You asked me what makes it better, I told you. It's a better game because it's more fun for the money. Your video game analogy is a straw man argument.

I can go to Jersey Jack and have him hot glue every GI Joe ever made onto a playfield and if it plays like the hobbit you can keep it. It doesn't matter how much it costs.

Hey look I got a point across in 5 short sentences. Maybe try giving brevity a shot.

I like the toy. Someday, maybe I will find a one of these to play in the wild. But I thought the play field looked familiar.

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STL?

Well not much else to talk about when a great toy is lame to a few dickheads.

I have not played it enough to judge the toy on this game. A friend invited me over to ck it out so maybe this week i can give my thoughts on it. If Stern can keep the price low on the pro models, then thats good but buying a LE model of this game vs lets say JJPPOTC, i know which one for the $ i would buy. Just saying.

Wow what a suprise.

Perhaps the artwork reminds you of NF? -- but not the layout at all, amigo...

BK3 is a precisely flat wall of posts and targets that brick far too many shots. It's inspired by the kinda-flat post experiment that was BoP -- but with BoP there are fewer posts, and they are wider apart than with BK3 (and no flat targets to brick you).

What you are looking at in No Fear (which is a great name, cause there's nothing to be afraid on in this very fair layout) -- is a standard wide open and deep asymmetrical fan placement of posts that you see throughout the 90s and most moderns, without any flat targets blocking a lane, where missing a shot is not automatically fatal.

-mof

Or a lame toy is great to a few dickheads.

Ok. I like that.

Just saying. Big difference is what you get for almost the same price.

Why don't someone ask the question if the artwork on the backglass is good? I think it might be the worst artwork I've ever seen on a modern day pin. It looks like it was created with melted crayons. Seriously who thinks the artwork on the backglass is good forget the toy or lack thereof, what about the backglass does anyone like that?

I'm not worried about how ANYONE spends their money, I'm pointing out a fact that every stern game gets cheaper and cheaper and they want more and more money. I could care less how you spend your money, but I think its pretty fair to say that this game will not hold its value. I just talked to a Stern dealer who told me he's only been able to sell THREE, on the flip side they sold 60 Munsters. its not selling because there is no license, and without a license you need to make the second coming of MM or something, they failed.

You can buy one of these machines to your hearts content, I have no issue with that, I'm sure the next guy who buys it off you, for a massive discount will thank you! My issue is only with STERN going cheap, but charging more. Are you seriously going to tell me a flat out LIE and say oh yeah they put everything into this game, they went all out, no you can't say that because that just wouldn't be honest. So then why didn't they go all out, since they didn't why didn't they charge less? I like Stern I own several of them, but asking $25,000 to $8000 for Beatles I mean c'mon man! Do they think everyone on planet earth is dumb?

If you're going to ask for sky high prices then deliver sky high games! End of story! This has nothing to do with JJP, but at least they go all out every single time like them or hate them, they always try to do something incredible. Stern is trying to get the most and give the least. That is my only point which I feel is hard to argue!

I have all three versions as desktop wallpapers on my Computer and think they are perfect and cool. They remind me of early video games, Dungeon Master, Wizardry, Bard's Tale, World Warcraft, Stonekeep!!! Love it.

You repeat and repeat your posts, but that does not make it right what you say, it just get's boring. All this got answered over and over in enough posts before.

I like the art and I’m a notorious art snob.

Stern's cost cutting has been going on steadily for almost a decade. No argument and kind of obvious.

IM was a poster child for cost cutting, yet it ended up being a popular title because it was FUN. I own Beatles Gold and it's also a lot of FUN.

I love my current lineup. I use to whine about Stern cost cutting but decided to simply limit my purchases. Nothing you or I say here or say directly to Stern will change their business plan. It is what it is.

Waa Waa Waa bitch and moan bitch and moan ac/dc was the first game with standup target decals ST first game with something on the speaker panel led's the black knight pro has drop targets these are only the few things I can think of off the top of my head so no it has not been all cost cutting.

Brilliant!

In terms of BOM sure but fun? not so much and for me when it comes to a game its all about fun factor. nuff said.

IMHO, pinball shouldn't be reduced to "toys", the final verdict on a machine is that it offers an often playing experience that emerges you in the world it creates. BKSOR has old school "kick your ass to the curb" soul in spades. As for what any random person wants to own, LOL! Since when did a baller give a F about the newbs who think HD displays are necessary to have an awesome game? The experience should be on the playfield, not the display and definitely not whatever corny gadget (hyper loop anyone?) get's crammed in there for supposed wow factor.

I'll go ahead and listen to you though if you can get more than 300k out of a run of 30 games on current code (.94)

Stern gives me the most fun. You're right, it's hard to argue. Purely subjective.

Shouldn't be a problem to find one here. We have 9 Black Knight's on route. 7 Pros an LE at Tilt Pinball Bar and a Premium at Blainbrook Bowl.

https://pinballmap.com/minnesota?utf8=%E2%9C%93&region=minnesota&by_machine_id=3126

Subjectivity factors in, but lets be real. Some opinions are just plain dumb and wrong.

Here are some examples:

"Raiders of the Lost Ark is a shit movie"

"Shaq Atrack is the greatest pin ever"

"All women should wear yoga pants"

i'll definitely be hitting up TILT pretty heavily so its good to hear that they have an LE!

Yes it is. Shaq Attack even won a poll. You can't argue with polls.

Yes I am. For my taste its as if they made this pin custom for me. The God of War style animations, Thrash Metal soundtrack simple and fast with a cool theme, thats the honest truth. Couldn't care less if it sells like hotcakes or hardly at all, not even a minor concern that I'll take a loss upon resale and I never consider that when buying a pin. Me, I always tell the truth even when I lie.
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You, sir, are welcome in my game room anytime. It's a common sense and bitch-free zone. You'd fit right in.

I love that we have men in their 50s and 60s calling men in their 30s and 40s "newbs." Its all about what nostalgia you lean towards, I guess.

And both of you old *astards are welcome into my game room anytime you make a trip up to Alaska

Here is how the real final verdict will be stamped...how many machines do they sell. Hey there are people today who still like the Ford Pinto so with that being said bute is in the eye of the beholder right? LOL. I talked to a major distributor and he told me Munsters 60 machines sold Black Knight 3. Yes i know Munsters came out first but 60 to 3 I think that says it all Black Knight got slayed.

I hate the back glass, I would have rathered a more photo realism, no give me a mech in the backglass like the old days. The game gives you no value for the money, and is another example of Stern trying to rip off their customers, that goes triple for Beatles.

But I’m only one opinion, just as the people who love the game only get one opinion. But the only opinion that matters is buy the game for 6k to 9lk. Just because you dropped 5 bucks at a pincade that doesn’t count, sales is what matters. Do you love it enough to drop serious coin not. We can all praise the game and slam the game but how many games get sold that is the only verdict that matters.

Once again I’d like to see Stern give 6k to 9k in value otherwise I’d rather go out and find a really nice NBA Fastbreak!

That’s what the ignore feature is for

Jesus man u are a broken record, a broken record of horseshit. The "final verdict" who cares how many pins sell? do u sell pinball machines? I don't thusly couldn't care less.

They did, to me anyway and thats all that matters. Do you believe JJPOTC or Wonka is a 6K to 9k value? I wouldn't pay 2K for either and not because the materials aren't there but they do nothing for me, theme wise or gameplay wise nothing. I mean I'm gald they were made for those who love them but just because the "value" or apparent value is there means jack squat.

Well I take that back I would buy it for 2K and flip for an 8K profit then buy a DP Pre.

The art on this machine is 100% better than that self-taught photoshop looking mess on Wonka. The cabinet artwork isn't even close to the same league between the two. Stern deserves a good bashing on some of the mechanical things they have cheaped out on, but I have a hard time running down their current art packages.

I do agree with this statement. Sterns artwork on there cabinets is fantastic. JJP needs to step up in this department. Everything its JJP all the way.

I enjoy games from all the manufacturers.

BK LE seems pretty awesome to me and my family. Its the first nib purchase since WOZ. I am overall very happy with it. To each his own.

Ugh.

Has anyone confirmed that this is a real person? Seems like a bot to me. The same garbage is repeated over and over. You've stated your opinion and we thank you for that, but one time is enough. Please stop repeating the same crap over and over. It is annoying. I promise you that we heard you the first time. As far as worth of the game, the market will regulate itself. If people don't like it, they won't be willing to pay high prices. My opinion is that it will fall in line with previous Stern games as far as price goes. It is so much fun to play and will probably keep getting better! Your argument is fruitless at this point. How about you just check back in 6 to 12 months and we can see where the aftermarket prices are.

How did you guess that I’m a bot? Was it the shoes?

No I think its the tedious repeating of the same crap over and over like a well oiled robotic machine. and yeah the shoes.

Even Steve Ritchie is calling you out drfrightner

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Proof that Stern people read Pinside religiously. Makes me even more pissed that they could care less about finishing Ghostbusters.

I’ve heard them all say in person that they don’t. Apparently they used to, but w/ all the negativity the’ve Given it up. It’s too bad, but it’s reality.... John borg even went as far as to give examples of times when co workers had bad days after sifting through comments people leave on here. It’s nothing new, but it’s certainly picked up over the last year or so.
Personally, I’ve just gotten a lot better at draining threads, and ignoring users. Both of these have positively impacted my user experiance

Yep, the sub forum checklist which for me now only includes Stern and All for general new release info. The Batch edit which is magical for termination of fluff threads that mean nothing to me and the fav option for quick access to important topics. Much happier, although I was pretty happy before.

Can you get pinside in prison?

In Steve Ritchies case he created BK and cares about peoples experience with it. I dont know how the creators of ghostbusters feel about that particular game, looks like they dont care at all about it anymore. I personally wouldnt buy a dwight sullivan game because of this fiasco. Tim Sexton however looks promising

I'll take that as a compliment, or should I say wear with a badge of honor. I'm merely saying what most people are thinking. Just because Stern is some big shot in pinball doesn't mean you can't call them out for going cheap, which they did! I don't even think its a debate! I'm not a fanboy, I'm never going to ask some pinball designer for an autograph that is just weird. I design attractions over 500 of them, and I'm never signing my name to anything I do either. With that being said do a good job, then you did your job, do a bad job and you get grilled. Its really that simple and yes I've been grilled. I don't care who designed any game, is it good or not? Nothing else matters.

All pinball is fun, but make something legendary. Last night I was playing Banzai Run... why can't any pinball manufacturer do part of the game in the backglass like the old days? Why can't someone bring back video modes? I was looking at my Simpsons Pinball Party and wondering did the same company who made that game really make Black Knight? What happened? I know the Black Knight slaughtered everyone with his Sword of Rage! Got it!

LOL