Keep it. I don't own one and I have no horse in that race. But there is great potential here. Wait until Master Richie reveals the plans behind the plans... I am convinced this game will become as good as ACDC.

But please, change these pathetic animations...

I think keeper is the wrong word. I am more inclined to use the words 'staying power'. That said; I don't think any newly released game has good staying power. TRON, ACDC, Metallica, woz, to name a few had very little staying power in their early states and STLE is no different. So if you have the patience to go on the code updates roller coaster ride, then yes STLE has staying power. If you have little patience for linear code in a new game and cannot wait out an update or two, then this game has little to no staying power for you.

SKB

I agree! I do believe the animations are from the cartoon, not sure. The animations are cheesy currently, but maybe with new code they will put some better animations on the DMD. I would just hold on to the game, especially if you have an L.E. and wait for code.

Tough to say that IM (regular version, not the costco one) is bare bones from a playfield perspective compared to ST.

As far as things that interact with the ball, ST has a drop target, kicker and a magnet. 3 ramps. And its ship either wobbles, or wobbles and falls down. IM has 2 magnets, a kicker, 2 ramps, and a figure that rises from under the playfield, becomes a bash toy, and falls back down. Seems pretty similar in that respect.

ST has better insert lighting, but it's GI isn't that great when compared to MET, Xmen, ACDC, etc.

IMO, I'd take my IM with its LEDs and few toy mods (e.g. whiplash whips that light up, arc reactors) over ST every day of the week.

The animation is all custom from the game. There's no ST cartoon based on the new movies.

Some animation is good (by DMD standards)...the ones where the characters are bigger and use the display for interesting compositions are preferable to the ones where it looks like two 8-bit figures running on a scrolling background. Definitely looks like different people did different sequences - character design styles differ between them.

Most of it is animation over kill though. When I make a final shot, or an important shot for that matter, I want to see my points for the shot with maybe some added display of how I achieved that shot. I don't want to be spammed with prolonged animations. And when I lose the ball, hit me with my end of ball bonus, don't show me a 5 second animation that I can't cancel out of. Gets irritating and repetitive.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-you-get-for-pre-ordering

I've played EM's and classic Sterns that are more fun then ST. It doesn't matter what's on the playfield it's how it's used that matters.

Sure sure but are they BRIGHTER?!?

Very much agree -- people seem inclined to knock on the dots, but some are pretty decent. There's just a lot of inconsistency among the elements (8-bit videogame style, cartoonish, 3D rendered, flat movie stills). Even in the limited resolution of a DMD, there are a lot of stylistic decisions that can be made.

I'm probably of the minority viewpoint, but I'd actually like to see at least a little bit of movie footage incorporated. SM understandably gets hit for that, but AC/DC has a ton of concert video, and I don't see anybody complaining. I think the key for the latter was clear, sensible art direction -- live action for certain modes/features, and animation centering around the "devil" character for the rest (both of which tied into the cabinet/pf artwork, and forming a complete package together).

Dang, Rommy, this is a pretty poor "argument" on behalf of STLE vs IM. I mean, I can make a better argument in STLE's favor than you did here, and I'm the one who traded my STLE for IM!

You complain of IM's "bare playfield"....as though this is somehow an advantage that ST has over it? Seriously? Please explain to me how ST's playfield is in any way less "bare" than IM's?

The "bare bones nature of it is a total turnoff"? WTH are you talking about? Oh, I see... you are turned on by the light show on STLE. Great. It *is* impressive! And those things do matter. But you don't play the lights, or the other bling. Game play matters a lot more than the pretty lights. At least to some of us.

I think STLE is one of the best looking pins I have ever owned (other than my McCune restored pins). Sorry, but that alone isn't enough to outweigh the importance of gameplay. And that's probably the thing I find most interesting in your post: your entire argument in favor of Star Trek fails to mention gameplay even once.

I am currently deciding between a Met or ST and I gotta tell you the light show is kind of turning me off ST. I love me some LEDs no doubt aboot that but I was playing some other machines the other night and just walking my ST it was blinding. Notice it a lot less when playing because you're focused on it but damn that thing is bright.

In terms of the GI lighting, I actually find MET to be brighter. But....I think it is a matter of perception, because MET has more even illumination than ST does. The spot lights on ST are not used for GI. They are flashers. As a result, ST has more contrast, which can give the impression of it being brighter because it is actually harder on the eyes than a brighter, but more evenly illuminated, pin.

Gotcha; Thanks for the input.

Wow, ST is lacking excitement. Please send me what ever drug it is you are on as I must have some to make STLE seem boring in comparison. I love Ironman and AC/DC too but you're high.

Gotta say I find it funny that you guys are arguing about which of these two highly regarded games are the most bare.

Thanks for the meaningful discussion. Your argument is well reasoned and articulate. The items that you enumerated in what makes STLE exciting cannot be denied.

Exactly! And that's my point. How can he be so critical of IM for having such a "bare bones" layout when ST is the same way?

The only extra thing that ST has on the pf vs IM is the third ramp (warp) and flipper.

That's a very accurate assessment, and repetition is what always makes me sell "long play" games....they always get compared to the high benchmark of LOTR or TSPP...if they feel repetitive, they gotta go. There's a difference between organic depth & 'just a shitload of content'. Star Trek could be seen as suffering from that - but the one thing that keeps it from totally being redundant is the ability to choose level 1/2/3 of a mode instead of doing all level 1s, then all level 2s. Having the choice of narrative does allow you to get that excitement of completing a narrative challenge with different music/dots/shots every time you play the game. So while ST isn't in the LOTR/TSPP zone of depth awesomeness, it's not in the "ugh this is boring and there's so much more shit to slog through" zone like XM & TF. It's somewhere in the middle - solely due to way you can chose your path with so many variations.

Trek shots feel so good, i think the software will catch up in the next update or two.

I'm not a ST hater! I think the pin looks fantastic, the sound effects are excellent, and it shoots great (I've said this many times). Unfortunately the code/ rules to not compliment the positive aspects of the pin, and in fact, take away from it quite a bit in my opinion.

Pretty straightforward opinion, with no "hate" involved. Your accusations of "drugs" and "hate" are ridiculous and makes you lack any credibility on the issue, especially when you can't even articulate the basis for your opinion, other than to engage in name calling.

Take it easy fella, it's a joke. Where is the name calling? The argument that you're making in regards to my lack of articulation is arbitrary my friend, I see you owned an STLE and did not care for it like I did with Tron and that's cool but who cares. Anyway I didn't mean to come across like a dick. PEACE

Fair enough, perhaps I took it more personal than you intended with the drug stuff etc. It's only pinball, it's all good!

Actually ST in its current form is quite boring compared to ACDC & IM. Hell even my recently acquired FT is more exciting then ST. For me anyways.

Are you stretching the truth by any means?

WRONG! I mentioned gameplay ... once

Oh Shit. I hope not. I Just bought one!

Then again FT is a game I have owned the longest, played the most.

Not in the slightest. It someone said pick between the 2 It would take about 1 second for me to decide. It's a shame Steve couldn't have got Lyman on this one. Why Stern would break up such a great team is beyond me.

Saying that FT has more excitement than ST isn't really a huge knock against ST, as FT has a lot going for it. If he said Monopoly had way more excitement than ST, then you should be concerned.

ouch! Monopoly lasted 3 weeks here!

I firmly believe, that the code release will blow everyone away! I dont think Steve will let it slide....

Trek is way more intense than FT, but right now FT has much better buildup to the big shots.. Suuuper Jackpot! that's pinball gold, baby.

The truth is it's the same people here who have been sour on Star Trek for months now. Anyone who reads about the game knows who they are. You can put all the weight you want on their opinions or not as you choose, that's pinball.

It doesn't matter how good or bad the game is you *always* see an increase in the number of for sale ads 6 months after release. It tends to simmer down at 1 year as people start keeping them, and at 2 years demand increases because code is finally complete and production has stopped so finding one means wrenching it out of a collection.

There are as many Metallica LEs for sale now as Star Trek LEs (one seller is trying to move both together IIRC). Does that mean Metallica is collapsing? Of course not, it's an awesome game. Hopefully my next one (not an LE, Premium probably). But people sell games.

There are some people who are tired of the current code and bailing. Their prerogative. I would think it's coming soon, but we don't have a date even in rumors, so it's a waiting game. But I think it's silly to buy a NIB Stern and not know this is how the game is played.

You guys are crazy there is like 3 for sale I think when the code drops it will be killer! Yes I sold mine but it's just a timing thing I didn't bail on it . The game is super fun as it sits .

Ironically I was offered a FT in trade FT is a simple but fun game!

The truth is it's the same people here who have been pro Star Trek for months now. Anyone who reads about the game knows who they are. You can put all the weight you want on their opinions or not as you choose, that's pinball.

You keep saying this, but I think it is completely unfair to say that people who are selling ST now "don't know how the game is played".

Seriously. You don't think we all know that new code is coming? Or that we bought the pin not knowing that code would be updated later, just like all recent Sterns?

You should have left your last sentence out of your post completely, as it applies to virtually nobody on this forum.

Nah, I stand by it. I think it's dumb to buy a NIB Stern if you can't wait for the code. Sorry man, I know that includes you, but that's just my perspective. As I recall you just swore off buying NIB games all together, so I can't help but feel you're on the same page as me.

Note that I don't think you or anyone else is actually dumb, I just think the practice is somewhat ridiculous. We all know how the game works, as you point out, so why do it if you can't stomach the wait?

Anyways, I feel like I'm coming off as a defensive owner, so I'll stop. I'm not trying to make this personal or anything. These threads just feel like the same back and forth now is all.

Who said I can't stomach the wait?

The fact is, I don't think that the code will change enough to make me want to keep the game.

Compare that to MET. Quite the opposite. I already liked that game a lot, even with the original code. So I was *more* than willing to wait for the code update on that one, and I'm sure as hell glad that I did. And that was a *long* wait. I'm guessing the wait for ST code won't be as long.

So it isn't a matter of being able to stomach the wait, as much as it is just not feeling that the improvements will be sufficient to make me love it.

Again, I know "how the game is played". Just because I don't play it the way you want me to doesn't make it "dumb".

Fair enough. Like I said, not trying to make it personal, everyone has their reasons. You know me though, I'm never afraid to put out an opinion.

I just played several games on my ST Prem, had a good time!

The only thing that could save ST IMO is a complete reboot of the current code. 18 missions while it sounds good is too many and really unnecessary. SM has 5 modes, LOTR has what 7? These are 2 of the deeper sterns and ST is asking you to get through 18 in order to get to the 5 year mission wizard mode??? Good luck with that unless they do a major overhaul of the code.

I highly agree with you! But, One of the suggestions to the code team is to make it 6 missions each with 3 tiers. After you complete tier 1, it'll automatically begin tier 2 while also lighting the away team shot to allow the player to swap missions or continue on the current mission. This would be huge IMO as it gets rid of the tedious annoyance of having to shoot the mission start or away team 17 times in between missions. Not only that, it would add strategy of whether a player wants to get deeper into a mission to increase their kobayashi and super mode scores or abort the mission and switch in order to get to 3-in-a-row and kobayashi quicker. Part of this idea was to light enterprise amok after 3 completed missions so there's another avenue for the player to decide how to tackle the missions and game.

Edit: this actually an easy change in the code as all the elements are there. Whether the code team Implements this or something similar is another story.

Sure...I think it will change enough to make you want to get it back!

Seriously. At this stage all modes are somewhat repetitive. This is something that can be addressed. Imagine one during which lock targets do not activate the lock - giving something else interesting in exchange. And so on.

I am convinced this will be done.

Respectfully disagree. I am convince that Master Richie will make the code go in a different direction. As for ACDC. Depth means little for ACDC - it is still a fantastic game.

I agree. Steve Ritchie is aware of the issues with his game and he will not let the game be known As linear or repetitive. I have faith in Steve and his team.

Called IT!!!!!!!!!

People thought this was going be better than STTNG, and boy, it turned out not to be true.

I think some owe me an apology....... (I kid, I kid)

To be fair, STTNG is no 10. *drum roll - splash*

So you are basically agreeing with my statement that the code needs to go in a different direction. lol I'm glad you "respectfully disagree"

Steve is by far my fav. designer. But that being said he doesnt write code for these games & unless Lyman gets onboard I doubt it will ever be back in my collection. Whatever it is they Pay Lyman it should be doubled.

Will ST hold up 20 years from now??? That's the real question.