(Topic ID: 272490)

Is stern blacklisting people?

By majicman110

4 years ago


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  • 632 posts
  • 137 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Lamberger
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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    There are 632 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 13.
    #251 4 years ago

    I don't see what the issue is. Seems simple.

    Stern didn't want images out before the game was released so they could market the way they wanted. That's their right. If they are smart they will adjust how they hand out promo data etc so they don't have to spend time asking people to take things down. Simple as having people sign NDA's....put some risk in it for the people leaking stuff.

    Anyone can stream a game that they own at a location that they own. If you want to stream from someone else's location of course you need permission.

    If you have a toxic drama filled stream/podcast expect to be treated as such. Some people certainly flock to drama so it may be good for getting views, but not everyone enjoys it. Certainly don't expect a good business relationship with manufacturers since they have plenty of other people to work with. Big difference between constructive criticism or "it's just not my thing" and bashing.

    #252 4 years ago

    Whats wrong with bashing?? I let the GF bash mine every chance we get and it always ends up with a happy ending

    13
    #253 4 years ago

    It's clear that Stern is taking an aggressive stance against internet criticism, which is always a losing bet.

    That, on top of the Zak conflict of interests and selective ifpa (Stern) decisions, is pushing people away from the supposed lifestyle brand, not bringing them in. To me, they are leveraging their market share and could pay in the end.

    Even a lot of the old Stern fanboys are coming around. I just upvoted Who-Dey FFS. If Hazoff gets on side, Stern is in real trouble!

    #254 4 years ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    LOL there are a whole 88 Pinsiders participating in this thread many taking Sterns side they must be shaking in there boots
    [quoted image]

    A certain company is angry and cares enough to directly come after people.

    You think this is some random marketing guy making these decisions?

    88 Pinsiders participating in this thread. Let's do a loose estimate and say multiply by 10 the number who are reading/lurking and don't want to post.

    How many machines does this company sell? Soft sales, probably a few hundred. Hard sales, maybe a few thousand.

    Many operators are offline or struggling in the current health crisis (and almost certainly more lockdowns of arcades to come with Wave 2, 3, etc). This leaves the HUO market as the current Golden Goose as it were.

    Do the math: 900 readers of this thread is a significant chunk of the Target Market.

    IMO, these moves restricting content and banning criticism in the media stink of generally declining sales to me. The timing of these moves, coinciding with the general collapse of Operator purchases of machines is uncanny. IMO, somebody with some power is concerned about sales and is scapegoating particular individuals because they believe these individuals are the cause of these decreased sales.

    This is misguided and is just leading to decreasing customer loyalty and goodwill in the community.

    We are not stupid. We know what's going on.

    #255 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballer67:

    A certain company is angry and cares enough to directly come after people.
    You think this is some random marketing guy making these decisions?
    88 Pinsiders participating in this thread. Let's do a loose estimate and say multiply by 10 the number who are reading/lurking and don't want to post.
    How many machines does this company sell? Soft sales, probably a few hundred. Hard sales, maybe a few thousand.
    Many operators are offline or struggling in the current health crisis (and almost certainly more lockdowns of arcades to come with Wave 2, 3, etc). This leaves the HUO market as the current Golden Goose as it were.
    Do the math: 900 readers of this thread is a significant chunk of the Target Market.
    IMO, these moves restricting content and banning criticism in the media stink of generally declining sales to me. The timing of these moves, coinciding with the general collapse of Operator purchases of machines is uncanny. IMO, somebody with some power is concerned about sales and is scapegoating particular individuals because they believe these individuals are the cause of these decreased sales.
    This is misguided and is just leading to decreasing customer loyalty and goodwill in the community.
    We are not stupid. We know what's going on.

    Pinsider autoerotic revenge porn fantasy math. We see this every stern bash thread.

    “Well if you look at X, and multiply it by Y, then you get Z! AND THATS SERIOUSLY BAD NEWS for stern!!!”

    So yes, once again, for the 789th time, Stern will be bankrupt in a month. If only they hadn’t dared to cross Cary Hardy!!

    #256 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    If only they hadn’t dared to cross Cary Hardy!!

    Pinside currently.

    47mqt5 (resized).jpg47mqt5 (resized).jpg
    #257 4 years ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    It's clear that Stern is taking an aggressive stance against internet criticism, which is always a losing bet.

    Again, how is that clear? What proof do we have that Stern is retaliating against people for criticizing them?

    #258 4 years ago
    Quoted from Dr-Willy:

    Pinside currently.[quoted image]

    I busted out laughing!

    10
    #259 4 years ago

    It would be cool if Stern started a merit badge system called The Stern Defense League. They track all your positive comments and then when you hit certain goals you get a merit badge.

    -1
    #260 4 years ago
    Quoted from porkcarrot:

    Again, how is that clear? What proof do we have that Stern is retaliating against people for criticizing them?

    According to Cary Hardy Stern asked a location not to allow him to stream Turtles due to his past criticism of Stern games.

    Update: It may have been the location, and not Stern, that asked Cary not to stream. Some of the content in the first video seemed to be based on speculation.

    #261 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Pinsider autoerotic revenge porn fantasy math. We see this every stern bash thread.
    “Well if you look at X, and multiply it by Y, then you get Z! AND THATS SERIOUSLY BAD NEWS for stern!!!”
    So yes, once again, for the 789th time, Stern will be bankrupt in a month. If only they hadn’t dared to cross Cary Hardy!!

    Once again, this isn't a stern bash thread. I was just asking what information/experiences people were having. Was trying to put pieces of a puzzle together (or see if they fit together at all) to see if there was a reason why these things are all happening in succession.

    #262 4 years ago

    Interesting thread. I am surprised at the reaction of some people to other people on the internet expressing negatives about a product. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Sometimes they are very informed opinions and other times drivel. Nobody likes being on the receiving end of a negative comment/opinion but the best strategy is to respond with a constructive counter opinion or respond in a positive matter to the comment. Address the matter being discussed. Of course negative commentary affects a product just as positive comments do. So businesses need to be ahead of the curve. There is a reason that a well organized and thought out marketing/communications strategy is so important for companies. That is one area that Stern is lacking in. I like their games (quality of newer stuff is a little disheartening) but most of the big stuff people complain about Can be easily addressed in their manufacturing chain. Stuff like artwork and design direction will always be a matter of opinion - not much can be done there.

    #263 4 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    According to Cary Hardy Stern asked a location not to allow him to stream Turtles due to his past criticism of Stern games.

    1. Someone making an accusation is not proof of anything.
    2. He didn't even say that. He said the location told him there was a conflict of interest and an issue with content in his previous videos. But, they did not say what the issue was. Cary and others are making the assumption that it was because of criticism. I don't know what he said or did in these videos so I can't speak to that directly. Just pointing out that there is no proof Stern blocked this because of criticism.

    #264 4 years ago
    Quoted from porkcarrot:

    It seems like a lot of the comments here are based on the idea that all Stern is doing is attacking the people posting the leaked images. As if they are totally ignoring where the leaks are coming from. Do you really think they haven't thought of that and aren't working to stop it?
    I don't know what their process is so I can't speak to how the leaks are happening. I have to assume most of the randos on these forums also don't actually know. But there is pretty much no chance Stern thinks that just trying to stop people from posting is going to stop the issues. That said, taking actions to punish those who do post leaks is a valid part of a greater plan. All this talk is doing one thing, it is making all of us aware that if you post leaked images of Stern's stuff, you might get banned from Facebook.

    I dont think they care that much about leaks. It's more about critique.
    Does anybody really think hardy for example would be under attack if he was a total sternyan?
    In fact, maybe it would be a smart strategy continue with leaks and then have a reason to attack thoose who rank your product poorly.

    #265 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Pinsider autoerotic revenge porn fantasy math. We see this every stern bash thread.
    “Well if you look at X, and multiply it by Y, then you get Z! AND THATS SERIOUSLY BAD NEWS for stern!!!”
    So yes, once again, for the 789th time, Stern will be bankrupt in a month. If only they hadn’t dared to cross Cary Hardy!!

    I never said Stern would be bankrupt in a month.

    And...to be fair re: your comment about Pinsider autoerotic whatever crap you sprayed at me...we see you posting and standing up for the Army in every thread that deigns to criticize this company.

    If you don't think this is personal, if you don't think people high up at Stern are involved in these moves, if you don't think people are being pursued and hunted down -- IMO you are mistaken.

    #266 4 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    According to Cary Hardy Stern asked a location not to allow him to stream Turtles due to his past criticism of Stern games.

    That cant be true! How does this video exist? I swear i just heard crazylevi claim that it was a bullshit rumor that i made up. Pretty sure this video isn't real.

    Sorry. I will go back to starting my youtube channel and or podcast now
    (I'm really good at it)

    #267 4 years ago
    Quoted from majicman110:

    That cant be true! How does this video exist? I swear i just heard crazylevi claim that it was a bullshit rumor that i made up. Pretty sure this video isn't real.
    Sorry. I will go back to starting my youtube channel and or podcast now
    (I'm really good at it)

    You don’t know what “evidence” means.

    None has been provided.

    You are simply spreading made up rumors based upon zero credible evidence.

    Please start your YouTube channel. There is clearly an insatiable appetite around here for this kind of nonsense.

    #268 4 years ago
    Quoted from porkcarrot:

    1. Someone making an accusation is not proof of anything.
    2. He didn't even say that. He said the location told him there was a conflict of interest and an issue with content in his previous videos. But, they did not say what the issue was. Cary and others are making the assumption that it was because of criticism. I don't know what he said or did in these videos so I can't speak to that directly. Just pointing out that there is no proof Stern blocked this because of criticism.

    Welcome to the thread. Take your comment and add it to the fact that Kaneda said he believes Stern contacted his employer. Then watch the video of Gary Stern yelling at people for recording footage of Stranger Things at a pinball show, look at the screengrabs of Zack Sharpe messaging people, and listen to the poor man's pinball podcast where they had the flipppin and mashing guys on.

    Then think about if these things (some of which have not been proven) are at all related and if there is a trend of odd behavior. Then form an opinion or theory, combine it with any personal experiences and share it with the group.

    Thank you for participating in the point of this thread.

    #269 4 years ago
    Quoted from majicman110:

    That cant be true! How does this video exist? I swear i just heard crazylevi claim that it was a bullshit rumor that i made up. Pretty sure this video isn't real.
    Sorry. I will go back to starting my youtube channel and or podcast now
    (I'm really good at it)

    What happened to Cary reminds me of what occurs regularly in video games media. I've been following a video game website / podcast for a decade called Giant Bomb and they don't hold back when it comes to criticism. This approach had led to Giant Bomb not receiving free games (review copies) from some publishers as well as not being invited to some industry related events. Some of these game companies prefer to deal with YouTubers that will not say anything bad about their products. Giant Bomb loses out on the freebies and doesn't care as they have integrity and the respect of a growing audience.

    To get around the situation above Giant Bomb just buys their own copy of the game, problem solved and they keep their integrity. That's a bit harder to do with a $6k - $9k pinball machine versus a $60 video game. If Carl buys his own Turtles, or goes to another location / friends house he can stream all he wants. The problem Cary encountered may be with a location that is somehow partnered with Stern or at least getting freebies from them for launch parties.

    On a side note the co-founder of Giant Bomb, Jeff Gerstmann, was once fired from GameSpot after working their for 10+ years due to his criticism of a game in a video review where the publisher of the game was providing ad dollars to GameSpot. That caused a huge uproar back then and led to a ton of fans leaving GameSpot and then Jeff eventually forming Giant Bomb.

    #271 4 years ago

    Opinion dynamics, influence of social platforms over markets has been actualized! The mavens of home operant has taken place! Let the oratorio of voices be heard! Praise to dissident Hardy & Rebel known as Kaneda! Pinball must be set free! Strike down the evil overlords of pinball!

    -1
    #272 4 years ago
    Quoted from majicman110:

    Wow. I didn't say that Stern toppers are a scam. I said the JP topper and its price were ridiculous. I absolutely don't have an anti Stern bias. I don't have an issue with any other Stern topper. Since you kindly asked my opinion (i know you didn't) I think that it is implied that when you buy a Jurassic Park limited edition you are paying a premium to get all of the bells and whistles. The most complete version of the game if you will That is absolutely how they are marketed. Evidence of this is that mechanically it isn't any different from the premium. Therefore you have a customer that already paid that premium so they could get everything and now they find out that they have th o pay more in order to get the topper or they won't have complete code. That, in my opinion, sounds like a scam.
    I can think that, and express that opinion. That doesn't make it malicious. That doesn't mean I am anti Stern and your assertion that because I have this opinion about the jp topper, that my "opinions about Stern must go beyond one topper" is a nonsensical premise.
    My grandfather worked for Chrysler his entire career. We currently own two Jeeps. I like Jeeps. But I can also acknowledge that they put garbage transmissions in their cars. I have a friend with a 2017 Grand Cherokee that is already on its third transmission. All of these things can be true.
    That topper has its own thread so can we move on?
    To address the rest of your comment; the leaks come from Stern. So if they don't want them to happen, then tighten the ship. They are the license holder. It is their responsibility to make sure the leaks don't get out. So how about they don't send out images to people before the reveal?

    I guess we think different. When you buy an LE or any pin, you know exactly what you are buying. You are getting what comes in the box with the features clearly listed for the advertised price. No where is it implied that you get anything else. I think that is the root of issue. People see a theme they like, buy, and then expect Stern to make them happy after they sale. Don't buy unless you are completely satisfied with what you are getting at that exact moment.

    I do agree that Stern should control their leaks internally and I'm sure they try to do so. Problem is I'm sure Stern has to release some information for suppliers, retailers, and marketing. It's easy to say Stern should be handling these things better but easier said than done.

    #273 4 years ago
    Quoted from majicman110:

    Kaneda said he believes Stern contacted his employer.

    That's what he said on his pinball podcast. Then on the NEO GEO board he blamed it on them.

    Who you going to believe, Kaneda or Kaneda?

    #274 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You don’t know what “evidence” means.
    None has been provided.
    You are simply spreading made up rumors based upon zero credible evidence.
    Please start your YouTube channel. There is clearly an insatiable appetite around here for this kind of nonsense.

    Ah but you don't know that it 100% isn't true, so to call it a "made up rumor" isn't correct either.

    It is a rumor. That is the definition. If we know it is either made up or true, it ia rumor anymore.

    Please go on a quest to have all rumors removed from pinside

    #275 4 years ago
    Quoted from zombieyeti:

    But again I admittedly have a bias against Podcasts and a pro bias towards Stern thanks to my experiences working with them...The amount of work & effort that goes into making these games by every team member doesn’t allow for much outside of constant work..

    I agree.. all these podcasts are just noise right now, and I suspect once people can actually go out and play pinball regularly again, a lot of this hubbub will die down. Whining about getting a smackdown when you post stuff that isn't yours to post is just juvenile. I enjoy a leak as much as the next pinball fan, but I don't expect them and I don't cry when the leakers get shut down.

    Now, OTOH, Stern blaming leakers and podcasters for low sales on crappy games... that's also a no-go with me. Podcasts don't make a game bad... untested design, boring rules, lack of content, bad art... those all make crappy games. Listen to your customers instead of the casters and make what we want. Listen when your customers complain about crap like STH's add-on UV kit and don't pull that shit in the future. Warring with talking heads is a waste of time.

    #276 4 years ago
    Quoted from majicman110:

    Ah but you don't know that it 100% isn't true, so to call it a "made up rumor" isn't correct either.
    It is a rumor. That is the definition. If we know it is either made up or true, it ia rumor anymore.
    Please go on a quest to have all rumors removed from pinside

    Enjoy your 15 minutes of pinside Fame.

    A “when did Stern stop beating its wife” thread is the easiest pop on pinside. But the glory fades. And you will soon feel the cruel emptiness of this reality!

    12
    #277 4 years ago
    Quoted from TheCapn:

    Just to clarify. My first thoughts of the game were from the leaked images. Which weren't in hatred form, but a little let down. I state and hoped it was due to poor quality pictures. THE NEXT DAY the game is fully revealed with HD images and video - it looks great and I posted a video THAT DAY with even the thumbnail stating "I WAS WRONG". I even apologized for doubting your art. My thoughts as of right now are still mostly positive for TMNT.
    If someone can take anything away from leaked images - it would be to wait for HD ones to get a better idea on what the game looks like.

    Sounds like a reasonable adult response to me.

    You bring up a great point though, which everyone has been ignoring in this rush to say "all leaks and publicity are good!", and it's that the leaked images actually looked pretty crummy. They were washed out caps from a video, and didn't do justice to Jeremy's work.

    Yes, the next day better ones dropped, and everyone here revised their thinking, but you never get a second chance to make a first impression. It was shitty for Jeremy to have his work spoiled like that.

    I don't listen to any pinball podcasts, I really don't care about sides in this silly war, I'm just empathic as an artist to knowing how crummy it feels to do all this hard work and then have someone do something that spoils it in a bad light. Stern isn't a big faceless company, they're just people and enthusiasts too. Jeremy took the time to post in this thread, and got downvotes and accusations of bias for his trouble. Come on.

    Leaks are nothing new. But we used to pass them around quietly, not play social media ball buster. If you ask me the problem isn't even the leaks, it's people spending too much time on Facebook and clout chasing. This is a small hobby, everyone knows each other through a connection or two. Why not aim for just a little more respect?

    #278 4 years ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    I guess we think different. When you buy an LE or any pin, you know exactly what you are buying. You are getting what comes in the box with the features clearly listed for the advertised price. No where is it implied that you get anything else. I think that is the root of issue. People see a theme they like, buy, and then expect Stern to make them happy after they sale. Don't buy unless you are completely satisfied with what you are getting at that exact moment.
    I do agree that Stern should control their leaks internally and I'm sure they try to do so. Problem is I'm sure Stern has to release some information for suppliers, retailers, and marketing. It's easy to say Stern should be handling these things better but easier said than done.

    That is one of the weird things with pinball. It isn't sold as a completed project. I have heard at least a dozen people say, "I got the game, it kinda sucks now, but when coder x finishes the game it will be amazing." So this kind of stuff is inevitable in a way.

    #279 4 years ago

    Kaneda & Hardy, Fight the power!

    E52F6ECF-8AF9-4D10-90F5-75B3E3A72D2A (resized).jpegE52F6ECF-8AF9-4D10-90F5-75B3E3A72D2A (resized).jpeg
    #280 4 years ago
    Quoted from Monte:

    Kaneda & Hardy, Fight the power!
    [quoted image]

    Tooooo Funnnnny!!!

    -1
    #281 4 years ago
    Quoted from TheCapn:

    Just to clarify. My first thoughts of the game were from the leaked images. Which weren't in hatred form, but a little let down. I state and hoped it was due to poor quality pictures. THE NEXT DAY the game is fully revealed with HD images and video - it looks great and I posted a video THAT DAY with even the thumbnail stating "I WAS WRONG".

    Which basically justifies the takedown notices. YOU gave people a bad first impression of Stern and Nick/Viacom's property. YOU helped cement an initial negative impression using pictures stolen from Stern. Yea you can go back and recant that crap, but you can never take back a first impression.

    Why do y'all youtubers and podcasters think you have a right to go screwing up other peoples' work like that? Let them launch their own products!

    #282 4 years ago
    Quoted from majicman110:

    Welcome to the thread. Take your comment and add it to the fact that Kaneda said he believes Stern contacted his employer. Then watch the video of Gary Stern yelling at people for recording footage of Stranger Things at a pinball show, look at the screengrabs of Zack Sharpe messaging people, and listen to the poor man's pinball podcast where they had the flipppin and mashing guys on.
    Then think about if these things (some of which have not been proven) are at all related and if there is a trend of odd behavior. Then form an opinion or theory, combine it with any personal experiences and share it with the group.
    Thank you for participating in the point of this thread.

    1. Kaneda is not credible. Nothing he says about himself can be relied upon.
    2. I searched, but was unable to find this video of Gary Stern. If someone posts it, I'll watch it. But, even sight unseen likely his concern is about content being revealed. Seems like a poor move when it comes to having a game at a major show, but that has nothing at all to do with criticism, that's something totally different.
    3. I haven't seen screen grabs of Zach Sharpe messaging people in this thread. The only thing I saw was something supposedly shared by Kaneda, again, not credible. And even that wasn't from Zach, that was someone mentioning him.
    4. I listed to the flippen and mashing show where they talked about being banned on facebook. They said clearly and openly that they shared leaked photos. They went so far as to save the images and repost them because what they tried to share had already been removed. That's not a criticism issue, that is a sharing leaked content issue.

    I see evidence that Stern is going after people for leaking their stuff. I don't see enough to take the next step and say it is retaliation for criticism.

    10
    #283 4 years ago

    so this is the latest, 'I'm going to stop buying Stern", "This is going to hurt Stern', "their quality sucks not buying another Stern" thread, and as usually will just be talk.

    Right now you have two new games, TMNT and Hot Wheels, similar themes at similar price points and based on early reviews from those who have played, both are fun games. Looking at pinside numbers, seems clear folks are lining up to buy TMNT Pro, by more than 3 to 1 over Hot Wheels, without having played either game. So finally someone trying to compete with Stern on price, who does not seem to have the same abundance of quality issues, but, folks are still 'Stern, take my money'. Just seems no matter what Stern does, and how much folks bitch and moan, they line up like lemmings to fork over their money. Until folks take their money elsewhere, Stern has no real reason to change their tactics, pricing, quality.

    Maybe someday that will change, but hard to see it, given that folks quickly look past every Stern screw up.

    #284 4 years ago

    I’m loving this thread. So glad it was created. Cary on. Get it?

    D228CF42-B3CB-4464-A009-2B3912615AE9 (resized).jpegD228CF42-B3CB-4464-A009-2B3912615AE9 (resized).jpeg
    #285 4 years ago

    TIL who Cary Hardy is. I've seen the name a few times and always thought people were talking about a chick.

    #286 4 years ago

    Don’t bully Cary guys. If he quits rambling into his webcam we are going to miss out on hot takes and insight like, “I dunno guys.... it just doesn’t do it for me. Smash that like button!”

    #287 4 years ago

    Man the Stern hardcore protect the hive with the best of them. You guys really need to calm the rage and stand down the defense force. Cary gave Stern the biggest endorsement he could give and slapped his money down and went NIB. This place still loses their minds over the most benign things when it comes to Stern.

    #288 4 years ago
    Quoted from BillySastard:

    TIL who Cary Hardy is. I've seen the name a few times and always thought people were talking about a chick.

    Yea but he's our chick

    #289 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Please start your YouTube channel. There is clearly an insatiable appetite around here for this kind of nonsense.

    Pretty sure Kman’s podcast was started from this type of comment. Careful what you wish for!

    #290 4 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    Man the Stern hardcore protect the hive with the best of them. You guys really need to calm the rage and stand down the defense force. Cary gave Stern the biggest endorsement he could give and slapped his money down and went NIB. This place still loses their minds over the most benign things when it comes to Stern.

    It’s not really about Stern. It’s about Cary going to a location. Making a video about a game that that location just purchased. Using that video to absolutely trash that game. Asking to come back and do another video and the location saying. Sorry. You’re bad for business. Then Cary Hardy taking from that experience “Is Stern and Pinside black listing me?!?!??” And making two videos about it. Don’t you think this all seems a little silly?

    #291 4 years ago
    Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

    It’s not really about Stern. It’s about Cary going to a location. Making a video about a game that that location just purchased. Using that video to absolutely trash that game. Asking to come back and do another video and the location saying. Sorry. You’re bad for business. Then Cary Hardy taking from that experience “Is Stern and Pinside black listing me?!?!??” And making two videos about it. Don’t you think this all seems a little silly?

    Serious question -- how would Pinside go about blacklisting YouTube videos? Are they refusing his advertising dollars or something?

    #292 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    That's what he said on his pinball podcast. Then on the NEO GEO board he blamed it on them.
    Who you going to believe, Kaneda or Kaneda?

    Quoted from spoke:

    so this is the latest, 'I'm going to stop buying Stern", "This is going to hurt Stern', "their quality sucks not buying another Stern" thread, and as usually will just be talk.
    Right now you have two new games, TMNT and Hot Wheels, similar themes at similar price points and based on early reviews from those who have played, both are fun games. Looking at pinside numbers, seems clear folks are lining up to buy TMNT Pro, by more than 3 to 1 over Hot Wheels, without having played either game. So finally someone trying to compete with Stern on price, who does not seem to have the same abundance of quality issues, but, folks are still 'Stern, take my money'. Just seems no matter what Stern does, and how much folks bitch and moan, they line up like lemmings to fork over their money. Until folks take their money elsewhere, Stern has no real reason to change their tactics, pricing, quality.
    Maybe someday that will change, but hard to see it, given that folks quickly look past every Stern screw up.

    Just want to say again that I'm not anti Stern. I didn't start this thread to be an anti stern thread. I own 4 machines, but I probably am not into pinball enough to be considered a diehard by you guys. I'm not on pinside everyday. Once or twice a week I type in "pinball" into my podcatcher and listen to a random podcast while doing yardwork or something around the house. I don't have an agenda. Every so often it seems like something happens in the hobby that seems odd. For instance, months ago there was a pinball podcast mass exodus. I don't know what it was over but it was a change that i noticed. So for awhile it was just kaneda and poor man and loser kid for me and then i started finding others. Before that there was a time when there seemed to be a lot of production quality issues across all brands.
    This topic is one that caught my attention and I found it odd. I don't listen to every podcast or watch every stream I started this thread because i noticed multiple people claiming Stern was doing stuff that I found odd. Just want to clarify that this isn't a Stern hate thread, or something I started in order to pick on them.

    #293 4 years ago
    Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

    It’s not really about Stern. It’s about Cary going to a location. Making a video about a game that that location just purchased. Using that video to absolutely trash that game. Asking to come back and do another video and the location saying. Sorry. You’re bad for business. Then Cary Hardy taking from that experience “Is Stern and Pinside black listing me?!?!??” And making two videos about it. Don’t you think this all seems a little silly?

    The bias is strong in this one. Your lack of understanding of how content creation works and its place in marketing makes it impossible to have any kind of discussion. There is a reason You Tube is what it is, there is a reason content creators make millions of dollars. Its really really good for business. If they had endorsed and supported Cary he would have posted a video how awesome TMNT was and we would all be discussing how Stern has converted him to his first NIB. It's amazing that you can not see how stupid this was of Stern.

    #294 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Serious question -- how would Pinside go about blacklisting YouTube videos? Are they refusing his advertising dollars or something?

    He claimed in first video that pinside stopped promoting his content. A sentiment he walked back in his second video.

    #295 4 years ago

    Sounds like this Cary fella needs to look up the definition of "consequences"

    Or he can simply find another location to play at, or buy the games himself, or play a friends' game...

    Stern and the location didn't shut him down, they just told him to get lost. You know... consequences.

    #296 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Serious question -- how would Pinside go about blacklisting YouTube videos? Are they refusing his advertising dollars or something?

    They can't blacklist him on You Tube they are just trying to make it hard for him to create content. It's just one more lesson Stern needs to learn that pretty much every other business figured out long ago. You have to support content creators and the more you work with them the better it is for your business.

    #297 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinballNewb:

    Pretty sure Kman’s podcast was started from this type of comment. Careful what you wish for!

    Don't worry. I don't know much about pinball. I also don't have the time, equipment or desire to start a podcast. Finally I don't know why people would care what my opinion is about anything. If you look at my history, 90% of my posts are asking what other people think.
    So you don't have anything about which to worry.

    #298 4 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    They can't blacklist him on You Tube they are just trying to make it hard for him to create content. It's just one more lesson Stern needs to learn that pretty much every other business figured out long ago. You have to support content creators and the more you work with them the better it is for your business.

    The implication was that Pinside was somehow involved, which I found ... confusing.

    [EDIT: to clarify I hadn't watched any of Cary's videos when I posted this, I was referring to another post above that said Cary was claiming Pinside had stopped promoting his videos -- having now seen the two videos it's a little hard to believe Cary could have been talking about Pinside since that's not really how this site works]

    #299 4 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Sounds like this Cary fella needs to look up the definition of "consequences"
    Or he can simply find another location to play at, or buy the games himself, or play a friends' game...
    Stern and the location didn't shut him down, they just told him to get lost. You know... consequences.

    He did buy the game himself. It just hasn't arrived yet so he was going to stream on location. I feel like you aren't actually following the thread.

    #300 4 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    There is a reason You Tube is what it is, there is a reason content creators make millions of dollars. Its really really good for business. If they had endorsed and supported Cary he would have posted a video how awesome TMNT was and we would all be discussing how Stern has converted him to his first NIB.

    So you're telling us that "content creators" are actually shills? Endorse me and get good reviews, blacklist me and FEEL THE WRATH OF MY NEGATIVE VIDEOS?!?

    Here's a tip: the real "content creators" are hard at work at Stern, JJP, American and Spooky, drawing, designing and building very fun games. Talking heads on youtube are NOT "content creators." At best, they are accessories. At worst, they're narcissist shitstirrers.

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