Just think of it as a steel fleshlight.

You and I totally agree, the playfield is barren and yes Stern is slacking big league. Why? Because people within this very community are allowing them to get away with it. Everyone holds JJP to this standard that is so unrealistic its not even funny, yet they release games like POTC which is a flat out masterpiece. They take 1 to 2 years to release each game love them or not they're trying to be the best, deliver something new with each game.

What is Stern doing? I can answer that one... they have the best dealer situation which allows them to slack. They have the best licenses and use the license as the reason to buy rather than the game itself. They're flooding the pinball community with new games on top of new games on top of new games... and they're making a fortune because suckers are paying $9000 for a Black Knight LE that isn't worth $5000 dollars.

Can someone ANYONE tell me how Black Knight LE is worth the same price as a Wonka LE? Please someone explain that? I'd love to hear it!

Just remember this the very second you buy a Black Knight any model, you're going to take an instant 1000 to 1500 haircut and it will only get worse as time goes on. Look at POTC every game I see for sale is going for over 10k... they bought it they enjoyed it and now they're making a profit. Explain that one! LOL

The same will never be said for Beatles, Munsters or Black Knight three strikes in a row!

Here is the bottom line, if you don't hold Sterns feet to the fire you'll never see any innovation, or little to no effort to change the game! Hold Stern to the fire the same that everyone holds JJP to the fire. Its only fair. Black Knight is a CHEAP game, and with virtually no license being paid, they could have afforded a topper on every game, upper playfield on every game, and something other than cheap see thru plastic cut outs of a knight.

Guys you have to get real here... $9000.00 for Black Knight LE, could buy you a car, could pay off some debt, a chunk of a mortgage or jump into the stock market. For 9k you better get something special and Black Knight is anything but special and the same goes for Beatles and Munsters.

3 years from now what will be worth more a good Fish Tales or Black Knight? I already know the answer FISH TALES!

People need to stop obsessing about new pinball games when there is virtually hundreds of awesome games already out there you've never owned for 1/3 the price. You want a new STERN let them PROVE TO YOU it's worth YOUR money! Let the locations buy them, go play them, and make the decision. I will not be buying anymore Stern games sight unseen ever again due to be grossly underwhelmed. Just an opinion, your opinion may differ and I can respect that the same that I hope you respect mine.

Interesting everyone trying to sell their POTC are asking over 10k... they bought it, enjoyed it, and now they want a profit. Funny huh? That will never happen with Black Knight, Beatles or Munsters three strikes in a row! Just saying.

That would be effing awesome. Kind of like Johnny Cage from Mortal Combat doing his ball punch. If Only Stern could get the guy that did the Mortal Combat voiceovers to do the Black Knight voice overs.

I think there is a very real possibility of getting a BK for just a hair over 5K (Pro) - and that's where the sweet spot is with this game. It is fast and fun, and the crowds at the NW show proved that without a doubt.

There's no reason I saw to go for the LE or Limited, the top PF just didn't add anything compelling to the game play. I actually enjoyed it more than I did the Wonka. Not as much as ACNC, but that's another post.

/flame on

Why is it so that more people that played BK love it than bash it. But the few that don't like it like drfrightener are so vocal about it that they don't like it and why do they always think their opinion is the only truth? In every BK thread about this game drfrightner is on a crusade against this game. Post over post and always the same stupid arguments over and over. There are many games out there that I don't like much, but I never had so much anger in me about the fact that there are other people that like these games.
There are JJP games that I like, there are STERN games that I like. And why is it so hard to accept, that I and many others prefer games like BK more than games like Wonka? Iron Maiden and Stern Star Wars don't have many toys. But for me they are the games I play the most and I would not trade them for any other game out there. And I hope that BK will be the next one like these two. If every game in the future would be like Willy Wonka I would stop buying new machines. But I think it's good and cool that so many others like it and are having fun with this game.
I said it in an other thread before, drfrightners rating for the shadow is 2,5. For Star Wars 3,69. That are 2 of my favourit games. So when he says that BK is such a bad game it's one more reason for me to buy it.

But back to the reason for this thread. Is the BK toy lame? I can think of many lame toys in many games, but I think there are not many better ones out there than the BK. All the voice work Steve Ritchie did for this toy should be considered too if you want to judge it. The toy interacts with the ball in many different ways. It has interactive lights and the best voicework ever to make it real. And did I say that it looks awesome? I still don't get what you could want more?
So anyone that thinks that it's lame, please give me one toy of the last 10 years that you think is better and interacts with the player and the ball in more ways than the BK does? I think as a toy it's on the same level of greatness than the ship in Pirates, Rudy in Funhouse, the crane in dark knight.....but are there better one out there?

I can explain it. Who gives a shit? Is this what think about it? Buy a Scrabble board. Jesus man who cares what is in the game as long as its fun. My BK3 sits next to Maiden and yeah its pretty sparse in comparison but equally as fun so ur paying for fun not this BOM horseshit. I don't know what it cost to get the custom music but that was probably exspensive and well worth it, the game is amazing. Cool theme and great sound, fun and fast, probably my fav Stern.

BKSoR is actually a fun pinball game.

More fun.

Of all the avenues you can go down ICE, you just parrot HIlton's beyond lame "kneepads bit?" That's what you consider clever?

Come on man, a little originality goes a long way.

Try. I know it's hard to come up with material smarter and funnier than Hilton's. But at least try.

I almost forgot: better music! By a fcuking mile. Xylophone & slide whistle torture vs. Scott Ian thrash update of Steve Ritchie's classic BK2K soundtrack.

played a bk pro recently. walked away after 3 credits. i find it lack-luster along with munsters pro. waiting for my mbrle patiently and will enjoy that one. seems the new sterns that are getting pumped out fast are mediocre. enjoyed deadpool but the all red playfield makes me dizzy. i liked the williams sounds on the dp btw.
back to bk toy which is ok, its like having a nice boat in the middle of the sahara desert.

chips ahoy

Then you most certainly didn't even get your feet wet in this game yet. Your loss. Fyi, I just got my MBr LE two weeks before I got my premium and the bksor premium gets played much more by a long shot. I love both but bksor makes it hard to walk away from the game. I just keep playing more. That's a good thing. To each their own. It's a tough game, which I like. I'm still learning the rules but this game is a keeper for me.

Seriously, how crazy is it that pinball features like Rudy were created nearly 30 years ago? The industry was different then of course but still, compare that kind of innovation to what we have coming out today (and at these ever-increasing price points) and what a difference.

Anyway...lame poll, the knight is an OK toy, but back to your drama

Did op create the LAMEST POLL EVER?

You should create a poll for that.

Clearly the only way to determine that is to calculate the BOM of the poll.

Here some info for you... probably the biggest stern dealer in my area I was chatting with them today. They said they've sold about 60 Munsters so that is good. I asked about Black Knight, they didn't buy any LE or Premiums and no one asked to buy one either. They did order four PRO's and could only sell 3 so far and one on display that hasn't sold. So this isn't good!

60 Munsters sold, against 3 Black Knight.

I think its safe to say Black Knight is a complete flop! The artwork on the translite looks horrible, the playfield is barron, no license for anyone to gravitate to, I think has sales in the toilet. The other game that isn't selling out is Beatles.

I think someone mentioned that Stern told them Munsters is selling well, looks like its not doing bad! It's never going to do Ghostbusters sales but doing a lot better than Black Knight.

It should have had a drop target that locks a ball in the middle of the BK toy figure like on Star Trek not just a stand up target.

Yes, "translite looks horrible", "playfield is barron", "complete flop", lame toy and no fun......... cause drfrightner said so!

But I can't help, everytime when I see pictures or videos of this game, perhaps I have a perceptual disturbance to what I read from drfrightner. Fo me it looks like an awesome and beautiful game, one that I am waiting for years to get one like it is.

#YeahThatHappened.

So 60 old geezers who can't handle the speed or music of BK3 means its a flop?

Not sure where this dealer resides, but I have an idea.
Ad-Singlev03-DelBocaVista01 (resized).png

the speed and the music start to wear pretty thin when the rest of the game isn't all that exciting. i'd still like to play a premium to see if that upper playfield helps mix things up a bit but even that seems like a bit of a one-trick pony.

If BK3 isn't "exciting" then no pin is.

Sounds awesome. Maybe you should make a game. I'd like to play it.

Not sure if it would ever end up in my home collection, but I have played the pro a few times and really enjoy it alot!

Let me be really clear here... I love MOPAR okay, Challengers, Cuda's, Chargers and I'm not a fan of Mustang. With that being said I've owned a Trans AM, Camaro, Corvette, and I hate to admit some Mustangs look pretty bad ass, but I'm a Mopar guy. I actually own a 1970 440 6 Pack Superbird... look it up!

So I'm always going to love Mopar but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate other muscle cars. Now with that being said I love JJP first and foremost because of their constant attempt to innovate pinball. There is NO QUESTION AT ALL that JJP games give you more for your money. Does anyone dispute that at all?

That doesn't mean however that I can't appreciate another pinball company. If JJP puts out a game I don't like I won't buy it. I think Chicago Gaming knocked Monster Bash out of the park! I love Batman 66, ACDC, etc.

Here is my problem... Stern has jacked up prices because JJP showed them people would pay more. So JJP tried to give you more for your money, and Stern gives you less but wants the same! How does that work exactly?

IF Stern wants $9000 for a game, then try to make a game worth $9000.

Stern shouldn't charge the same as JJP just because JJP has shown people will pay it, they need to deserve it!

Is Beatles worth $8000 to $25,000 seriously?

Based on what I'm hearing, Black Knight is NOT selling and its clearly because the game is probably their worst attempt ever at creating MAGIC under the glass. There is no magic there is nothing there... fun to play all pinball games are fun DUH! But is it $9000 worth of fun?

Who is going to sit here and HONESTLY tell me its $9000 fun??? Someone please stand up and tell me its $9000 worth of fun!

Tell me who's willing to pay $9000 for this game, knowing full and well a year from now you might not be able to sell that game for even $6k.

Will it be worth losing 3000 dollars? You defend this game, the game cost the same as Wonka LE and its not even 1/10th the effort, you say its fun and loud. But add some pinsound to your fish takes and that game is loud as well!

Can someone tell me aren't ALL PINBALL GAMES FUN? So its fun wow throw a parade. What does that have to do with what it costs? Some pinball games sell for $1000 some sell for $3000 ... what is Black Knight or Beatles really worth? How much fun is that worth? Is Munsters worth $9000?

Stern needs to start making their games WORTH what they charge or drop the prices. JJP is the Lambo of the industry, Stern can be the corvette and each car is worth a different price. Black Knight is a $4000 game its that simple. There is an old saying not all things are created equal and in pinball that goes doubled down. If all things aren't created equal them charge less!

More what?

I'm a big fan of SR, but this playfield layout isn't exactly his best work...it's a weaker version of NF if you ask me. The BK toy needed to be set back farther and it would've been great if he was a little more interactive like the TWD wellwalker, imagine if he had a shield in front of him.. 6 hits and the shield would raise and reveal a target or scoop for a kill shot.

Why did you buy it than?

Or what, they are in threat of being dethroned by JJP? for my taste BK3 is just as fun well more so as theme matters than DI and a Pro costs quite a bit less. Might only be worth 4K to you but wheres this army of liked minded thinkers you seem to have as most people I know that buy from all manufacturers love the game.

JJP had to offer more for the money otherwise whats the point in going into competiton with Stern. Which they haven't even scratched the surface so I'm sorry ur probably a nice fella but the whole JJP being the top dog in terms of BOM and build quality blah blah blah sucks and if it was true after 4 games they would or should be in a much better position.

heres an alternative translite.
keep the color scheme.
retheme as 'the red barren'.
redbarren02 (resized).jpg

Isn't that 9K relative to the individual? Who decides what makes a pin worth 9K? Is it all BOM?

I see what you did there.

I did manage to play an LE for the first time the other night and got a handful of games on it. I didn’t expect to like it more than the Pro because in all of the Stern LE’s that have an extra playfield I prefer the pro model.

Not in this case. The upper playfield adds a lot to the game. It was really cool stacking the two multiballs. I must have had 6 or 7 balls going at once. Having more to shoot for in the LE also made me notice the shortcomings of the Knight toy less. Also, the flail on that particular LE seemed to work better than the one on the pro I’ve.played.
E8934C7A-3882-4F1D-9EA8-2772FC8EF1E8 (resized).jpeg

subjective opinions are subjective opinions. something like iron maiden just blows it away in terms of exciting gameplay in my mind.

from my experience BK3 pro starts to wear thin after ~50 plays at its current code state.

like i said... i want to give a premium/le a chance before i make any sort of final verdict. plus i'm sure tim will keep making the code deeper so its not like the game is a lost cause or anything.

I'm well over 50 plays on BKSOR premium and....... I still love it.

Nurse frightener...since you show that that own BKSOR Premium I will cut you a deal.$5000 and I'll arrange shipping.The way I see it that should save you 5000+ since these will be worth nothing soon.Deal?

Unless of course you're full of shit

i'm looking forward to finding one on location when I head to the twin cities in a week or so.

Got my BKSOR on Monday. What a terrific game. The clear upper playfield was a great move, the double multi ball setup, the sound, the lighting, the flow, WOW!! I think the upper playfield was very well done and adds a lot. The visuals are appealing, the "toy" is awesome. Have only played probably 10 games on it, but don't see it getting old or going any place any time soon. Money well spent in my mind.

OMG... LOL!!!

This is what everyone falls back on 'ITS FUN GUYS' LOL

XBOX NBA 2k is fun, the Xbox costs about 300 bucks, and the video game is about ahhh 50 bucks or so maybe. So you can play NBA 2k for years to come all in for about $350.00. Guess what the following year you can buy the new NBA 2k, and Madden, and Baseball, Hockey, you can play Fortnight for a decade, while you're at it buy a really good Indy 500 pinball, maybe even a multicade 60-1 all for the price of one barron Black Knight.

Can I ask a question here seriously... aren't all pinball games fun? Its just a question?

So what in the hell does you saying a pinball game is fun have to do with IS OR ISN"T Black Knight worth 9000 for an LE or even $5700 for a PRO? I have a better question a really good mint condition INDY 500 goes for about 3500 to 4k or so right? Which game is better INDY 500 or Black Knight? If you haven't ever owned INDY 500 and you could get a mint condition game for say $3900 wouldn't that be a better investment and its really fun to boot!

All pinball games are FUN right? I'm not debating whether or not you're having fun playing Black Knight, show up at your local pincade spend about 20 bucks playing, and save yourself the thousands of regret. The real shock will kick in when you pay 9k or 6k and you must sell for 2000 less.

I'm not arguing that any game is or isn't fun, I'm asking if Black Knight WORTH 9000? Is it 9000 worth of fun?

Its just a question? At the end of the day people who have tens of hundreds of thousands in the bank I guess it doesn't matter because its only money. When you go to sell it for 40% less you won't care. I guess.

Look here is all I'm getting to here... for 9000 the game SUCKS! Period! For $3500 the game is cool because you can trade it later. At the end of the day all I'm saying is Stern is going cheaper with every single game, but they want more money every time. If we keep accepting less and paying more we'll never get the best possible product. That is a fact. I'm not hoping Stern goes out of business, I want them to put out more effort for the money they're charging.

No its not

no there not

To you, why are u so bothered by this? you don't have to buy it. I don't nor will I ever judge a pinball machine based on materials. I said it before I haven't found a JJP game fun enough yet to buy and they are loaded but if I went by ur model then the hell will how much enjoyment it brings you just buy the game with the most crap. Ofcourse Stern would have to step it up if business was failing but thats not the case and its not as if JJP is a threat with this loaded BOM style approach.

To many people yes, is WOZ or JJPOTC or OKterfest worth that much. Not to me so but I don't care if other people buy it. What I see here is a few pinsiders who get irritated that people are enjoying the current Stern pins and its stopping Stern from making games in a way they want, well thats too bad and I much prefer open concept fast pinball, would not have enjoyed SW's half as much had JJP done it and made it a loaded stop and go fest. Stop worrying about how other people spend their money.

JJP distributor thinks Stern games aren't worth the monies.
Got it everyone? Does this need repeating again & again?

Have you played Thunderbirds?

As for are these games worth it?
That's subjective. The NIB Stern games I felt were worth it to me were TSPP for $3700 shipped and TWD premium for mid $6k shipped so I bought them. I don't think any of the recent Sterns have been worth it to me given the price increases coupled with the fact that I would now have to pay an extra $700 in taxes. Hopefully in the future there wil be some Sterns that I find worth it. In the meantime, I will support the operators by playing them on location every chance I get because they are worth a dollar a game.

I can’t help but notice that half the posts is this thread are in response to one dude.

Lol. So true.

I like it and made it better!

9BC936F3-EE6C-424A-99E2-1E48C3FF5BD1 (resized).jpeg

C59657A1-6E56-42DF-9813-646BF2925FB7 (resized).jpeg

D1743ABF-E5FB-4FA6-9ED4-423493FC627F (resized).jpeg

Looks great!
-mof