’s been the expansion of Barcades and location pinball that is fueling the growth. They have been buying up new and used games at a very high rate. With so many public places closing, I think many will be forced to sell some of their games.

    #187 10 months ago
    Quoted from jandrea95:

    Disclaimer - I am in no way trying to argue one way or the other as to weather or not the right decision was made, just curious about a couple things.
    Just curious to hear from business owners who were forced to close (or if anyone knows this answer really). Is anything being done (even if a drop in the bucket) to help with expenses? I certainly wouldnt think you could just be shut down without something being done, tax immunity during closure, etc. I just cant imagine being in your shoes. Ive never owned a business, but am very close to several who do (have not yet been closed) , and know it certainly is no walk in the park.
    Does anyone know? Or is it all hung up in government currently?

    All I’ve heard of so far are interest free loans.

    -1
    #188 10 months ago

    Perhaps the bubble will just release a little air , but not completely deflate.

    #189 10 months ago

    A lot of recent growth has been from one and done newbs buying a game for their game room. They’re not on Pinside, and they’re not obsessed like we are.

    When things get tough, they’ll be the first to sell. So that’s likely affecting Stern NIB and recent Stern used more than anything.

    15
    #190 10 months ago
    Quoted from drfrightner:

    I have no idea why this guy gets downvoted for asking a question everyone is thinking out loud. C’mon cut the nonsense. Everyone is thinking about this and wondering what is going to happen.
    Should JJP release GNR right now? NO WAY IN HELL! Should Stern announce their new game? NOT A SNOWBALLS CHANCE IN HELL!
    Do I think this entire thing is way way way overblown YES I do... this country needs to get back to work and stop buying toilet paper. With that being said if this goes on much longer you won’t be worrying about the price of pinballs, but rather keeping your car, your house, blah, blah.
    Right now is not a good time to sell a pinball, just like it won’t be a good time to sell your home. Right now everyone’s best bet is to wait this out and see what happens. I’m seriously hoping this all starts to settle down in a couple weeks but we’ll see. If this panic lasts 4 weeks, or God forbid 3 months pinball prices won’t be a point of topic so it would go without saying the prices would fall by a lot.
    People need to start spreading positive stories, and getting people to calm down. We as a country need to get back to normal and fast.

    I get what you’re saying and hope for the same thing. With that said, saying this country all needs to get back to work right now and that this is overblown just isn’t true. I know a lot of people are going to hurt by what is happening right now and it is painful to watch and consider the ramifications of that.

    The reality is that this has the potential to be a major public health crisis, kill thousands of vulnerable Americans, and strain our healthcare system and providers to the breaking point. There is a reason the actions being taken right now are happening and it trying to prevent this from happening. Send everyone back to work and act as if everything is business as usual and you guarantee we will be Italy or Europe in 1-2 weeks.

    This is a time to take care of yourself, your family, and those in our communities around us that are vulnerable and could lose their lives. It is going to require sacrifice and sadly take an economic toll on many. Let’s just hope 3-4 months from now, the sacrifices will have paid off and we’ll have bought time for a vaccine or treatment that can get us back on track.

    #191 10 months ago
    Quoted from delt31:

    The only thing I'm going outside for is to buy used pinball machines from people who are panicking over the millennial flu.
    Is that ok to do?

    No matter how uninformed, disgusting and offensive you may come off on this topic I hope all your friends and family stay healthy!

    That goes for you too. Stay healthy so you can buy many, many games...then sell them 90 days later

    11
    #192 10 months ago

    It's sad that it takes something like this for so many to realize they need an emergency fund. The same people that say they can't afford one will be getting their daily starbucks, have 4 family members with IPhones, have a $100/month cable package, etc. You have to prepare for the worst, because the worst will always happen when you least expect it.

    #193 10 months ago

    i say no on collapse. but i would think we might not see many new games this year. the manufacturers could bump them back. hopefully that isn't the case.

    #194 10 months ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    No matter how uninformed, disgusting and offensive you may come off on this topic I hope all your friends and family stay healthy!
    That goes for you too. Stay healthy so you can buy many, many games...then sell them 90 days later

    Exactly, everybody's number one priority is to keep you and yours safe guys, nothing is worth putting loved ones in harms way.

    #195 10 months ago

    I sure hope not. Pinball is the least of my worries in this crazy time. Atleast I will have something to do being bored at home.

    #196 10 months ago

    I have to say that this could be the end of the road for jjp ... there on the ropes and this will take them down .. no ones gonna buy a $13,000 machine when they cant make their mortgage payment

    #197 10 months ago
    Quoted from spikelou2:

    I have to say that this could be the end of the road for jjp ... there on the ropes and this will take them down .. no ones gonna buy a $13,000 machine when they cant make their mortgage payment

    Especially if liquidity dries up, which it looks like it might.

    #198 10 months ago
    Quoted from spikelou2:

    I have to say that this could be the end of the road for jjp ... there on the ropes and this will take them down .. no ones gonna buy a $13,000 machine when they cant make their mortgage payment

    My understanding is that JJP has some seriously deep-pocketed investors so I'm fairly certain they will be able to weather the storm that is coming. How do you know they even have a mortgage?

    #199 10 months ago

    27dnast Why no Poll added? Here are some suggestions for a poll...

    1. If it Ain't broke, it Ain't Pinball (Insert economy metaphors here)
    2. Hey its only pinball (Some will sell and some will buy depending on if they own a Gottlieb I cant give mine away-MAN I HATE THOSE 80's/90's Gottliebs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
    3. 10k by Christmas (number of death threats I will receive by Christmas by the Gottlieb dedicated)

    #200 10 months ago

    I never bought any pinball purely out of investment. However, just like my investments, I will be in a "hold" status for the machines. You haven't lost anything until you've sold your game....at a loss. If I ever sell a machine it's because I need to make room for more hehe.

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