I loved my TWDLE but no matter how hard I tried it was impossible to get past the fact of feeling cheated, for an LE to come in that condition has killed my relationship with the company and NIB Sterns. I played SM the other day and it would easily be considered an LE today but for half the cost, that is horseshit. I understand pins are expensive to manufacture but the bubble has burst for me. I can buy 3 to 4 nice quality System 11's for the same price which I find more fun all around anyway.

What would Pinside be if it wasn't for negative threads and complaining? Stern is putting out great games and just like every other successful business they have found ways streamline manufacturing to stay in business. Clearly there are things to nitpick on for sure, but this is a case of the glass being 95% full and 5% empty and yet we all (myself included sometimes) seem to dwell on the 5% empty.

Once you climb down off the scaffold needed to turn these games on, they are a lot of fun. That is really what it is all about. KISS is a damn fun game and that is coming from someone who REALLY does not like the theme.

Fun yes, too expensive, defintely.

You are wrong.

STLE is a real screened mirrored glass. As I've stated before, if you can "feel" the raised areas on the back as the layering color process of the screening and the white matte finish on the back it's the indication of a real screened glass as of the comparison of WMS era pins.

If it's glossy, shiny and smooth on the back it's a translite.

I just checked, and my STLE backglass is definitely much different than the one in my TWD LE. Like mnpinball mentioned, STLE has a matte finish and you can feel the raised areas. TWD LE is completely flat and glossy.

Underlord's advice to Stern says it all in 3 simple words: COLLECTOR'S AREN'T OPERATORS!

I believe the complaining would die down considerably if Stern were more actively engaged with the community. Fortunately, Stern's support continues to shine. Emailed Pat today and received a response within in 30 minutes! If Stern's support were "cheapened" like the machines they sell, my NIB days would be over...no doubt.

I grew up with KISS playing in the NY dive clubs close to where I lived. In those days, they were amazing. After the first 4 albums, I lost interest. Nevertheless, I'm clearly more of a fan than you That said, I love the pin. The rule set seems like it's going to be a nice balance that will appeal to a spectrum of players. Assuming they finish the ruleset and fix the Premium/LE issues (mostly wrt The Demon mech/lock), I am happy with the purchase.

I think another reason for the bitching is inconsistency. Once upon a time, designers names were proudly listed on the translite. In those days, it was a moniker for what to expect. When Joe Balcer did TSPP for Stern, I'm sure he fought for the fit-n-finish...one of the finer built Sterns. Ritchie and Borg have their own schtick. Quite awhile ago, Stern decided to take the designer names off the translite. To me, that should have been a statement that Stern is going to take more ownership over the definition of the Pro/Premium/LE models. Unfortunately, I don't think they do a good job of it. For KISS, my Premium doesn't have powder coated armor (and the LE has Premium level armor). Is this a statement from Stern about future Premium's not having armor? Doubt it. I bet if SR is doing the next pin, that the Premium will have armor. WTF? If they aren't including something or changing something, it would be nice to communicate with collectors. Pinball attracts a geeky, technical crowd and I think more is better when it comes to communication. These are big, discretionary purchases and I get the sense that if the behavior doesn't change, it will hurt their business...especially with the tenacity some of the other vendors are showing.

I can see/feel a difference in my LE backglasses. However, to me no matter, they all have an excellent upgraded appearance, and really make a difference especially when the game room lights are off and the pinballs are lit.
Big thanks to Stern! But, give us ColorDMDs out of the box!!

I wonder if the mirrored translite/backglass will be around longer should you ever need to buy a spare.

Remember BSM ? Ten extras and they are gone. You break one now you are screwed.

LTG : )™

They are all fun but are they worth 9K? Hell no they are not. You think it is ok to make every game cheaper yet raise the price Then put out stuff that doesn't work? Not me

Does it really matter when the stock lighting is a goddamn flurescent bulb. 9K and Stern can't put in backbox lighting like the B/W games. Horseshit.

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You do realize the Stern no longer puts a fluorescent bulb in their backbox right? They have controllable LEDs now.

Has anyone even paid 8K for a Stern including tax and shipping?

I agree when it comes for wrinkles in decals or a noisy fan, but a backglass that you have to take out and rub your hand across to tell that it is different? I looked very closely at the backglass in a KISS LE the other day and it looks awesome. Just as good as my STLE and much better than LOTR LE. I don't care what it is made of or how much it cost Stern to produce.

I didn't know that but it doesn't help with the TWDLE or most of the games in the past. I've been into the classic 80's stuff lately and that has really made the Stern translites and lighting look bad to me, glad they changed it.

If Stern is faking it, I wonder if my wife is faking it too?

Ask her

I agree with you...if it looks great now and will hold up for years, then I don't care about the process.

From my perspective, the much bigger issue with KISS LE is the BG artwork is the basically the same as the Premium! (which IIRC is the same as the Pro, with some minor color variations). An LE without a distinctive BG just isn't an LE. I'm sorry. BIBLE looks awesome...could care less about the process.

Feel around to see if there are any raised areas.

You mean Funhouse?

No, I think he meant Tommy ... or was it Congo?

She said yes.

Designers names were never on the translite. You used to see PLD (Pat Lawlor Design) and SRP (Steve Ritchie Productions) because they weren't employees - their independent companies were contracted the design work. Look at TSPP, POTC or any game designed in house. No name or logo. SRP no longer exists. Steve works for Stern. Hence, no logo. Nothing to do with pride or any of that.

I agree with a lot of what you said. Stern needs to continue to innovate, while cutting costs to remain competitive.

That said - really don't like Kiss much.

Hey Greg, yeah, PLD and SRP is what I was referring to. That makes sense...thanks for the clarification.

Thanks. I really didn't feel like writing all of that out.

Artists names however have traditionally been on backglasses/translites for a while.

TWDLE translight is a big improvement over the WD pro translight. TWDLE "mirrored" and color additions realy pop.

I think the TWD Pre has the best looking translite by far.

At least if you break a translite it is not the end of the world. But I prefer glass.

That's one of the worst I've ever seen. It's like Met Roadcase - doesn't match the game at all. The composition is boring with the rows of heads and the green doesn't match the rest of the game's art. TWD Pro and LE translites (or backglass or whatever) fit the rest of the art package perfectly.

Also saw whoa nelly's backglass earlier this week.

Rally nice artwork but you could see some horizontal lines (especially in her legs) that were caused by imperfections in the printing process.

Stern really needs to raise QC. I wouldn't be happy receiving it this way.

Otherwise the game is really nice and the cabinet's design is great.

Yeah but you think the Family Guy is funny, how could I value your opinion. No offense

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You don't think ANYTHING funny is funny. Obsessed with blood and gore. Does anyone leave your house with all their limbs ? No offense.

Not obsessed but I prefer blood and gore to fart jokes and cartoons that just are not funny at all, if you like it then good for you, I saw ten minutes of that TED movie it almost caused de evolution back to our ape like ancestors. I have a great sense of humour and love All in Family, Raymond, King of Queens, I love a good comedy and tend to prefer older stuff. Its like the new Roasts of today which are shit but I love the Dean Martin roasts, Don Rickles etc. I also love stand up, Doug Stanhope, Dice, Louie CK and many others, you don't know me but if you did you would find out fast that I myself am quite funny. I liked the "Does anyone leave your house with all their limbs" you see know thats funny.

I got scared there for a minute....

Hey, this is a family forum. Everyone must get along and everyone must be happy happy. No one can say anything negative about anything, you must like everything. Duloc is, Duloc is, Duloc is the peeeerfect place.

For a cartoon family guy has plenty of blood and gore. Something for everyone!

Remember that in December 2012, Stern hired John Buscaglia as their Chief Revenue Officer.

Guess what he sold at his previous gig.

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That is incorrect. I have never written an episode.

yes I can confirm they are doing this and still advertising it as a mirrored backglass not a mirrored translite. that is the only thing that bugs me, its false advertising.

Rarehero you're a writer? Anything I would know, it doesn't have to be horror based, Sci Fi is actually my favorite concept for TV and Film, videogames and pinball too.

That's true...maybe Hazoff will really like the season premiere in September!

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Its just not my style but I'm not really a fan of South Park either, I just can't find the humour in it, but on the other hand a lot of people can't find the humour in All in the Family so everyone has different taste's. Some people like Nicki Minaj.

You and Seth have similar tastes

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/style/norman-lear-and-seth-macfarlane-and-their-tv-families.html?_r=0

No one understands what I do lol. Director. Short version: I draw a lot.

....but back on topic. I don't understand why this is a controversy. Whether it's matte on the back or smooth on the back, the art is adhered to the glass. So, if it breaks, you're f*cked....therefore, it's a backglass.

I've had most of the LE's up through STLE & I have seen TWD LE...they all looked nice and mirrored - if they've changed the process, it doesn't bother me as they all look like the same quality from the front, IMO. These are probably more durable, too - and not prone to scratching or flaking like old-school backglasses.

So just to look at this from a different angle. If I was to take my FGY translite and glue it to the glass, could I then advertise it as a family guy with a real backglass when I sell it?

I was incorrect in my earlier statement, went down and took the glass off my STLE last night as I originally thought it was only a translite. It is some sort of screening, not the same as my Metallica, but it isn't a translite.

I just stopped by to say that Family Guy is pretty funny.