(Topic ID: 272490)

Is stern blacklisting people?

By majicman110

3 years ago


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  • 137 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Lamberger
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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    There are 632 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 13.
    #51 3 years ago

    I am shocked he still bought a TMNT after that happened. I would have passed or waited and bought used. Stern will never change unless sales drop. And doesn't look like that is going to happen anytime soon.

    #52 3 years ago
    Quoted from jamescardona:

    This is marketing 101, people. As an author of 9 books, I can tell you that if someone writes a negative review on a book on the day one release (God forbid if that happens before it is even released) it can seriously impact sales for the entire life of the title.
    I pissed off a fellow author once and she apparently decided her revenge was to get five fake email accounts and post 1-star negative reviews on my book about 5 seconds after it was available on amazon. If a zero-star review was available I am sure she would have used it. I protested to amazon since it was impossible that the title could have been read in 5 seconds but they refused to take them down. That title tanked, of course.
    It only makes sense for Stern or any pinball manufacturer to try to stop people who they feel are not being objective in the reviews of their products.
    Actually, what they should be doing, if they are not already, is put their products in front of more people who are objective (or supporters) so that on release you have a bunch of thorough, well-thought-out reviews on the day one product reveal so that the negative-nellies are drowned out.

    Well, why not create 5+ of your own accounts and post 5-star reviews yourself? If it's all fake bullshit then who cares? It's not that hard to do.

    We all know that YELP is, for the most part, bullshit. I can't recall how many bad/horrid restaurants I went to with 5-star ratings until I realized the reviews were fake.

    #53 3 years ago
    Quoted from Crile1:

    I am shocked he still bought a TMNT after that happened. I would have passed or waited and bought used. Stern will never change unless sales drop. And doesn't look like that is going to happen anytime soon.

    I must admit I'm interested but if the playfields are shit , I'll just skip it .

    #54 3 years ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    I honestly think stern is trying to move into a “lifestyle” brand. Make less machines and sell them for more money. Like a supercar manufacturer. Remember the Supreme game? I put a video on that games thread a while ago, showing how they became successful. I think stern is trying to switch to the sales model of “you don’t have enough to buy our game, fuck off”. I wouldn’t be surprised if the pro model gets pulled. Stern has never done well selling a more economic games. it’s the really expensive ones that put a smile on Gary’s face. You’ll have to own two previous premium games to apply for a limited edition.

    For sure. Stern is dominating and have no reason to let up.

    Not sure that makes any sense. Give up your competitive advantage to become a boutique? More people buy stern games despite of, not because they are stern... not sure that qualifies them to be a “lifestyle brand” (whatever the truck that is).

    Fact of the matter is stern is a relatively small company that probably can’t afford games being trashed by reviewers. Too much invested in developing a game. Back in the day game sales couldn’t be destroyed by a few people on the internet...

    #55 3 years ago

    I love sterns recent games and have a TMNT on order. But that being said this recent string over heavy handedness is pissing me off and its most likely them. They are going to sell a shitload of games regardless of someone posting video reviews AFTER the games official release.

    Now, the leaks would piss me off if Im Stern or any company trying to control their own launch. But thats the fault of their launch strategy and some of their distributers. They just need to figure out which distributer is leaking which is easy with watermarking and other methods. Find out who is doing that and remove their distributership. Set an example and be done with it.... Punishing the few Pinball media people we have promoting your this industry is super short sighted.

    #56 3 years ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    Not sure that makes any sense. Give up your competitive advantage to become a boutique? More people buy stern games despite of, not because they are stern... not sure that qualifies them to be a “lifestyle brand” (whatever the truck that is).

    Think Ferrari. They sell lots of “cheap” cars, but to get the great cars you’ll need to apply.

    #57 3 years ago
    Quoted from Cobray:

    Well, why not create 5+ of your own accounts and post 5-star reviews yourself? If it's all fake bullshit then who cares? It's not that hard to do.
    We all know that YELP is, for the most part, bullshit. I can't recall how many bad/horrid restaurants I went to with 5-star ratings until I realized the reviews were fake.

    Hey if you want trumped up reviews, and everthing, as Cary said is "rainbows and lollipops" just tune into the main Stern shill on The Pinball Show - buy,buy, buy

    #58 3 years ago
    Quoted from screaminr:

    I just watched the video , he was talking about a website that would not promote his videos now . Is he talking about Facebook because I've never seen pinside promote anyone's stuff .

    I could be wrong, but I think he is talking about Funwithbonus.com

    #59 3 years ago

    I was vague on the video and still have not outted the people involved because as of right now as stated in my video - this is all speculation. If I knew for a fact that said parties were purposefully being biased then I would be more inclined to out them. Even then I still don't wish harm on a small business.

    I'm keeping my Pro order. I honestly want the game. Dear God I can imagine the lash back for cancelling my order from people. "Cary of course cancelled. Just another bullshit reason to not buy a Stern game." Something like that I'm sure of it.

    I think some of you have nailed what I think the issue is too. The business is protecting themselves. They don't want to be held accountable for GIVING me the ability to possibly post a negative video. That was my initial thought too, but then I guess I started to think about it more and it turned into a "wtf is that about?!"

    The website in question can post what they want. I just find it odd that it seems there are updates posted daily and for some reason NONE of the updates over the last month have included me. It could honestly be an oversight and that is why I haven't named it.

    #60 3 years ago

    If Stern isn’t taking any of these alleged actions, I’m surprised they haven’t mentioned anything or issued some kind of statement. Seems like the obvious thing to do, but I’m not in the line of work that would make those types of decisions.

    #61 3 years ago

    I was banned from JJP FB pg what of it

    #62 3 years ago
    Quoted from Krupps4:

    If Stern isn’t taking any of these alleged actions, I’m surprised they haven’t mentioned anything or issued some kind of statement. Seems like the obvious thing to do, but I’m not in the line of work that would make those types of decisions.

    Are you out of your mind?

    You don’t respond to stupid “when did you stop beating your wife” questions.

    If stern issued a statement refuting every moronic allegation made against them on pinside they’d have to bring in about 20 communications consultants.

    #63 3 years ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    I was banned from JJP FB pg what of it

    Shocking. I doubt anyone on Pinside would be surprised (or disappointed) if you had somehow been banned from the internet.

    10
    #64 3 years ago
    Quoted from zpinman370:

    Hey if you want trumped up reviews, and everthing, as Cary said is "rainbows and lollipops" just tune into the main Stern shill on The Pinball Show - buy,buy, buy

    I don’t formally review games on The Pinball Show. We review machines on SDTM YouTube channel, which Cary also is a part of (insert conspiracy theory and suspenseful audio bumper). But, BUY BUY BUY indeed on things you love

    -8
    #65 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Are you out of your mind?
    You don’t respond to stupid “when did you stop beating your wife” questions.
    If stern issued a statement refuting every moronic allegation made against them on pinside they’d have to bring in about 20 communications consultants.

    No. I’m not out of my mind. I think this allegation is more serious than “every moronic allegation” on Pinside. It’s interfering with peoples freedom of speech. Isn’t that a constitutional right? What allegations regarding Stern similar to this one can you point to? You seemed to indicate that there are many.

    28
    #66 3 years ago
    Quoted from Krupps4:

    No. I’m not out of my mind. I think this allegation is more serious than “every moronic allegation” on Pinside. It’s interfering with peoples freedom of speech. Isn’t that a constitutional right? What allegations regarding Stern similar to this one can you point to? You seemed to indicate that there are many.

    Freedom of speech only applies to the government limiting your speech. You have no assumption of freedom of speech when posting on this web site, Facebook, YouTube, etc. They are all private companies and may allow what they wish, so long as they are not discriminating against a protected class.

    -8
    #67 3 years ago

    I predict companies are going to take a page out of left-wing extremist playbook.
    That, is. Join up, and if something is presented on facebook, youtube etc etc, they dont like, silence and exclude anyone saying anything negative.
    People who want freedom, and want to speak their mind, will be directed towards servers/forums located incountries like russia and parts of asia, using vpn threading.

    #68 3 years ago

    Sterns concern is leaked images and videos, guys. That is the core. Not reviews of now fully released games.

    I feel it is highly likely that the alledged action against an individual as layout out here, if so happened, is rooted in set individual previously publishing leaked images.

    Leaked stuff is not a joke for Stern. Causing them to not be able to run their release schedule and promotion plans as the want to. And possibly violating business agreements.

    17
    #69 3 years ago
    Quoted from soren:

    Leaked stuff is not a joke for Stern. Causing them to not be able to run their release schedule and promotion plans as the want to. And possibly violating business agreements.

    Maybe Stern should go after their distributors who are leaking the images...not the fans. A distributor has a lot to lose. Some random JoeBob on the internet doesn't stand to lose nearly as much. There will always be someone willing to share leaked photos, and Stern is going to be playing wack a mole forever if they continue on this path. Furthermore, Stern is alienating their biggest fans in the process. Stop the source of the leak, don't buy more buckets.

    If Stern would put half as much energy into cultivating goodwill with their customers as they do flaunting their arrogance, they will be much better able to weather the storm if another company does challenge them in the marketplace. Going around poking everyone in the eye is just asking for someone to come along and knock you down a rung. I thought Deeproot had a chance, but they are obviously all hat/no cattle at this point.

    #70 3 years ago
    Quoted from soren:

    Sterns concern is leaked images and videos, guys. That is the core. Not reviews of now fully released games.
    I feel it is highly likely that the alledged action against an individual as layout out here, if so happened, is rooted in set individual previously publishing leaked images.
    Leaked stuff is not a joke for Stern. Causing them to not be able to run their release schedule and promotion plans as the want to. And possibly violating business agreements.

    You are correct, however before any company starts down the path that some have, they really need to look internally at their own marketing/sales team. Start by buttoning up any info that you don't want out in public until launch. In Stern's case they really do need a good PR guy, as the ones they have now seem to be sorely lacking.

    #71 3 years ago
    Quoted from soren:

    Leaked stuff is not a joke for Stern. Causing them to not be able to run their release schedule and promotion plans as the want to. And possibly violating business agreements.

    My employer has had licensed material leaked, and the threat of having the license pulled due to leaks is very real. A smaller licensor like Stern has very little negotiating power to begin with, and the media companies can be super weird about what they think damages their property. Once I got feedback that I needed to send photos of the product itself on display in stores bc somehow we were at risk of revealing key plot points...yet they’d already approved the product to be on sale, so not sure how we could leak anything beyond what they already could figure out from the packaging. Funniest part was the property wasn’t even popular so I doubt anyone was *trying* to get spoilers.

    #72 3 years ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Freedom of speech only applies to the government limiting your speech. You have no assumption of freedom of speech when posting on this web site, Facebook, YouTube, etc. They are all private companies and may allow what they wish, so long as they are not discriminating against a protected class.

    I think the point your missing is that the allegation is that Stern is proactively contacting employers, Facebook and the like. They are interfering with their customers lives and livelihoods. Certainly, Facebook, etc. can determine their own policies, but, in this case, they are allegedly being prodded or provoked by Stern. If Stern doesn’t like leaks, do a better job of preventing them. Make a change internally, but don’t attack members of a very small community.

    #73 3 years ago
    Quoted from iloveplywood:

    Shocking. I doubt anyone on Pinside would be surprised (or disappointed) if you had somehow been banned from the internet.

    The point is people are making a fuss over no big deal but this is pinside LOL

    11
    #74 3 years ago

    If all this is true then I still don't care. Man u guys need to get ur priorities in check. Its a game, an expensive toy for us old farts. New game comes out and u like it, buy it. Is it gonna be perfect, nope. Other than that who gives a shit.

    #75 3 years ago
    Quoted from Krupps4:

    I think the point your missing is that the allegation is that Stern is proactively contacting employers, Facebook and the like. They are interfering with their customers lives and livelihoods. Certainly, Facebook, etc. can determine their own policies, but, in this case, they are allegedly being prodded or provoked by Stern. If Stern doesn’t like leaks, do a better job of preventing them. Make a change internally, but don’t attack members of a very small community.

    With the comments I have heard made about Kannada on Pinside my bet is the contacting employers was done by a Pinsider. Kannada trashed Sterns competition as well as Stern So if you want to look at pin manufacturers JJP needs to be in the conversation

    #76 3 years ago
    Quoted from Crile1:

    Stern will never change unless sales drop.

    Change from what?
    have u played Maiden and JP2 or Deadpool. All great games and TMNT looks quite amazing. What needs to change?

    #77 3 years ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    The point is people are making a fuss over no big deal but this is pinside LOL

    Hey, you're not allowed to post unless it's bashing JJP.

    Quoted from JY64:

    With the comments I have heard made about Kannada on Pinside my bet is the contacting employers was done by a Pinsider. Kannada trashed Sterns competition as well as Stern So if you want to look at pin manufacturers JJP needs to be in the conversation

    Oh ok. Carry on then.

    #78 3 years ago
    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    Hey, you're not allowed to post unless it's bashing JJP.

    Oh ok. Carry on then.

    #79 3 years ago

    I haven't been following this closely, but is there any proof that Stern or someone at Stern was involved in any of this? Or is this just pure speculation?

    #80 3 years ago
    Quoted from porkcarrot:

    I haven't been following this closely, but is there any proof that Stern or someone at Stern was involved in any of this? Or is this just pure speculation?

    Who cares its all good conspiracy theory stuff and may even be plausible knowing what happened to Kaneda. You know, shut up the masses, and send in the shills or is that the clowns - Buy, Buy, Buy

    #81 3 years ago

    That blows because Cary seems fairly even handed. He said Stranger Things was boring and articulated why he felt that way, which is a fair criticism all things considered. He has talked up TMNT. He did rake them over the coals for Heavy Metal's price and artwork though. But that can't have possibly set Stern off, could it? He only gets a couple thousand views, mostly pinheads that already know Heavy Metal is a rip off. Plus when he is making his arguments, he is usually very fair to Stern by recognizing them as a business that happens to make pinball machines.

    I just hope that Stern isn't learning the wrong lessons from the modern relationship between the video game industry and video game press. A lot of video game publishers are blacklisting people or only giving early access to people who won't say anything negative about the product.

    It's a pretty bold claim to say Stern would pressure the locations that get the first wave of games to keep someone like Cary from reporting on new games. Surely someone there is familiar with the Streisand effect.

    #82 3 years ago

    That would explain why they haven't made a Dalton Trumbo pin, yet!

    #83 3 years ago

    Very interesting, was just forwarded this leaked board meeting at a major pinball company!

    https://www.captiongenerator.com/1901702/Pinball-Company-Board-Meeting-Video

    #84 3 years ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    Think Ferrari. They sell lots of “cheap” cars, but to get the great cars you’ll need to apply.

    Sorry I don’t see the relationship

    #85 3 years ago

    Well that video should get him right in the door next time!

    #86 3 years ago
    Quoted from zpinman370:

    Who cares its all good conspiracy theory stuff and may even be plausible knowing what happened to Kaneda.

    But we also have no real facts on what went down with Kaneda right? We only have the story he told, and I think it is fair to say he might not be entirely reliable.

    I just don't see how any of this gets tied to Stern seeking vengeance for people talking bad about them. There is talk that they are going after people who are leaking their marketing material (which seems totally justified to me), but do we even have proof of that?

    #87 3 years ago
    Quoted from Krupps4:

    I think the point your missing is that the allegation is that Stern is proactively contacting employers, Facebook and the like. They are interfering with their customers lives and livelihoods. Certainly, Facebook, etc. can determine their own policies, but, in this case, they are allegedly being prodded or provoked by Stern. If Stern doesn’t like leaks, do a better job of preventing them. Make a change internally, but don’t attack members of a very small community.

    So if a blogger gets hold of sensitive information somehow, they are free to do whatever with that information? I don't think so. That's like buying stolen goods knowing they are stolen but justifying it because you were not the one that actually stole it. I see no reason why Stern cannot protect their business from not only leaks but malicious attacks from entitled individuals. Jobs and money are on the line. Facebook and others have the right to ban individuals they feel are not following the rules. Pinside no different. Brick and mortar stores can kick out people causing problems as well. This is nothing new.

    #88 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    So now its "multiple callers" to his employer?

    It always was.
    Two.

    #89 3 years ago
    Quoted from porkcarrot:

    But we also have no real facts on what went down with Kaneda right? We only have the story he told, and I think it is fair to say he might not be entirely reliable.
    I just don't see how any of this gets tied to Stern seeking vengeance for people talking bad about them. There is talk that they are going after people who are leaking their marketing material (which seems totally justified to me), but do we even have proof of that?

    Well you know it's just the cloak and dagger business of pinball Who needs proof when you can have rumor and innuendo

    #90 3 years ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Change from what?
    have u played Maiden and JP2 or Deadpool. All great games and TMNT looks quite amazing. What needs to change?

    The attitude towards customers.

    #91 3 years ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    So if a blogger gets hold of sensitive information somehow, they are free to do whatever with that information? I don't think so. That's like buying stolen goods knowing they are stolen but justifying it because you were not the one that actually stole it. I see no reason why Stern cannot protect their business from not only leaks but malicious attacks from entitled individuals. Jobs and money are on the line. Facebook and others have the right to ban individuals they feel are not following the rules. Pinside no different. Brick and mortar stores can kick out people causing problems as well. This is nothing new.

    This is flawed logic. By your logic, there would be no such thing as investigative journalism.

    They have the moral and legal right to share the information if it is newsworthy. That is assuming they didn't do anything illegal to attain and release it, such as hacking into private emails, buying stolen property, or violate a NDA. Some people might abuse the DMCA if they don't like it (and social media companies quickly cave because it's easier to take stuff down and put it back up then risk their own ass), but things like this have always been considered fair use.

    #92 3 years ago

    So much darkness, black magic and subterfuge coming to light about the pinball industry. I hope it is a sign that my dream theme is around the corner. Elwin’s release #5, after Godzilla and Jaws, oh please.

    11CAD233-34D7-4A67-8AAC-C1BD7607CD02.jpeg11CAD233-34D7-4A67-8AAC-C1BD7607CD02.jpeg525A05EF-5900-4E3C-B6F8-F258E9C5A9B6.jpeg525A05EF-5900-4E3C-B6F8-F258E9C5A9B6.jpeg5B832D9F-09E2-4C16-A80A-0120557C7A93.png5B832D9F-09E2-4C16-A80A-0120557C7A93.pngA655EEBB-DE3C-4C2F-8CA8-DB1D07BEC031.pngA655EEBB-DE3C-4C2F-8CA8-DB1D07BEC031.pngC00EC149-AB99-49DA-9876-731651F8F140.pngC00EC149-AB99-49DA-9876-731651F8F140.png
    #93 3 years ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    This is flawed logic. By your logic, there would be no such thing as investigative journalism.
    They have the moral and legal right to share the information if it is newsworthy. That is assuming they didn't do anything illegal to attain and release it, such as hacking into private emails, buying stolen property, or violate a NDA. Some people might abuse the DMCA if they don't like it, but things like this have always been considered fair use.

    A moral and legal right? We aren't talking about uncovering criminal activities or human rights violations here. We are talking about leaking images of a companies upcoming product a day or two before it is set to be released. This isn't news that the world needs to know, it isn't serving the public good, and it isn't exposing anything. It is literally just spoiling a reveal for clicks and clout.

    14
    #94 3 years ago

    Post wasn't helpful..

    #95 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheCapn:

    I was vague on the video and still have not outted the people involved because as of right now as stated in my video - this is all speculation. If I knew for a fact that said parties were purposefully being biased then I would be more inclined to out them. Even then I still don't wish harm on a small business.
    I'm keeping my Pro order. I honestly want the game. Dear God I can imagine the lash back for cancelling my order from people. "Cary of course cancelled. Just another bullshit reason to not buy a Stern game." Something like that I'm sure of it.
    I think some of you have nailed what I think the issue is too. The business is protecting themselves. They don't want to be held accountable for GIVING me the ability to possibly post a negative video. That was my initial thought too, but then I guess I started to think about it more and it turned into a "wtf is that about?!"
    The website in question can post what they want. I just find it odd that it seems there are updates posted daily and for some reason NONE of the updates over the last month have included me. It could honestly be an oversight and that is why I haven't named it.

    So that stuff happening when you wanted to film is out of the question, that sucks. And I generally like your stuff and don’t get this wrong!

    Turn around the question: What video should have been promoted AND would that be a video you regulary would find there?

    „Unnamed site“ posts no rants and not every update on some hobby project.

    There just was no relevant content in my opinion. (Relevance drops when you do a lot of content.)

    And since you moderated the Twippys at a time when you were allready more vocal to formulate your opinion as others, I‘d see this as a sign of trust and would just ask if everything is fine instead of putting out a video, calling people out (everyone knows who you‘re referring to), putting them in a pinch if they‘re not „in Sterns pocket“!

    Problem Kaneda had was a self fulfilling prophecy mode he aquired. You‘re off in his footsteps.
    Just ask. You‘re not as important that everyone is against you.

    Kaneda was mentioned on unspecified website till the end, WHEN he really had something, so why shouldn‘t you?

    IF you‘re hated (you aren‘t... yet) you just have to be better then the rest. Than they can‘t ignore you.

    #96 3 years ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    So if a blogger gets hold of sensitive information somehow, they are free to do whatever with that information? I don't think so. That's like buying stolen goods knowing they are stolen but justifying it because you were not the one that actually stole it. I see no reason why Stern cannot protect their business from not only leaks but malicious attacks from entitled individuals. Jobs and money are on the line. Facebook and others have the right to ban individuals they feel are not following the rules. Pinside no different. Brick and mortar stores can kick out people causing problems as well. This is nothing new.

    Yes. The blogger can do what they want with it so long as it was not illegally obtained by that person or not disclosed by that person in violation of a confidentiality agreement. If Stern sends pics to distributors and the distributors leak them, then Sterns claim is against the distributor and not the blogger.

    As to your comments about Facebook and stores and Pinside kicking out individuals, they certainly have a right to do so. Totally agree.

    This is such an odd discussion. It’s very rare that people side with the “big” company and not the little guy speaking his or her mind. Is Stern that insecure that they can’t take a little criticism? Are we all so insecure that we can’t listen to someone criticize Stern or whomever?

    #97 3 years ago
    Quoted from porkcarrot:

    A moral and legal right? We aren't talking about uncovering criminal activities or human rights violations here. We are talking about leaking images of a companies upcoming product a day or two before it is set to be released. This isn't news that the world needs to know, it isn't serving the public good, and it isn't exposing anything. It is literally just spoiling a reveal for clicks and clout.

    I didn't say they were deserving of Pulitzer prizes. Just that they do have the right to do it if they want to.

    #98 3 years ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    Remember the Supreme game?

    Never heard of it.

    -2
    #99 3 years ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    I didn't say they were deserving of Pulitzer prizes. Just that they do have the right to do it if they want to.

    Sure, and Stern has the right to try to stop them from doing it.

    My point is that there is no reason for people to leak the images, other than the fact that they are probably assholes.

    #100 3 years ago
    Quoted from RockfordReplay:

    Gary mentioned Cary Hardy in a podcast earlier this year. I recall Gary conveying a weak but favorable opinion of Cary at that time.
    To develop and create a product, then have select Negative-Nancy's jump on it at first daylight; been there. Months of work ripped on by limited individuals we perceive as simply hateful and/or bitter who's only focus is the negative aspects of our product. There's good in our product, why so negative and jeez, we just released it to the public.
    A newer product will release, then another and another. In time, those reviewers will make a name for themselves. Nooo, stop doing this to us!

    Can't say I disagree...I'm not a big fan of Cary Hardy, he shat all over Stranger things, and admitted to never having played it...Kind of hard to take an early review like that seriously.

    There are 632 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 13.

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