(Topic ID: 239074)

Is pinside top 100 credible anymore?


By Liakos

7 months ago



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  • 98 posts
  • 64 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by SDTMinSTL
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    There are 98 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 7 months ago
    Quoted from Liakos:

    Cuz if mb was the greatest it would be the best for a 1 pin collection yet everyone advises against that....?

    Herein lies the problem: not everyone agrees on whether their rating reflects a pin that would be best in a 1 pin collection. Some are rating it from the perspective of a great location pin, some as a tournament pin, some as a home pin in a sizable collection, some as a single pin in home.

    Monster Bash for example, is in my opinion a near perfect game and worthy of its top 3 ranking - for an occasional play in an arcade. At the same time, it would be in my bottom 50 for a single pin in a home, because it lacks the depth that doesn’t matter as much in an arcade. It’s also fantastic in a multiple pin home collection. Same for Medieval Madness.

    Perhaps you should ask for a different ranking of everyone’s top pins if they were to have a single pin collection?

    #52 7 months ago

    meh. play a machine for an hour before you decide.

    what you like, others will hate. the top 10 on this site....i've got 3 of them top 25, all time...all time is a huge list.

    to be fair, i've owned every one in pinside's "top 10" currently, except JJP carribean.

    but agree with the rest...ratings biased due to a "wow, i need to sell this quick and not take a hit..." mentality.

    f@%^ what others recommend. be your own man/woman.

    #53 7 months ago

    I'm trying to make my ratings based on after sale feelings. If I no longer have a vested interest to "pump" I feel I can be more clear headed.

    That said, any game I'm thinking of purchasing I immediately check the list for comments and current ownership status, including new purchase, a few months, a few years, or previously owned.

    I've also found pm'ing previous owners a tremendous help. Straight review without worrying about ruffling any feathers.

    The number means little to me except possibly for resale.

    #54 7 months ago
    Quoted from joegeno:

    Absolutely not

    Yup. It's not MY top 100 list.

    #55 7 months ago
    Quoted from phoenixpin:

    Monster Bash for example, is in my opinion a near perfect game and worthy of its top 3 ranking - for an occasional play in an arcade.

    I only play it in an arcade, it's a split between boring and drain city. Not worthy of a top 100 game at all.

    #56 7 months ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    No. Top 5 in particular is a skid mark on this Forum. A literal parade of dishonest new owners pumping their $8k+ purchase as the "best pin ever". The pumping and shilling around here has gotten way out of control.

    Munsters #3 on list illustrates the questionable value of the Top 100. Curious to see where it’s at in 6-12 months.

    #57 7 months ago

    I feel for the Ops situation that he doesn't have many pins to play so he's trying to get a reference without playing. For some like me that don't have many pins to play on location I really try to watch as many videos of game play as I can. My kids laugh at me watching Twitch but what else you going to do if you don't want to drive several hours to play a pin. Also I'm not a fan of going to arcades or bars that you can't experience the pin fully because of the noise. TNA is a game that I traveled to play and was turned off not because of the game play but it sucked up 20 bucks faster than I'd like to admit (at a buck a play).

    #58 7 months ago
    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    That would be cool, maybe have filters to select games by year, then filter those in order of ranking -
    Hi there Panzer, hope you're doing well!

    Hey! Looks like there is a filter and I just never noticed it lol. When you go to the top 100 page select the "Custom" tab. Taking a look at the top games for the past 10 years is very interesting, so many awesome games have been released in the past 10 years. Interesting to see how rankings have shifted around a bit in this few.

    last 10 years (resized).JPG

    #59 7 months ago

    It's ironic u said tna... this is the pin I'm currently in the works to buy.
    No one has it here... cant find it to play..
    I go on peoples reviews.. they give it a 9+ and its sold faster than u can say munsters...
    I dont get it..lol

    I watch videos etc but it's not the same..

    In the end u gotta gamble and it's not like u are dishing out a couple Bills...

    If u dont like it u basically eat a dick, take a loss and move on with the next one...

    It's just this is becoming more of a job to me now lugging these beasts in and out of my basement ..at least if I was making some money on them but I always take a loss...lol

    It is what it is I guess

    #60 7 months ago

    If I can ask with all the courage ( off topic) if anyone here has a tna and can kinda give me their honest thoughts...

    I own 13 pins and I have and love the style like Twd, ironman etc... twd being my favourite game...

    I will be overpaying for the tna ( knowinlgy) and dont want to put it up for sale in couple weeks taking a huge loss....

    People say it gets boring fast as it's very basic and limited shots... but I like fast challenging games... dont know what to do..lol

    #61 7 months ago
    Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

    I don't think the list is very accurate anymore.

    How would you go about improving

    Maybe only machines with at least 500 ratings make the list. This could be the all time best list.

    You could also have a list (give it a name) for those with less than 500.

    Just a thought.

    #62 7 months ago
    Quoted from Liakos:

    If I can ask with all the courage ( off topic) if anyone here has a tna and can kinda give me their honest thoughts...
    I own 13 pins and I have and love the style like Twd, ironman etc... twd being my favourite game...
    I will be overpaying for the tna ( knowinlgy) and dont want to put it up for sale in couple weeks taking a huge loss....
    People say it gets boring fast as it's very basic and limited shots... but I like fast challenging games... dont know what to do..lol

    If you played TNA and like it I would get it. Some people will tell you what games they think you should get based off what they like. TNA is a points focused game with a slightly simpler ruleset (that does get progressively harder as reactors are destroyed) but it's also in your face with a lot of speed and some of the best custom music in pinball. If that sounds like fun to you go for it. Personally I think Iron Man has more depth, more shots, and more features then TNA.

    #63 7 months ago

    Get it. It's unique. Killer soundtrack. Challenging. Awesome multiplayer co open and vs mode.

    #64 7 months ago
    Quoted from Liakos:

    If I can ask with all the courage ( off topic) if anyone here has a tna and can kinda give me their honest thoughts...
    I own 13 pins and I have and love the style like Twd, ironman etc... twd being my favourite game...
    I will be overpaying for the tna ( knowinlgy) and dont want to put it up for sale in couple weeks taking a huge loss....
    People say it gets boring fast as it's very basic and limited shots... but I like fast challenging games... dont know what to do..lol

    I love it and never see myself parting with it. I like fast games too and TNA sure is that and would never call it boring unless you need a deep mode based game.

    #65 7 months ago

    I would recommend TNA and my review was on there before I bought and I ended up selling it shortly after. So maybe mine is one of those reviews you are referring too. Why? MBrLE. I really enjoyed TNA but I wanted my grail instead.

    #66 7 months ago

    No it is not credible.

    #68 7 months ago

    It's based on user reviews and different opinions. What do you expect? If you are basing all your buying decisions on other people's opinion then I would say that is flawed, not the list.

    #69 7 months ago

    Top 100 by it self is only directional, I would not buy a pin based only on that.
    But, if you look at the reviews and trend on the ratings that becomes a valuable source of info to buy a pin.

    E.g. Guardian of the galaxy is low on the ranking but the reviews have changed since the new code was released. I would buy cause I understand why the low ranking, how it changed and also its pros and cons.

    Starwars premium, reading the review you will find out that is brutal, fast and when I played ... well it is brutal, left drain is painfull and very common. So I understand why it is on 33 on the ranking and why some love and some rate it. I just bought one

    Woz, a great pin with a lot of issues described. I used it to check if those issues where already solved on mine and bought a great reliable pin. Rules are complex as they described etc.

    #70 7 months ago

    When my games are in the top 20, it is an incredibly accurate measure of the worth of a pinball machine. When not, it is bogus. Like Batman 66, for instance. Clearly the top 100 is wrong!

    There are too many variables. The old favorites have the most reviews and are loved for good reason. The newer ones don't always get the love or exposure they deserve. Different trim levels make it even more confusing.

    #71 7 months ago

    Never has been, never will be.

    It’s sole purpose is to drive traffic to this site and it’s incredibly successful in doing so. If you actually buy or sell games based upon that list get your head examined.

    #72 7 months ago

    Like I said crazy Levi's guy....
    There is no where for me to play games to try them before I buy them...

    U would think the biggest network place in the world associated with the item you want to buy would give u some guidance....

    I need to get my head examined , yes cuz I'm asking for your advice...

    Never coming on this site again.. dont worry crazy Levi's man

    #73 7 months ago
    Quoted from Liakos:

    Never coming on this site again.. dont worry crazy Levi's man

    It's okay mate, that's his thing. Don't take it personally.

    As far as the Pinside Top 100 is concerned - it's the only game in town, pretty much. The top games of the IPDB don't ever seem to budge.

    #74 7 months ago

    Also, it's safe to say that you can feel good about buying a TNA without ever having played it. It's REALLY awesome, and it gets better with friends.

    #75 7 months ago
    Quoted from Liakos:

    If I can ask with all the courage ( off topic) if anyone here has a tna and can kinda give me their honest thoughts...
    I own 13 pins and I have and love the style like Twd, ironman etc... twd being my favourite game...
    I will be overpaying for the tna ( knowinlgy) and dont want to put it up for sale in couple weeks taking a huge loss....
    People say it gets boring fast as it's very basic and limited shots... but I like fast challenging games... dont know what to do..lol

    Have you tried looking at the Pinball Map on Pinside for one close to you?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/map

    You are wondering about TNA but you post about the top 100 in relation to how credible it is regarding a specific game...

    Well, it does not matter what the top 100 list says. Nor does it matter what any specific user says regarding their opinion of a specific game, (yes--especially mine). The only person's opinion that matters is the one paying the $.

    TNA is an ok game. There's nothing really awesome about it though unless you can co-op quite often... Coming to this site is not going to give you the information you need rather than just going to play one 30+ times. I would play one, then wait a week and play one some more. When you start using words like overpay and pinball in the same sentence, it does not make any sense unless you don't care about money.

    And if you don't care about overpaying than what is the risk in buying one and selling it for a few hundred $ loss in a couple months?

    #76 7 months ago
    Quoted from Liakos:

    U would think the biggest network place in the world associated with the item you want to buy would give u some guidance....

    When you ask a general question, you will get general answers.

    If you ask about feedback/opinions on a specific game or games, you'll get a mountain of info.

    Quoted from Liakos:

    There is no where for me to play games to try them before I buy them...

    Where are you located? There might be a distributor or yearly pinball/arcade show that is in your region. Some distributors have a few games available to play, and at a show, you could potentially have dozens or hundreds of games available to play.

    Also, as snyper mentioned, the pinball map shows games on locations, as well as Pinsiders who share there location & collection. I've heard that some people sometimes try messaging others Pinsider in their area and ask them about games they're thinking about buying. They might even be willing to invite you over to give the game a try. So, not only could you possibly play the game, but also possibly meet someone who is into the hobby in your area. They might also be able to help guide you to a purchase that you would be happy with.

    Quoted from TRC73:

    Also, it's safe to say that you can feel good about buying a TNA without ever having played it. It's REALLY awesome, and it gets better with friends.

    Well, like I said above, it really depends on the type of player you are and what games you like. Some people really like it, some people don't.

    #77 7 months ago

    In my experience, I've had more people love TNA than those that have hated it.

    Anecdotal evidence for the win!

    #78 7 months ago
    Quoted from TRC73:

    In my experience, I've had more people love TNA than those that have hated it.

    How many of those people besides yourself paid $6K for one? Exactly zero? Everyone loves pinball if it's free.

    I actually don't know anyone around me that has kept the NIB one that they bought at this point. Kind of sad actually.

    #79 7 months ago

    I'm in Canada and only couple barcades here to play....

    Guys I sincerely appreciate the input...

    I'm trying to minimize my losses...

    It's harder to get pins here especially spooky games.. I have had a bad experience with shipping also from the states...

    You guys are hardcore for taking time to give me tips and advice..
    I appreciate that...

    #80 7 months ago

    Well, depending on where you are in Canada, there are clusters of collectors around some of the major cities, as well as just over the US border.

    I'm in the northeast US, and I know that quite a few Canadians drive down to a number of the US shows here.

    This is probably the largest show schedule: https://www.pinballnews.com/site/diary/

    And a quick google search pulls up a few shows in Canada: https://www.google.com/search?q=pinball+show+canada

    One in Sherwood Park, Alberta in April: https://yegpin.com/

    There's one in Ottawa which happens in september, but they had issues with weather/power last year, so it's unclear what the 2019 show plans are: http://www.ottawapinball.com/opgs

    Looks like there's a big one in Vancouver in October: https://www.vancouverflipout.com/

    Looks like there may be a few others too, but I didn't dig around too much.

    #81 7 months ago

    I agree that a destination trip is a really good idea to play a lot of games and figure out what is most fun for you.

    #82 7 months ago

    Would you spend 10k on a pinball then rate it a piece of junk? Even if you didn't like it?

    Most of the new ratings are just that...a bunch of NIB owners trying to make sure their pin holds value. Nothing more.

    No one can tell you you're ever going to like something unless you try it for yourself.

    It might sound good or bad but you'll never know until you play it.

    #83 7 months ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    How many of those people besides yourself paid $6K for one? Exactly zero? Everyone loves pinball if it's free.
    I actually don't know anyone around me that has kept the NIB one that they bought at this point. Kind of sad actually.

    I actually know a good... handful of people that bought one and love it. I'm one of those poor sap pinball players who can't afford anything less than the most bottom basement prices, so even $6k is waaaay too much for me. But, hey, there hasn't been a Powerball winner in a while...

    #84 7 months ago
    Quoted from Liakos:

    I'm in Canada and only couple barcades here to play....
    Guys I sincerely appreciate the input...
    I'm trying to minimize my losses...
    It's harder to get pins here especially spooky games.. I have had a bad experience with shipping also from the states...
    You guys are hardcore for taking time to give me tips and advice..
    I appreciate that...

    For what it's worth, I love my Canadian neighbors and Strange Brew is one of my favorite movies. Now THAT needs a pin.

    -2
    #85 7 months ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    I actually don't know anyone around me that has kept the NIB one that they bought at this point. Kind of sad actually.

    That IS sad! I find it to be just pure, distilled, pinball fun. And like I said, I'm lucky enough to know a few people / operators that have it in their collections / routes.

    But opinions are like, oh you know. Some are stinkers. Mine might be.

    #86 7 months ago

    It has JJ POTC, LOTR, and IJ in the top 10. No, it is not credible.

    #87 7 months ago
    Quoted from stumptown:

    It has JJ POTC, LOTR, and IJ in the top 10. No, it is not credible.

    I think LOTR and IJ are great games. Both are still fairly popular.

    Whenever an IJ appears at a show around here, there is always a line to play it. There's not too many games that actually have a line form for them, other than the newest releases.

    I haven't really had much game time on POTC, so I can't speak for that one yet. I'm hoping to be able to put a few games on one at the shows coming up this year.

    #88 7 months ago
    Quoted from iloveplywood:

    I admit I still look at how people rate games and I'll often check to see if people still own their "bolted to the floor" game a year later (not usually)

    "This game will never leave my collection" in a review in which "PinsiderX has owned this game in the past" is peak Pinside.

    #89 7 months ago

    It is what it is, isn’t it? A thingy on the inter webs on a pinball site where people rate games. If that means something to you, then it does. If it doesn’t, then it doesn’t.

    #90 7 months ago

    Example
    Munsters as mentioned earlier was in the top 5 (undeservedly). It dropped to 50th this week.

    #91 7 months ago

    The ranking of games is subjective, same with cars, movies, etc. What I found odd entering the hobby a little over 10 years ago, having missed the great Williams/Bally game days of the late 90s, was the consistently high rankings of MM, AFM, MB, ToTAN, ToM, TZ, TAF, and STTNG. A the time, I strongly thought that they were gamed a little bit by the old timers. Since they were expensive at the time and I could never find one to play except a beat up route version, I couldn't get into them. I loved the newer Stern games, eventually owning Sopranos, Tron, IM, TWD, etc. I still love Stern and others, but today, my most played games at home are the MM, AFM, and MB remakes. There's a reason they're ranked high and have been for years. They're not deep in rules, but they're fun.

    I disagree a lot with the top 100 and have owned games ranked over 100 on that list. At a glance today, Deadpool and WoZ at 18 & 19 seem high to me, but overall the rankings stratified by 25% groupings aren't terrible, IMHO, minus a few outliers.

    2 weeks later
    #92 7 months ago

    Top-100 lost a few points of credibility when LE got lumped in with Pro/Standard and other models when you do your "default" top-100 search.
    robin I would appreciate seeing a 1-button option to "show standard scores ONLY" -- as I think it may be a truer indicator of the success of a machine.
    =)
    -mof

    #93 7 months ago

    While I do look at the top100 I have never bought a game before actually playing it. I've been eager to play many high rated games and finally when playing them for the first time I get utterly dissapointed (opposite does happen also ofc). One example of this is STTNG which have a great rating but I can't enjoy at all, even when I am trying to like it I just can't and quickly move on to another pin.

    Another example is AFM, I was so eager to play it due to its high ratings (and I like the "Marsians" theme) but boy, when playing it for the first time i was like "what? that's it? Where's the wooow?" The game didn't feel any more fun for me than the other SS games between top40-80 for me. I would much rather play Junk Yard than AFM.

    Regarding the old vs new games; I've played most of the 2005 > games and I have to say that while they often look nice visually their "fun factor" decreases really fast for me while the old Bally/Williams games keep me playing over and over. For me the old games have more feeling/soul/fun/staying power in them.

    #94 7 months ago

    No chance I would buy TNA or any other pin without putting some time in on it. Prices are too high and you risk a decent loss if you don’t like the game. TNA in particular is a different beast. You won’t know until you flip it.

    #95 7 months ago

    Btw, maybe I'm immature and all that, but every time I see TNA mentioned I can't stop thinking it means something completely different

    #96 7 months ago
    Quoted from mof:

    Top-100 lost a few points of credibility when LE got lumped in with Pro/Standard and other models when you do your "default" top-100 search.
    robin I would appreciate seeing a 1-button option to "show standard scores ONLY" -- as I think it may be a truer indicator of the success of a machine.
    =)
    -mof

    Totally agree, but I'd argue that the scores of LE/Prem and Pro need to be averaged. Just basing a score on the LE score is so off base it's rediculous. We all know that owners usually do not rate honestly or rate too early.

    From what I remember, the philosophy is that the LE represents the best version of the game, but this is a fallacy. The pro is what most people see and play. The LE should be able to pull up the score, but not decide it.

    The entire list is rather arbritrary, but to say that it doesn't mean anything is not true. Many advertise sales using the list, and newbs definitely consider it when purchasing games. Therefore, it should reflect at least a semblance of accuracy. I find it's pretty decent with the exception of the LE fallacy.

    #97 7 months ago

    No.

    I realized the Top 100 was being actively gamed a few years ago, after I had the good fortune (?) to give a lesser-known and rare game its 15th review. I rated it fairly under my own personal standards. It was a game I have zero chance of owning in the future. To my surprise and (admitted, since I liked the game) delight, once my review was tallied that game cracked the top 100!

    Now consider that it took YEARS for that game to get 15 reviews. And dang... with only 15 to draw from, becoming a top 100 game (it was like 98 or 99 if I recall) must have meant something right? And that said, it was game displayed publicly several times at shows, so plenty of people had an opportunity to play and review LONG before I ever even heard of it.

    Well, within two weeks a flood of ratings/reviews were added, dropping it down. Hmmm. I found that highly suspicious and wrote off the T100 at that point. I don't understand people's obsession with rank. Fun is fun, and different things to different people.

    I find rating comments to be far more valuable than mere numeric rankings. A rating shouldn't count without a minimal effort for an explanatory verbal (written) review.

    #98 7 months ago

    It is a mob mentality of ratings. It is not subjective, it is biased and it is sometimes overly punitive towards the whim or trends that are currently in the forums, and pinball in general. I certainly wouldn't line up the results against my feelings, because it would be depressing.

    That being said, I find it useful. I like reading peoples thoughts on games in the narrative section.

    I have bought and sold a lot of machines and I find that, despite what everyone tells me I am SUPPOSED to like, or I SHOULD like, I try to go my own way. The hobby is not only more enjoyable that way, but usually cheaper (at least on those machines that are off the beat path some).

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