(Topic ID: 239074)

Is pinside top 100 credible anymore?


By Liakos

7 months ago



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  • 98 posts
  • 64 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by SDTMinSTL
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    There are 98 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 7 months ago

    In the beginning I would use top 100 list as a guide to steer me right, towards buying a pin, as its harder in Canada to find barcades to play them in order to form an opinion....

    Are the top 10 games currently worthy to be in that spot ? ... or is it because with over 1000 ratings over a 20 yr timespan they hold up to that position?

    For example I want to buy a tna and cant find one locally to play... I look at pinside reviews and people who own it obviously rate it a 9+ and ironically I see that they have it for sale... it's almost as soon as we get the game we rate it high to help contribute keeping it high so we can resell at some point with a minimal hit...?

    I mean do u guys thinks a William's top title or even little lower like a Tom, totan rate higher and are better games than the newer games being pumped out currently?
    Is an afm or mb really the number 1 game?
    Cuz if mb was the greatest it would be the best for a 1 pin collection yet everyone advises against that....?

    Should I just stop looking at the 100 list.?
    Is it credible source? I have not seen anyone give a bad review to a game they own..
    Coincidence? ....

    Thoughts?

    #2 7 months ago

    Absolutely not

    #3 7 months ago

    The more owners who submit reviews the higher the score, where obscure pins will be pushed down. I have watched pins like Deadpool, for instance enjoy glowing reviews soon after launch, then become a stinker, then climb back up after a code release.

    Munsters was the best thing since sliced bread until weaknesses were revealed and complaints rolled in.

    Unless you are loaded and money is no object you simply have to play a pin to know if it is for you. That is unless you get a killer deal on one you can easily resell.

    #4 7 months ago

    This thread comes up every month or two.

    #5 7 months ago

    Not gospel by any means. But having a ranking of anything is good for website traffic.

    The best part about it is reading reviews on a game you’re looking at.

    13
    #6 7 months ago

    No and it never was.

    #7 7 months ago

    its like a hit parade. see the three new releases from cgc . they now occupy the 3 top spots.

    #8 7 months ago
    Quoted from Liakos:

    In the beginning I would use top 100 list as a guide to steer me right, towards buying a pin, as its harder in Canada to find barcades to play them in order to form an opinion....
    Are the top 10 games currently worthy to be in that spot ? ... or is it because with over 1000 ratings over a 20 yr timespan they hold up to that position?
    For example I want to buy a tna and cant find one locally to play... I look at pinside reviews and people who own it obviously rate it a 9+ and ironically I see that they have it for sale... it's almost as soon as we get the game we rate it high to help contribute keeping it high so we can resell at some point with a minimal hit...?
    I mean do u guys thinks a William's top title or even little lower like a Tom, totan rate higher and are better games than the newer games being pumped out currently?
    Is an afm or mb really the number 1 game?
    Cuz if mb was the greatest it would be the best for a 1 pin collection yet everyone advises against that....?
    Should I just stop looking at the 100 list.?
    Is it credible source? I have not seen anyone give a bad review to a game they own..
    Coincidence? ....
    Thoughts?

    Most people that buy a pinball machine like it so owners are heavily biased in favor of the game -- I really don't think there's a lot of nefarious review pumping to keep the value of their game up. I have a TNA and my family loves it. I'm still hesitant to rate it because I have little idea how it stacks up to any other machine I haven't owned, maybe I'd like Fish Tales even more -- I don't know. Combine this with the fact that pinball is super subjective and the ratings become fairly useless outside of entertainment value. I admit I still look at how people rate games and I'll often check to see if people still own their "bolted to the floor" game a year later (not usually), but in the end I doubt it helps me at all. Now sometimes the written reviews can be mildly helpful as you might find that their reasons for liking or disliking a game match your own taste. It's better than nothing at least . . . maybe.

    Honestly, if you're not a picky person the odds are you'll like most pinball machines in the top 100 whose theme doesn't offend you. Best thing to do is decide what style of game (short vs long ball time, flow versus stop and go,modern, solid state, EM) you want next and then narrow down the list accordingly. Then if you can't play them pick one from that list that has the most compelling theme.

    #9 7 months ago

    Spot on plywood... thanks for your input..

    #10 7 months ago

    The top 100 is like a popularity contest among girls in high school.

    Some are there because they are pretty. Some are there because they are smart. some of them are because they are easy and fun.

    The reviews are a wealth of information. Use those as it gives you a better understanding of the strengths and weaknesses.

    I love ID4, it is a fun game with a great theme (albeit shallow), and Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith are in it... FUN. It ranks like 200 something... not realistic in my eyes. But that doesn't mean I don't like it.

    Many times, it is not the pretty girls that give the most pleasure

    #11 7 months ago

    Lists... We don't need no stinkin lists

    #12 7 months ago

    You’re the one! I always knew one day I’d find someone who likes ID4!
    But seriously, pinball is very subjective and you make some good points.

    #13 7 months ago

    To me, the point rating is less important than the reviews within. If you can find games that match your style, then the point ratings don't matter as much.

    Certain games that I don't like because they don't match the style of game that I do like - LOTR comes to mind - I can get that out of the people who leave detailed reviews. I really enjoy short, fast games. LOTR is a great game, maybe one of the best of all time... but it just doesn't mesh with my own personal playstyle.

    #15 7 months ago

    It does have its place but.... don’t read to much into it. I use it for general info like depth of code. Or ongoing issues. But not much more.

    #16 7 months ago
    Quoted from Liakos:

    Are the top 10 games currently worthy to be in that spot ?

    For the most part. However, when there is a recent new game release, that new game tends to shoot up on the list for a short time as fans of the game rate it high, then it settles back down to a spot where it usually stays as it gets some more realistic/balanced reviews.

    Quoted from Liakos:

    For example I want to buy a tna and cant find one locally to play... I look at pinside reviews and people who own it obviously rate it a 9+

    Personally, I rated it a bit on the low side. While I applaud the journey that game took in order for it to become a production game and think it is an amazing feat, I don't like playing the game itself very much. Tournament players seem to go wild over it, but since I'm more of a casual player, I don't really enjoy it.

    Quoted from Liakos:

    I see that they have it for sale... it's almost as soon as we get the game we rate it high to help contribute keeping it high so we can resell at some point with a minimal hit...?

    There are a lot of different reasons why game owners seem to churn through games. Some don't have much space, so they sometimes cycle through games quickly. Sometimes they just want the latest & greatest, sometimes they sell to fund new purchases...any number of reasons. But yes, some people do try to pump up a game before they sell it in order to try to prevent the resale price from sinking too much. How successful that really is, I have no idea. It really depends on the game, how quickly the games are being produced, and how much demand there is for it.

    Quoted from Liakos:

    mean do u guys thinks a William's top title or even little lower like a Tom, totan rate higher and are better games than the newer games being pumped out currently?

    Yes. Some of the classic games are still pretty fun. While a few tend to stay at the top of the list, keep in mind that not *all* classic games are high up on the list. Some are great, some are just good, some are simply ok. Some of the new games can be good too, but some can also just be mediocre.

    Personally, I don't limit myself to a particular era or manufacturer. I'll play anything. If I like it, I'll play it again. And if I still like it, I'll continue to play it. It's really just about having fun. So, the games that are fun and have more replay value that make you want to come back for more, are usually ranked higher on the list.

    Quoted from Liakos:

    Cuz if mb was the greatest it would be the best for a 1 pin collection yet everyone advises against that....?

    It's a fun game, but not a very deep game, so it may get old after a while. Plus, it's one of the more expensive games available.

    Quoted from Liakos:

    Should I just stop looking at the 100 list.?

    It's up to you. It's usually good for getting a general idea about what games might be fun to play or own. But I wouldn't put much stock in a particular game owning a specific position on the list. They sometimes shift around for various reasons, so game position is not an absolute, nor set in stone.

    You really don't need to limit yourself to playing just the top 10 games on the list. Most of the games in the top 100 or so are fun to play. There are also some hidden gems below that too.

    If you're interested in a particular game, but don't have access to it, you can always look at gameplay videos to get an idea about it.

    #17 7 months ago

    If you don't know what a game abbreviation is, hover your mouse over the underlined word (or if on a mobile device, tap it).

    In this case, ID4 is Independence Day. The ID4 came from the movie abbreviation.

    #18 7 months ago

    It used to be better before they allowed LE ratings to pull up overall ratings. If each game just had one rating for all versions, it would be a little better. That said, I’d say it’s like movie rankings: the newest blockbuster will provide untrustworthy rankings, but time will settle things down to a list that will give you the gist of quality and popularity. The top 50 is a decent list. Top 10, iffy at best.

    #19 7 months ago

    Has it ever been? Its to easy to manipulate and people rating pins from 0-3 is just crazy imo. Also some people make up bogus accounts just to rate things. Just buy and play what you like and stop worrying about pinside ratings.

    #20 7 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    If you don't know what a game abbreviation is, hover your mouse over the underlined word (or if on a mobile device, tap it).
    In this case, ID4 is Independence Day. The ID4 came from the movie abbreviation.

    That’s a nice trick. Thanks.

    #21 7 months ago

    Was it ever....?

    #22 7 months ago

    They need to introduce one of two possibilities.
    One, a minimum number of votes before it is accepted on the chart. (Maybe 100)
    Two, an better algorithm that takes into account the amount of votes.
    New games that stink get pushed up to the top 5 sometimes by the two dozen owners claiming it's an almost perfect 10. (Looking at you Munsters)
    Jjp pirates for example is a fun game but top 10? With all the constant fixes needed and unclear rule set to the average person?

    #23 7 months ago

    I agree with u graysondad....not just pinside but other areas too...

    You look at the podcast sdtm where the 2 guys give indiana jones William's a perfect 10 score... ( the only pin ftom them that has recieved the highest score of all time) yet it doesnt make it in there top 10 pinball machines on another episode they did after that...

    How does that make sense?

    And I have noticed this on other video stream reputable guys that do reviews... I used to find these entertaining and being kinda new to hobby eould fall back on the " credible guys " for input only to discover everyone just talks shit at the end of the day....lol

    #24 7 months ago

    I don't think the list is very accurate anymore.

    How would you go about improving it.

    #25 7 months ago

    Don't use Pinside ratings for your purchase.... Don't get me wrong love Pinside.... the ratings are worthless for a purchase. You have to play them, all of them
    Then make your own decision. Then rate them....

    #26 7 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    For the most part. However, when there is a recent new game release, that new game tends to shoot up on the list for a short time as fans of the game rate it high, then it settles back down to a spot where it usually stays as it gets some more realistic/balanced reviews.

    Personally, I rated it a bit on the low side. While I applaud the journey that game took in order for it to become a production game and think it is an amazing feat, I don't like playing the game itself very much. Tournament players seem to go wild over it, but since I'm more of a casual player, I don't really enjoy it.

    There are a lot of different reasons why game owners seem to churn through games. Some don't have much space, so they sometimes cycle through games quickly. Sometimes they just want the latest & greatest, sometimes they sell to fund new purchases...any number of reasons. But yes, some people do try to pump up a game before they sell it in order to try to prevent the resale price from sinking too much. How successful that really is, I have no idea. It really depends on the game, how quickly the games are being produced, and how much demand there is for it.

    Yes. Some of the classic games are still pretty fun. While a few tend to stay at the top of the list, keep in mind that not *all* classic games are high up on the list. Some are great, some are just good, some are simply ok. Some of the new games can be good too, but some can also just be mediocre.
    Personally, I don't limit myself to a particular era or manufacturer. I'll play anything. If I like it, I'll play it again. And if I still like it, I'll continue to play it. It's really just about having fun. So, the games that are fun and have more replay value that make you want to come back for more, are usually ranked higher on the list.

    It's a fun game, but not a very deep game, so it may get old after a while. Plus, it's one of the more expensive games available.

    It's up to you. It's usually good for getting a general idea about what games might be fun to play or own. But I wouldn't put much stock in a particular game owning a specific position on the list. They sometimes shift around for various reasons, so game position is not an absolute, nor set in stone.
    You really don't need to limit yourself to playing just the top 10 games on the list. Most of the games in the top 100 or so are fun to play. There are also some hidden gems below that too.
    If you're interested in a particular game, but don't have access to it, you can always look at gameplay videos to get an idea about it.

    pretty much sums it up......

    #27 7 months ago

    Like graysondad said....

    They need to change algorithms taking into account ratio of date listed with amount of reviews , and other factors like that etc...

    Because at the end of the day whether we like it or not value of pin does take a certain amount of influence from the top 100 list..

    For new people entering the hobby , they fall to this for guidance...
    You fork out 9 to 10 dimes on an afm cuz its #1 pin of all time plus u need to an extra Gino to bring it up to 2019 standards ( color dmd etc) when u can get a stern pro that's just as good if not better for cheaper....

    I respect all pins and all have their charisma.... not criticizing or downgrading here. It's all subjective... but simultaneously this shit is misleading is what I'm shoutin here...

    #28 7 months ago

    The top 100 is merely a subjective guide for a noobie. Once you develop your own tastes, your opinion will vary. I think a lot of my favorite pins are nowhere close to being top rated. The list is also skewed in favor of new releases and the "legendary" B/W DMD era pins. Look at the list as friendly "suggestions" and nothing to be taken too seriously. Any list that doesn't have Eight Ball Deluxe in the top 20 is flat out wrong! That's another thing, I grew up with 80's games and they are my personal favorite but they don't get a lot of love on the top game lists even though a large number of us pinheads prefer the pre dmd games. We get overruled with the NIB hype train and the late model B/W fanatics. Oh well, there is room here for everyone and there are so many different ways to enjoy the hobby. Take it all with a grain of salt and remember to have fun.

    #29 7 months ago

    Hello, I tend to rely at the ipdb.org list as a more reliable / stable list. It has its own bias toward Williams 92-96 games but still I is fire proof against quick manipulation that you rightly described here. My modest purchase approach is as follows: do I like the pinball? ( I try it on pinball arcade and virtual support to make my mind ), is it different enough to something I already own? ( I wouldn’t buy a #TOTAN as I already own a #TOM, or a #TAF as I already own a #TZ and so on ), is it in the top 10 of the ipdb.org list? How do it fares in the pinside list? ( like top 30? ). This has push me to buy a #WH2O even though it wasn’t for me an obvious choice and may do the same for a #SS man cave s place permitting. It only exception I allowed myself to this approach is a baby Pacman which is love but I understand it is a teen acquired taste. This approach follows a couple of tries that were more based on maximizing the fun per $. Does it has multiball ? Does it has drop target ? Is it below 1000 $ ? This has been hit and miss with class of 1812 who was great and gladiators who was beuh.

    #30 7 months ago

    Also the list has been off quite a bit since there are a large number of people who havent played the actual games and rate them based on zen pinball or pinball arcade. The two main problems with that are that it means games on the collections get more attention and that the video games are not good representations of actual gameplay. (Great for learning the rules though) I like Totan buti firmly believe that if it hadn't been free with pinball arcade that it would be MUCH lower down the list.

    #31 7 months ago

    Go to a couple shows if u want exposure to a lot of games to help u decide. I've never even looked at a pinside list.

    #32 7 months ago

    I find written review from a few trusted Pinsiders to be more valuable than a position on the list (Caucasian2step's review come to mind.) I value complex, balanced rules more than most other factors. By contrast, many others go for what has curb appeal.

    The top 100 is an OK rough guide, but I could like a game at #35 more than the game at #1 (and in fact, have at points.) Often the games below 150 are going to be flawed, but are mostly still pretty fun.

    #33 7 months ago

    No. Top 5 in particular is a skid mark on this Forum. A literal parade of dishonest new owners pumping their $8k+ purchase as the "best pin ever". The pumping and shilling around here has gotten way out of control.

    #34 7 months ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    No. Top 5 in particular is a skid mark on this Forum. A literal parade of dishonest new owners pumping their $8k+ purchase as the "best pin ever". The pumping and shilling around here has gotten way out of control.

    A great in the moment example of this is JJP POTC
    If you bought it, it’s greatest thing on earth. If you just play it, its the ok-est machine.

    #35 7 months ago

    I enjoy the ranking list and look at it every Monday after the update. My impression is the list gives a reasonable representation of the thoughts people express in the various threads.

    My only wish is that I would have a few more possibilities to create my own list, in particular filtering out ratings above and below certain values.

    #36 7 months ago

    Sometimes I’ll read a rating or the comments and want to comment on these. It would be fun to be able to rate the ratings and somehow have these ratings affect the weighting of the game rating in the score. Might, however, make things pretty complex though. If I understand correctly, the star or bogus ratings don’t have any effect.

    #37 7 months ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    A great in the moment example of this is JJP POTC
    If you bought it, it’s greatest thing on earth. If you just play it, its the ok-est machine.

    Same thing goes for Munsters, Deadpool and any other new pin when its first released.

    #38 7 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    This thread comes up every month or two.

    So it muuust the a top 100 thread!

    #39 7 months ago
    Quoted from Frippertron:

    Any list that doesn't have Eight Ball Deluxe in the top 20 is flat out wrong! That's another thing, I grew up with 80's games and they are my personal favorite but they don't get a lot of love on the top game lists even though a large number of us pinheads prefer the pre dmd games.

    The EM 100 list seems to be more valid. To compare the 70’s and 80’s SS to the DMD era is like comparing apples to oranges. Maybe it’s time to have a new catagory.

    #40 7 months ago

    Some of the Stern games in the last 10 years are better than the top 4

    #41 7 months ago

    I think u nailed it bro... needs a new category ..

    Any game after lcd screen should have own category etc...

    #42 7 months ago

    .

    #43 7 months ago

    It would be great to have options to view the top 100 for all games, games made in the past 20 years, 10 years, 5 years, 1 year.

    #44 7 months ago

    to many new guys in the hobby now, they all love the first game they get and rate it high. prob ain't played over 20 different games in their life. top 100 is useless now.

    #45 7 months ago
    Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:

    to many new guys in the hobby now, they all love the first game they get and rate it high. prob ain't played over 20 different games in their life. top 100 is useless now.

    While I agree the old guys didn't do it any justice either. I think MM,MB and AFM are fine games but its the old timers that keep them in the top 10. I enjoy rating games and the list can be used as a very loose guide but if it disappeared from this site all together, couldn't care less.

    #46 7 months ago

    Considering it’s soley on opinions, the ranking is flawed. Unless there is a grading system, and baselines to compare features to, it will never be a true list.

    #47 7 months ago

    No different than the top 250 movies list over at IMDB.

    It's for entertainment, a listing of top voted games, don't worry about it beyond that.

    Personally, I believe both the movies list and the pinball list to be quite helpful in finding new things, but not nearly as helpful as knowing what you personally enjoy.

    #48 7 months ago

    Why not have A top 10 or top 25 pins of the year?
    That we can vote at the end of every year?

    #49 7 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    It would be great to have options to view the top 100 for all games, games made in the past 20 years, 10 years, 5 years, 1 year.

    That would be cool, maybe have filters to select games by year, then filter those in order of ranking -

    Hi there Panzer, hope you're doing well!

    10
    #50 7 months ago

    I think a lot of people take this kind of thing too seriously. The top 100 is a great reference point and I think it'sgenerally very good.

    I don't get caught in the details. If someone asked me what the best pinballs machines of all time were, I would direct them to the top 100. The specific order may not be perfect or how you would like it, but overall it's a great overall benchmark.

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