(Topic ID: 222468)

Is stern evil????

By TwoHeartedMale

5 years ago


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  • 320 posts
  • 123 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by TheLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Is stern evil???”

    • Yea, that wasnt cool guys. 76 votes
      40%
    • Nope, stern can do no wrong. 30 votes
      16%
    • Hear no evil, see no evil. Its pinball baby! 83 votes
      44%

    (189 votes)

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    #72 5 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Yes, 100% someone would have stepped into the market. Everyone always says that "Stern saved pinball" because that is the dialog they started and want you to believe. That is merely marketing that stuck. I firmly believe that us pinheads saved pinball. We saved all the good games from going to the dump, we started up shows and kept them running, we kept games accessible and working for the general public to be exposed to.
    If Stern had just closed up shop during the "dark years" then someone else would have stepped in when timing was right and we probably would have seen more innovation and change sooner rather than just the past few years. Stern has done very little positive for pinball history from my perspective.

    Alice was a dream music theme. Then again anyone paying even a sliver of attention to team Spooky knows Godzilla is THE dream theme. Go look at the short history of Charlie/Bug and their first ever pin... or go listen to almost any of their podcasts where for years before even manufacturing pins they obviously loved the theme.
    For all those of you that keep saying "it is just business" please step back and realize that this is not just business. Watch the actions and behaviors of Sterns head licensing guy over the years and he is obviously filled with spite and hatred of a small insecure boy. His actions are what provide a clear understanding of his intent. Those that are paying attention have hit the nail on the head with this one. This license grab was done for spite. I know that can be hard on the feels if you are a Stern fan, but that is reality and a reality we all have to live with when we support them.
    I really do think we are currently in the beginning of the dark ages of pinball. Stern has ballooned out of control and cant possibly sell enough games in the coming years given the looming competition that are taking market share (sorry but all those smaller parts add up). Toss in a little deeproot which seems to be more than happy to use his financial weight and legal ego to sue others into submission. Mix it all together with decreased Stern quality with higher prices (it is all just business right? and they gotta make hay while the sun shines). Exciting times with lots of new games as the NIB high prices market is all tanking.
    JMHO, but the less I can support a company that ruthlessly takes licenses from others with no intent to make them, continues to decrease build quality/qc, and has increased prices over 30% in the past 4 years, the better for the longer term health of a community and hobby I care for.

    Since you seem to know so much more than everyone else, can you please elaborate on which company was going to fill the void if Stern closed up shop in 2008.

    21
    #104 5 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    lol. Gary Stern ran a business. He definitely did not save anything.
    Roger Sharpe > sure that guy saved pinball. Gary Stern knew how to do 1 thing and that thing was/is the business of making pinball. Pinball machines were still on route and in bars and even in homes during those dark years. Stern make some sub par games, learned how to cut costs during that time, and cheapened the entire product.
    It is not like others had exited the industry because it was not profitable. It merely was not as profitable as other areas where they could leverage the same manufacturing expertise.

    ANY company that came along and decided it was a market space they wanted to be in. You can easily predict the alternate history... A previous company could have started back up. Multiple new companies could have started. The reality we now see would likely not be much different in number of players if Stern had closed shop.
    Do you really think JJP and spooky only entered the market because Stern was still around? They entered the market despite Stern being the big player with a history of how they act.
    I gotta say, it really is not that big of a void to fill... From 2000 to 2010 they made ~30 different titles. How many of those are currently considered good? 3 maybe 4 if you are a stern lover.
    LOTR, TSPP, Spidey, Tron
    All the rest is largely junk titles that nobody really seeks out or rates highly now. Stern during the dark years is not very good...

    Really not that big a void to fill? Let's see:

    JJP...got bailed out not once, but twice, before their 2nd game shipped.

    Spooky...500 machines a year can't fill the void Stern would've left. Spooky found their niche and they stick with it.

    Dutch Pinball...disaster.

    Zidware...disaster.

    Heighway Pinball...disaster...one you shilled for.

    Skit B...disaster...another one you shilled for.

    American Pinball...came on the scene well after the resurgence.

    Deep Root Pinball...see above.

    You also mention only 4 good titles from Stern pre-2010...yet, you leave out games like NASCAR, Pirates, Sopranos, Elvis, Avatar, Austin Powers, etc...

    I don't speak for everyone, but I'm sure i speak for enough people, that say they would not own a pinball machine if Stern had closed up shop. My first machine was Transformers LE. I would've never purchased a used machine from the 90's. Out of my 13 machines, I only have one that is pre-2010. (For full disclosure, my Iron Man VE was the 2015 run and I own Spider-Man VE).

    The new pinball market is how this hobby expands. You can't expand a hobby with a fixed number of machines. New machines, allow new purchasers to enter the market.

    #105 5 years ago
    Quoted from guymontag451:

    This is it. Some people think that if Stern never actually makes a Godzilla pin, then it was a mistake. However, in a hobby where units are only manufactured in the hundreds or the low thousands, every machine not sold by another company is a big win. Literally millions of dollars. These are low production, high cost machines. Clearly the Stern people knew that this game might've been Spooky's best, given how much they covet it. They would have put everything they had into, maybe it would have been an instant classic pin. Stern would lose not only the revenue that Spooky sold on those games, but also on their current games on the production line. Most people, collectors and operators alike, don't have the capital to buy every new release. They have to make decisions.
    So a game bought from Spooky isn't just money that Stern didn't make, it's also potentially a machine that Stern would have sold in its place. It's like taking a vacation if you work a job without paid time off benefits. It really costs you double. The money spent while on vacation, but also the lost revenue whilst you were away.

    To expand on your well thought on post, let's look at Skit B, Heighway Pinball, and Dutch Pinball. How many hundreds of thousands of dollars were flat out wasted? That money could've went to Stern, Spooky, JJP, and American Pinball, instead of money being spent on purely nothing.

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