I’m not sure if I understand the logic behind this statement. Given the long and mutually fruitful relationship the parties enjoyed I would say that would make someone far less inclined to bad mouth the other person...not more inclined.

I understand Jack felt mistreated by the LOTR LE situation...but that is a different issue entirely from some of the things Jack was saying before WOZ started shipping...

That's what i thought...

Take out the numeric displays , different operating system , Translite instead of backglass , a cheaper way of controlling the leds . There was plenty of ways to strip back TNA , none of which Scott wanted to happen to his game .

Hard to believe licenses can just be purchased without a commitment to making a game, but I guess anyone takes the money if get an offer to make money from one end user.

My God I bet you also say "it's not what you said but how you said it" "that"s different "

With only 97 Pinsiders participating the thread need relevance of the thread in the poll

I have no knowledge of what went down....if it was a private negotiation and Stern crashed it then yeah it’s a dick move.

Now if the truth is there was a gentleman’s agreement that Stern would not pursue the license and the meeting was not private but for others to make offers then it’s business....dick move still but even shittier by rubbing it in if there is no intention by Stern to make the game.

All these politics and secrecy leave a sour taste in my mouth. Spooky has always said they are not interested in being the big dog and taking down Stern. Well all this tells me is the niche market Spooky is selling to IS hurting Stern. Yeah there are more titles and games selling than there has been in a long time but understand we are talking small numbers of each title being produced so all these companies need every sale they can to survive.

Captain obvious here but the smaller companies have to secure a license that is a hit or do killer original themes and they know this. Stern is the big dog and will protect their interests. If it costs Stern money to buy a license that prevents a competitor from cutting into their sales that’s what they are gonna do. Gary truly has a passion for pinball but his bigger obsession is obviously money and the legacy and survival of the company. That’s business.

What happens more often than not is Spooky (or any other company) will talk to a license. Said license will then "want to look around" which means see if anybody else will give them a better deal. This inevitably leads to Stern. Who then realize some other company does have interest in said license, causing Stern to pounce and remove it as an option for the competition.

And yes Stern will sit on desirable licenses just to prevent others from using it. Of the titles they've sniped only Munsters has become real.

I wish they would use the rumoured Jurassic World licence they have supposedly had for years.

Just don’t tell me they are sitting on Fast and Furious because I’d like to see that as a reality some day.

I think this is a legit question.

Someone from Stern really needs to chime in here:

Is your company indeed evil, and if so, why?

Well Spooky better not blabbermouth about any Jaws licensing when going that route.

With Spooky, they had already been declaring it a dream theme well before they were a pinball company. Their podcast predates their manufacturing by quite a bit. Ever since they started making games, they've kept quiet about what they're licensing to build a game.

Can you list off titles that Stern sniped and not used? Curious.

I don't feel that's my place to say.

If Stern pays more or commits faster, that's just business.

Yeah I see your point.

Pays more, commits faster OR have something better to offer.

With new movies there is shared benefit of publicity that goes both ways. I know pinball is very niche. But it is clear that Stern has far more reach out and sells far more games of any particular model.

So, the new movie is a bit of the problem for Spooky. Sure it would have been nice for them, had they landed the license, with some general Godzilla buzz. But, I still assume they would have themed off the Japanese movies. Maybe even the old ones only.

Those are separate licenses, I believe.

alice has some advice for everyone who realizes that pinball manufacturing is a business.

nomoremrniceguy.jpg

While SWLE was my last new Stern pinball due to the fact that the LE machine was stripped IMO, I don't see any problem with the free enterprise system. If/When Stern gets too greedy the market will change, but as of now Stern is killing it. I, for one, see more value in the remakes from CGC. My AFMLE has a far superior light show, display, and sound system along with a better cabinet build than anything Stern makes and it was cheaper as well. Of course, the remake market is only so big. I am also finding good value in some older mint Williams machines such as NGG.

I think we are in a bubble as far as the pinball market goes and when the correction comes it will be significant. We will see how Stern and everyone else survives it.

Re-arrange the letters and there SERTN!!! lol

Nuclear-Devil-Horns (resized).jpg

Stern is not going to answer either of these questions for you, nor should they.

I think Stern’s 90% LTV Stated Income/ Stated Asset loan program will bite them in the ass in the long run.

One question here:
Is there any evidence that Stern, having paid good money for the Godzilla rights, doesn't intend to make it? And if so, will someone please tell the rest of us what it is already?!?

Unless what everyone means is that Stern's planning a pin based on the new Godzilla movie and is covering their bases so that a competing Godzilla project doesn't pop up, in which case that seems like a reasonable business move and not particularly scandalous.

I am surprised they are borrowing any money at this point. I think about how many $6-$8k machines leaving the door daily and what the total overhead would be. It would help a lot if they would move out of the communist country of Chicago to a more tax friendly city/state.

It's fine to buy a license, but to barge in on someone else's meeting is extremely disrespectful and unprofessional. But hey, "that guy" has never been too concerned with being anything other than a jerk.

Jezus christ wat kind of tread is this.
Stern evil hell no.
Just as evil as every other manufacture.
THE WANT TO SELL AS MANY GAMES AS THE CAN JUST AS EVERY OTHER MANUFACTURE.

It’s a bunch of sensational posts with zero evidence to back them made by people with axes to grind and zero understanding of how business works. I do feel bad for Charlie that he didn’t get the license since it was a dream theme for him, but he’s not the only one that’s ever lost out on a license. If Stern see’s value in a license and think they may want to produce it in the future they have every right to try and obtain it, even if another company has previously expressed interest. With the number of new companies making pinball machines, Stern has probably decided they need to be more aggressive going after desirable licenses.

^^^^This guy gets it

Ugg Munsters...we're really scrapping the bottom of the barrel here what's next is JJP doing MASH! lol

mash_alda_hed (resized).jpg

Well. I wouldn't say zero evidence. Both Spooky Charlie and Robert Mueller have commented on this. Of course you can refuse this as evidence, if you like.

Yes, there are circumstantial evidence and assumptions at current. But it doesn't mean that it cannot be debated under those terms. I agree, things tend to drift on a forum like this one. But still.

"How business works". Well, wouldn't you agree, that, generally speaking, any business may face a lose due to unethical behaviour. And vice versa. I certainly hope so.

here is some footage of a 'meeting' from the 2018 licensing expo. at 7:33 someone interrupts. 'ill call you next week'. probably happens all the time in such an informal setting.

is this really what took place instead?
a private meeting, behind closed doors, and someone barges in?

I'd prefer a One Crazy Summer theme anyway. Plus you get the best Godzilla of them all....Bobcat Zilla...

bobcat-goldthwait-one-crazy-summ1 (resized).jpg

One Crazy Summer, holy cow I haven't thought about that movie in a long time. I must have watched that movie at least a few dozen times as a kid.

Getting the pinball through a ring, i.e. throwing the ball up to the mast, would be a super fun toy.

Did Charlie or Robert Mueller say that Stern told them it has no plans to make a Godzilla pin? Or did they specify why they think Stern won’t actually use the license? I’m honestly asking, haven’t heard the podcast, but so far in this thread it just seems to be people speculating that the game will never be made without ever saying why they think that’s the case.

All the smack people are talking Gary is a bad guy boo lol I have no dought if Jack snagged a title from Gary in the same manner Pinside would have a very different reaction. There would be a party on Pinside with few condemning Jack

perphas.
but what if Jack snagged it from spooky/charlie,
as is the case being discussed here?

What I see there being zero evidence of is that Stern buys licenses with the intention of not making them into a game. This has been stated as fact by many but no person has named one brand that Stern licensed IP from and didn’t use.

I somewhat recall some saying Stern had the license for Jaws a couple years ago, if true that would be one license they had that wasn’t made for whatever reason. Any others?

Stern is the only company that can manufacture enough volume and in a timely manner to work with current popular titles. They should get this license with the new movie coming out.

After thinking about it for a day, I'm willing to concede Stern is indeed evil

But I think it's more like a JR Ewing evil than a Hitler evil.

Cunning, charming, but gets results. Keeps friends close but enemies closer. The pin geniuses you love to hate, always one step ahead of the competition!

Yep, that's Stern. Does that make the other companies CLiff Barnes? Sad sacks who always lose and never blame themselves for their failings?

Gee I hope not. I do think we can all agree DP is the drunken Sue Ellen of this bunch.

The only reason people want to know what the licenses are is so they can whine about what themes Stern ISN'T making.

Well we need something to talk about.

THere's a new Deadpool reveal we can bitch about! SHould quiet things down here for a bit.

Wow you still don't get it if Gary steals from Spooky or Spooky steals from Jack or Jack steals from Gary it is all the same. If you don't see that then get off your high horse as wanting rules selectively enforced is BS

I vote EVIL!

If it's a slap at Spooky, then I guess we're doing something right. I don't judge an entire company with a ton of friends in it by the actions of 1 or a few.

Nuff' said. I got it off my chest, and time to move on. FAR more good than bad happening here!

And you really think Stern just came up with the idea of a vinyl release and mix tape for Deadpool as part of a pinball release... in complete isolation?

Except for the whole Dick move by Jody not showing respect for other vendors... That's where they crossed the line.

Competition is 'just business' - disrespect is not 'just business'.

WHO GIVES A SHIT?

Seems like You'd WANT companies to be stealing good ideas from each other.

And Vinyl is a million times cooler than cassette. Steal and improve.

"Competition is good for pinball," remember? It's what we always hear whenever anybody besides Stern does anything.

You literally don't know a thing, so stop claiming others don't. Stern doesn't have the cleanest hands.

Ugh, fine...let's just get it out there. Most of Stern Pinball is fantastic. But Jody Dankberg. Yes, JODY DANKBERG OF STERN PINBALL, is a total jackass and the industry would be a better place without him. He's an egotistical jerkwad. He's the main source for the hate Stern pinball catches behind the scenes, and he was a big part of the sour attitude fans had for Stern for years.

Gary can be rough and he can let his ego get out of control as well, but Jody is the real bad apple. Sucks that he can't be rooted out. Yeah, I know you see this Jody. Hi, buddy. You're awful. You know you deserve to hear this. You know it better than most anybody. But we know too.

Edit: Google keywords to make sure when he's googling himself he sees it: jody dankberg, jody pinball, jody stern, jody dankberg pinball stern, stern pinball jody dankberg, jody dankberg jerk

I haven't read every post and I don't have a dog in the race, only logical non-emotional thinking, so maybe someone has pointed these points out already. Obviously, I'm not privy to closed door meetings, I just have public statements to go off of. After listening to the podcast, something really strikes me as odd that a lot of people seem to be missing.

1. Toho has the final say with who they want to do business. Not Spooky, not Stern. Simply being the highest bidder is not always the reason someone acquires a license. There are too many other factors at play especially when companies are presenting value propositions of why their company would be able to maximize a license. As much as Stern swooped in and grabbed the license, Toho decided not to do business with Spooky and chose Stern's offer instead.

2. Toho has indicated they want to expand globally. This directly contradicts what Spooky talked about in their podcast as they focused on the American market discussing how poorly Toho does in America. Spooky's podcast (around 7:30) indicated that the Godzilla theme does not match up with being a major title that will sell thousands of games in their view. Spooky gave no indication that they would move to mass produce games on a global scale for this license and push into foreign territories as around 15:15 they mention there's a non-existent pinball market in Japan and that the game will be aimed at American audiences. Again, this directly contradicts what Toho has stated publicly their intentions are with this license on various products and expanding to other marketplaces. Basically Stern is going to enter an arena that's completely untapped.

Toho's goal isn't to provide their license to a business that really wants it. Toho's stated goal is to focus marketing activities towards the Tokyo Olympic Games in 2020, expand into China, and expand into a global market. This includes using new avenues to allow Godzilla to reach new demographics, they've said this repeatedly in interviews. Again, which company is in a better position to begin further expansion into the Japanese and Chinese demographics with a top tier license for that area? If you're Toho and looking at the portfolios of both companies, who do you have the most confidence in moving forward? If you're Stern, what better theme is there to introduce into these markets?