Pretty sure it's just what you think it is. There's also a thread somewhere on it.

Not sure what's fake about it.

Yeah, I think Stern has been using a different process for the mirroring ever since Avengers LE.

It's the new process, less expensive but gives the same results.

My Star Trek LE looks fantastic.

The results are not close the same in my opinion. My Wolverine and TWD LE are side by side, Wolverine crushes it in appearances by any measure.

It is only cheaper best I can tell, just one guys opinion though.

I agree with Tiger, the results are not even close!

Going with "no".

No Stern printing looks that awesome. None. Play field, back glass, translite. All sub par compared to modern print tech. So who cares? It's no worse than it ever was. I'm fine with my Metallica LE. Mirroring is fine. It's ink not "true mirroring" but no one does that now.

Why not continue doing things as before? I understand that Stern did the change to save money but damn these LE level games are upwards of $7500-$8000 now! There is no excuse for them to be cutting corners anywhere at today's NIB prices.

Yep. I totally agree!

No excuse, but plenty of reason: PROFIT. Stern's manipulative "LE" business model is squeezing every last penny out of collectors who pay the price over and over regardless of diminished build quality and final product...lethargy?

Not just LE's...my KISS Premium sits beside AC/DC Premium and looks like a Pro.

Stern is unfortunately all about cutting corners. At present, SPIKE is clearly more about cost savings than features. KISS is the second SPIKE offering and still no improvements to the LCD? No color or high-res images? Same old menus and diagnostics. Etc. The only end-user improvement is audio. SPIKE/KISS audio sounds much better than AC/DC.

Add to that a less attractive coin door, bizarre on/off location, really low support rails, noisy fan in back box, and it's hard to see how the new architecture is benefitting Stern customers. I know that birthing a new platform is risky and needs to be done in phases...hopefully we will see some video enhancement with Stern's 3rd SPIKE pin. We can only hope...

Fortunately, KISS Premium is a lot of fun (and despite the cost/features, I'm happy with the purchase).

Yes is the short answer imo

I wonder what they would charge for a replacement le glass with trans glued to it.

I gotta say, I was a bit miffed when I saw the backglass on my TWD LE next to my XMen LE. I did not know Stern had stopped using real backglasses, it was an advertised feature, I felt i had paid for a real backglass.

That fact that people are surprised by this tickles me. Stern will continue to cut corners and increase prices until you are lining up to buy a cardboard machine for $25k.

It is simple, stop purchasing Stern Machines. TWD was a massive step backwards from STLE both in terms of overall quality and feature set. It is well known around here that Stern keeps cutting corners, many complain about it yet still go out and buy their latest machine, the same with code.

Every time you purchase a new Stern, you are telling them they have the all clear to bend you over the table.

Who cares... do you know what will happen when Stern announces their next title?

SEND MONEY NOW!

Doesn't matter. Stern could let a monkey color on a piece of plywood then put flippers on it and the piece of shit would sell out. Until Sterns feet are held to the fire they will only get cheaper.

The last EM I bought cost $300 and had a real backglass.

I think I got a deal!

The only thing that would stop this crap would be REAL competition.

Agreed. The only answer is one of the other companies up their game and start making more machines at a faster pace. JJP sure looks like our best bet but if they can't make two titles a year and manufacture 3,000 minimum games a year they won't be a real competitor.

All Stern needs is Real competition in the market place! When Heighway & JJP are able to crank pins out on consistent basis, Stern will have to step up their quality, or lose sales.

You two posted as I was typing. Lol

Don't most companies do this? They get worse and worse until someone really complains, then they up it a little bit with a new feature, and then start dragging it down more. They try to find the spot where you will pay the most for the least.

Stern backglasses are a perfect example of that. They switched over, and there was a bit of bitching. However there were also some strong opinions of "you don't play the backglass" and "I think it looks fine". So overall as a community, we accepted it. So the ship has sailed on real printed backglasses. A year or two from now maybe they do a supreme version of a game and tout their "Real Backglass" for it. But overall, a glued translite is the future.

I hope I am not stating incorrect information here, so please correct me if I am wrong. My Metallica LE is definitely printed onto the glass, may not be as nice as older screen printing, but it looks great. The Star Trek LE that I have seems to only be a translite, but the mirroring does look fairly similar.

We did open up a new Kiss LE over the weekend and the back glass on that unit seemed to be done in the same manner as my Metallica LE, printed directly onto the glass, not a translite.

Traditional backglasses had the risk of flaking over time.

This new process - does anyone have any thoughts how it will hold up over the long term?

I hate the fact that the Kiss LE does't have special armor, a shaker, or really anything that Stern had to spend extra money on. Back in the day, when you got an LE, you got something special or a few things that cost extra money. So premium or pro it is for me.

Probably the reason that distributors still have Kiss LE's in stock.. who would have thought that this big, popular game "KISS" would have LE's sitting in distro's warehouses at good prices weeks after release?

its getting really bad.... great titles with no substance. Hollow box Does not even seem like a commercial machine anymore, In a few more years they will make a BINGO and call it a pro.The reality is how do JJP and Heighway make such a solid game at the same price point or less

Stern is a master at cutting costs. It's ironic that IM was the poster child for Stern cost cutting and it's one of Stern's most admired titles. I think KISS has the same potential. My KISS Premium sits beside AC/DC Premium and looks more like a "Pro". On one hand, the cost cutting is a bummer. OTOH, it's a really fast, fun game. I have a wildly beautiful, richly appointed TOTAN that's eye candy but never gets played. Fun trumps richly appointed in the pinball business...believe me, I'd love to have both.

The last screen printed real backglass from Stern was Star Trek LE.

The big stir up conversation on this was with Walking Dead. It was the start of a mirrored translite.

Easy to tell the difference.
Mirrored translite has a rear glossy smooth surface.

Mirrored backglass has a rear dull
matte finish with raised areas of the screening process you can feel on the back.

These are "real" backglasses
Spidey black LE
LOTR gold LE
Stones LE
X-Men LE
AC/DC LE
Metallica LE
Star Trek LE

Well, the more I read about fake backglasses, fan in backbox, on/off switch in stupid place, peeling decals, the easier it is for me to stick to buying no NIB.

The prices had got crazy high anyway but with reduced quality, it has become pretty easy to pass on NIB.

Translites came about when pinball machines basically became b movie posters. If it is a b title maybe that's all it needs. Real quality backglass art may be a thing of the past but I've still got my BK2K to show me what a real mirrored glass should look like.

Doubtful. To spell all 5 letters you will need to purchase the LE.

I agree. METLE was my last Stern NIB purchase. They lost a customer.

Time to go shopping for older titles again

What about Avengers LE which came before Metallica and Star Trek?

Stern lost me as a customer after TWD LE. I love the game and am happy with my purchase, but the one-two punch of the "mirrored backglass" and the premium model that wasn't announced upfront really pissed me off. I haven't even considered purchasing a NIB game from them since.

Did TFLE get a real backglass?

The "real back glass" makes a huge difference in appearance.

There is NO comparison between my Lotr LE and TWD LE back glass.

I've never been one to freak out about it but it does piss me off when I see Stern cutting corners and charging significantly more now.

Probably the worst comment I've read here is the "premium" version of Kiss now looks like a pro.

If it keeps up my dollars are going elsewhere.

.

These posts were made all the time on RGP 5-7 years ago. Same shit, different day. So if this were true 7 years ago, it seems that we would be playing cardboard machines by now, right?

Nope. Even if they were putting out more pins they aren't true competition since they cost $9k each. You can still buy Stern pros for less than $5k, and premium versions for $6.2k or so.

Hmm, I thought people were complaining that Star Trek was one of them? I was basing that on thinking it looked fine, since Star Trek looked fine. If that's not the case maybe I need to take it back until I can examine one that's actually different.

I owned STLE. Wasn't a real bg. Mirrored translite.

I agree with others here that Stern cutting options down or out completely, and trying to go for the 'cheap buck' by offering armor and add-ons that should have been there originally on the LE's sucked.

Most of all was the design cuts leaked out after release. TWD as an example. Prison ball lock converted to a bash toy, price of LE raised $200-$500 depending on Distro.

Have to produce a REALLY exceptional LE option to get me to even consider another Stern. Or a kick ass pf design ( aka Tron).

Here's a free piece of advice Stern:
COLLECTOR'S AREN'T OPERATORS!

There is NO comparison between my Lotr LE and TWD LE back glass.

Yea, you don't get a dick on the TWD LE

Oh snap! He went HD! Thanks Korn on RGP! I could never unsee that!

No, but it was never sold as having one. Each version has a unique translite. Combo, Autobot, Decepticon.

STERN:Cutting corners since 2001