Supply and demand.....much more supply is coming onto the market to soak up all of the demand, which is a good thing...for example, they have learned to let the printing presses run until every single person who wants one, gets one....ie AC/DC, and now Met and Woz.....

People will have their chance to buy at cheaper prices if you are patient....

We play at Might Mikes - sterling blvd near the new harbor frieght and safeway. Just down from the DMV..

Warm-up week for the new season starts tonight.. and week 1 of the summer season starts next week. Come by and play as a guest even if you are unsure of league play.
http://www.fspazone.org/flyer/mms-sm13-flyer.pdf

Don't have to buy all of them.

Hobby is expanding, and that is great! Pins offer us and the next generation something that's just plain fun. Compare this to the graphic , violent , nature of the war game alternative. Pins will change , technology improvements will be great, and I look forward to the improvements! Remember as prices increase covering the cost of these changes, the older games that are LED and maintained , should hold values to increase.

Yes you do. The guy that dies with the most pins wins.

LTG : )

I have my one machine and will be lucky to ever get another. A disabled wife and three kids = lucky to have even one machine. But I love it and a local place has one free pinball night a month for me to get my fix.

More and more I hear..."I'm selling a few pins because I want WOZ, or Hobbit or Metallica or Star Trek." Someone that's had AFM for 3 years is willing to let it go for a minty new Star Trek.

Cool. I will try to stop in one night. Grilling steaks and drinking Dog Fish IPA 90min tonight with the family. I usually hit Fords Fish Shack for dollar oyster night on Mondays so I am not expected home anyway. Think I will swing down 28 and up Sterling Blvd since its 10 min away next week : )

Big financial crash in which market--pin market, stock market?

The only problem with waiting for a crash in any market is that the future is not knowable in advance.

IE--if you're referring to the pin market, the end could be in 5 years, 10 years, 15 or 20 years or longer...no-body knows.

OP: if the games on your WTB list are too pricey, there are many outstanding DMD games at $2500 and below: TS, HSII, FT, BSD, JM, C, etc.

Tons of enjoyment right there.

Additionally, EMs offer tremendous fun at substantially lower cost.

Macro point: only buy your toys in life with risk capital--ideally, after all debts have been satisfied.

All I do is approach it like this. I budget what I can comfortably spend on a machine or machines, without it affecting anything else, and then I spend less that that budget. Thats how I keep up. I buy what I can, and nothing more. Thats why I do not buy NIB machines of insanely priced games that are around 10K a piece.

These are rising, tho, as other prices are rising.

It's all supply and demand. And every year that goes by, and more people decide to collect... there will be fewer machines on the market. Not to mention, every year that goes by, that's one more year of a machine taking a beating... or getting destroyed/parted out. So, supply goes down, demand goes up... and voila... you've got a sellers market

50-75cents seams pretty cheap to me.

There are mods that cost more than some pins. There are toppers that cost more than some pins. It all depends where in the hobby you are and what you what do with your hobby. Look at the NOS playfields, repro playfields that are priced way more than the whole machine cost in the past.

Pinball is similar to the old car hobby. You can't compare a Duesenberg with a '49 Oldsmobile. Old car prices have accelerated with some cars flattening out in value and other such as muscle continuing to grow in value. Hind sight doesn't do you any good. It is better to move on, live in the present and deal with things as they are.

I'm glad Stearn is producing costly machines to act as a "money sponge" so the older machines may be available to those of us without huge bank balances.

Very true, I bought my first DMD machine a couple months ago for $700. (a little over $900 if you count transport/parts) It's one of the best purchases I've made. I am thoroughly enjoying my new hobby!

Yeah, current line-up is Road Show, Funhouse, Jackbot, PartyZone, NBA Fastbreak, Royal Flush

I buy pinball machines because they make me happy. But I am not one of those guys that is willing to pay $5000 for a TAF, $9000 for a MB $6000 for a LOTR. Maybe If after taxes I brought home a solid six figures. But I don't have that kind of money.

I have seen a steady increase in what some people are asking for their machines. It seems that the TAF is now seeing $5000.00 being asked. That is pretty much a $1500 increase in roughly 12 months.

But, while seller expectations seem to be rising, I don't think buyers are following them. I really don't think there is much traction for the higher prices being sought after by the sellers. There is nothing to support the higher priced demands.

If I were a buyer, I would just wait out the sellers. Either they can sit on their machines or they can price it to sell. But that is just me. I have patience. But I am always ready when the price is right.

I just brought a pin with four flippers, a mini-playfield, multiball, ramp shot, captive ball, solid state machine and got it running for around $200. With some patience and luck I think every budget can find a way to have some fun... and like Abacus said - just putting a few quarters into a local machine EVERYONE can do.

Supply and demand. Who knows where the prices of great pin tables are headed. I bought a 1980 Williams Blackout (in great condition) just recently. At minimum, it's a great piggy bank if it is not set on freeplay.

Too expensive hobby, really! Like any hobby there are different aspects of pinball, and collecting pinball machines. Some one can actually enjoy pinball with out owning any, as long as there are some on route close by. Or connect with some one with pins in their home. You could collect the flyers only, or backglasses only. From restorable EM pins to brand new pins, to A-Games. Pinball collecting has many variables.

It's not too expensive to enjoy it if you can afford it. In general for most people on these forums we are going to own at least one machine so we have some enjoyment. Once your in the hobby it's fun as there are still lower cost pins that are fun.
The part where it is too expensive is for the people who can't afford those entry level pins, here in Australia your hard pressed to find a pin under say $1500 that doesn't need a lot of work. Even pins under 2k are probably rare to find. I know loads of people who think my pins are awesome but can't afford to spend 2k on their own pin so for them it's too expensive. A good poll would be if you could round up people who were interested in pinball but didn't own a pin and then ask them what the max they would buy one for would be. I find so many people tell me they'd love to have one but it's too much money which is why I like sterns idea for 'the pin' if they could cut the price down substantially.

I think there is a lot of merit to this. Also, when a game is sold you notice people generally don't say what price they got for it. So they may have listed Game X for Price Y but actually got Price Z and nobody says, but the next person looks at his for sale thread and assumes he got Price Y so he sets his even higher with higher expectations.

Sorry I didn't mean the pinball market as i know nothing at all about it. I was referring to the upcoming crash which will happen due to the data out there.

The guy that dies with the most pins - is still DEAD!

There is a pinball machine for every budget. The hobby is very expensive if you only want to buy 'A' list or NIB pins.

As others have mentioned, you don't have to own them to enjoy them. Finding places to play is half the fun!

In an area where the only known pin publically available (Nascar) hasn't been playable for almost three months, I'm glad to have a couple machines. Here in the South not too many places with pinballs (though Atlanta has a few).

Yes but he doesn't have to wax them any more

It's not a cheap hobby, but there are definitely a lot of other hobbies that are much more expensive. I have definitely seen a bit of a downturn in pricing in the past couple months and it's obvious that a lot of pins are sitting for sale with more bumps and price drops than even 6 months ago. Hard to tell if this is seasonal or a bid of a downturn overall.

Either way, you can have a good collection for a fairly reasonable price if you aren't in a rush, learn how to fix games yourself and proactive about being aware of what is available on the market at any given time. I could never imagine paying $3-4k+ for a pinball machine, so I have to be diligent about finding the right deals and acting on the opportunity when it presents itself. Outside of buying too many pins in a short time, I feel from a price standpoint per pin my collection hasn't been too bad. There's only two in my collection that were over $2k and $2300 is the highest I've paid for a pin period and all of mine were purchased in the past year and a half where we have been in a huge, what I would call, bubble, so diligence is key.

It will be intersting to see how long it take for the wtb MM. He is looking for a beater to restore. Pretty soon fix er uppers will vanish as folks will or have already done the work to sell them.
The old route and sell a beater world is gone and will continue to dry up as HUO and lighting routed but still top dollar become the only choices.

Definitely agree here. I estimate within a year that finding an old operator with routed games for sale will be almost impossible. I know almost every operator within 200 miles of me has either already sold out or is in the process of doing so now.

50 cents for 3 balls. Hasn't gone up in 20 years.

Wish I could do it...I live just outside DC and Mighty Mike's is a 45 minute drive each way, not accounting for traffic. I realize it's easier to find more space in the outer suburbs, but I hope the local pinball community can find a more central location soon. If anyone wants to launch a kickstarter for a great beercade in DC, I'm ready to give big

I count myself as being lucky I discovered this hobby >25 years ago.
Over that time I've been able to build up a collection of pins I like
and have been able to hold onto them. If I were entering the hobby today
I'd be discouraged. At least EM's (which in some cases I enjoy better
than DMD games) are still affordable. So there is hope for the newbies.
If they can get past the 'A-list' game hype.
Steve

If you knew that prices were going to take a major dump in a few months would you sell everything right now?

My first thought was: "No, I could care less what prices do....I like my pins."

But then my second thought was: "Sure.....then in a few months I can buy them back plus add more!"

The latter!

I think a lot of people talk about pinball being a "bargain hobby" just to justify the time and money tied up into it. Sure, it might be a bargain when compared to something like cars or boats ( a couple of favourite comparisons ) but there are a helluva lot of other hobbies out there besides cars and boats.

Camping, woodworking, glass-blowing and gardening are hobbies too. There are 1000's of absolutely free hobbies out there, and a lot of hobbies that families can do together. We need to remember that when talking about pinball as a hobby.

The other thing is, getting your initial money back from a hobby is not the same thing as the hobby being free. Money tied up in pinball machines that are not appreicating at a rate higher than inflation or any outstanding loans you may have are costing you money...money that could possibly be directed elsewhere and to a better end.

For me, pinball is currently my most expensive hobby in the amount I have tied up in it, and I have a lot of hobbies.

Not at all. I bought a great machine for $300 not too long ago. Parts generally aren't expensive as long as you're just fixing what's broken, not altering anything. There are pinball machines for every budget from free to $20,000 if you are patient and look for deals. If you can't own, you can rent by-the-game for pocket change. How could that be too expensive? Pick your price point and accept that's where you can best participate.

Who cares. He Won !

LTG : )

"Who says you can't take it with you?!"

To the OP:

Pinball, like any hobby, is going to cost time and money. If you can't afford the entry price to be a collector in a hobby, it doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it from a different angle. I have friends who don't own pins and they're big fans of the hobby. They go to shows, they come to my house and play, or they play at other pinheads' homes. They still get their pinball fix, they just don't have a row of games in their basement.

And if it's about owning a certain set of AAA games that you consider as what it takes to enjoy a hobby, just be patient. I started off with a DE Simpsons and a JP. Over the years I was willing to take in project machines, fix them up, and sell them. Eventually I was able to afford a AAA game here and there. Now, I've got a collection that I would have never guessed that I could have built, and the hunt and acquisition of each of them has a good story behind it. Money may have bought the machine, but it didn't buy the stories and experiences.

If it was all about money, it wouldn't be fun. Don't let your lack of money hold you back from playing and enjoying pinball. Get into pinball slowly and keep working at it until you're happy with what you own or have access to. Don't feel like you need to have a double digit collection of HUO games to feel like you belong in the pinball community. Just loving to play pinball is enough to get you by.

Expensive? Only if you're buying

I think a big part of why people think this hobby is too expensive is that too many people have high expectations. They see A-list games at shows, and in personal collections (sometimes dozens of them) and they think "well heck, if they can afford this, so can I". Problem is, some people have WAY more money than others, or they got in the hobby when they were affordable. I know people that have 25 pins in their collection, but they aren't all A-list games. Many are EM's, early solid state, and guess what.. they've also been collecting them for 30 years!

Some of the new people new to the hobby seem to have this expectation that they are going to build a giant collection in under a year for next to nothing. I'm sorry, this just isn't going to happen, it takes years of either saving up, or fixing up other's people problem pinballs, and finding the right buying opportunities.

Early solid states are still very affordable in my eyes. If you can't afford $400-$800 for a pinball, then this hobby (as a pinball owner) just isn't for you. I can easily spend more than $400 in parts fixing a pinball machine.

More expensive by Christmas!

I'd also add I was an avid player and fan of pinball from the time I had a quarter or two in my pocket. Before that, I loved to watch other people play but didn't have quarters of my own to spend. It wasn't until I was in my mid thirties that I bought my first machine. So for over two decades I was an enthusiast, and eventually a pretty decent player, and my total investment was only a few quarters here and there.

Ain't that the truth!

We all win! Those machines will come on the market soon when the estate of the deceased winner is settled.

YEs, But you get to play the pinball machine the whole time you own it from the comfort of your home.

tried that before with the ex and she said "you sound just like your mother." Traded her in on a newer model. No regrets.