(Topic ID: 228294)

Is my system 3-6 transformer broken, how to measure?

By RestonVA

5 years ago


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  • 16 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by wayout440
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 5 years ago

My Stellar Wars does not work (only GI, no sound, no display, no blinking CPU led, blows F2) and after getting all boards fixed and shorts resolved I looking at the transformer but I am not sure if I measured it correctly.

For AC I measured between two wires of the same color, I did that on the 12 pin connector.
For AC I used my multimeter with one probe on the metal plate in the back box (ground).

1  Violet Lamps (+18 VDC) I measured 14VAC to ground but no DC
2 Orange (+28VDC) I measured 8VAC to ground but no DC
4 White 90 VAC I measured 97VAC
9 White 90 VAC I measured 97VAC
10 Gray 18.7VAC I measured 19VAC
11 Gray 18.7VAC I measured 19VAC
12 Gray-White 18.7VAC C.T I measured 20VAC to ground and 9.7 to either White (what does C.T. mean?)

I disconnected the Red and Blue wires from the rectifiers, and tested both the rectifiers with my DMM as good.
Between the Blue wires (Lamp 13.5VAC) I measured 11VAC
Between the Red wires (Solonoid 25.5VAC) I measured 30VAC

Is it broken and do I need a new one or did I just measure it incorrectly?

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#2 5 years ago

Transformer appears ok from your measurements. C.T. means "center tapped". You measured that ok, 9.7VAC to either white for each half of the center tapped secondary, then across end to end of that secondary winding is 2 X 9.7VAC= 19.4 (roughly the total 20VAC you measured) - so that is ok. That 20VAC needs to be making it over to the power supply board

The transformer appears o.k., so your problems are elsewhere. To check the controlled lamps voltage, measure DC across the violet and black wires of C61 big cap. Should be roughly 15VDC. You need to check the power supply board +5VDC. Fuse F5 gets the 20VAC from the transformer.

F2 fuse is for the solenoids, so you have some problem taking out F2 fuse, usually a sticking on solenoid either because of a switch or maybe a shorted transistor. I'd leave the solenoid fuse out and work on what might be going on with the game not booting, starting with checking the +5VDC logic voltage.

#3 5 years ago

Thanks wayout440 for helping me!

C61 is that huge blue one? I measured 20.9VDC across that one and with everything plugged in except F2 it is around 17VDC.
Fuse F5 measures 12.8VDC to ground and with everything plugged in 10.8VDC (how should I measure AC?).
On 1P2-5 I measured 4.9VDC to ground.

When I power the machine I hear a short beep and the two red LEDs stay on.

Sometimes when I power on, the red LEDs blink and the lamp attract mode starts, but no displays and no response to start button or coin slot switch.

The attract mode freezes when I press the Advance (right) coin door button. When I press the Diagnostics button (SW1), the bottom LED goes on and the attract mode stops. The two LEDs stay on while I keep the Master button pressed, with no change in attract mode.

Any more suggestions?

#4 5 years ago

Have you seen any battery corrosion on the board? Perhaps post some clear pics of this area to look at.

Sounds like blanking might be shutting things down when those displays come up. A host of possibilities. Is the power correct and stable every time the game is powered up - such as measured directly off a Vcc pin (take measurement off any of the ROMs, pin24) Is the crystal oscillator running every time and at the correct frequency?...Clock IC after that. Almost any IC on the board could be drawing too much current, overheating from aging and suppressing power up. A bad PIA can cause a similar effect...sometimes this can be located by your sense of touch. If one of them is getting hot enough to burn your finger compared to others that may be just warm. I'm just throwing suggestions out there.

I'm leaning toward some type of instability of CPU, just from reading the previous comment. Possibly something that requires more advanced troubleshooting. The things you have indicated do not really show any red flags for the transformer, and probably not the power supply, if 4.9VDC is actually getting to the ICs on the CPU.

2 weeks later
#6 5 years ago

Yes, there is some corrosion, all boards were revised and fully tested and should be okay, but I am doubting it is done correctly, see attached pictures.

Testing my sense of touch:
First ic21, 22 and 26 (PROM 1,2 and 3) get really warm.
Then ic9, 10 (data bus transceivers).
Finally ic1 warms up.

I measured 4.923VDC on all ROMs pin24. But I don't know how to measure the crystal oscillator, the measurement tools I have at hand are a Fluke 87V and an Elstar LP-1 Logic probe. Do I need something else?

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#7 5 years ago

Power seems ok. Did you repin the connectors? Hard to tell from the pics. Measuring the oscillator requires a frequency counter or oscilloscope.

#8 5 years ago

The previous owner said he did repin all connectors. I just remember that my GM328 has a frequency tester. I hooked it up between test pin 5 and ground and it says 0Hz, or should I connect it so something else?

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#9 5 years ago
Quoted from RestonVA:

I just remember that my GM328 has a frequency tester.

The frequency input on the GM328 should be on the back of the board: Depending on the speed of the micro on your GM328 it may or may not be fast enough to measure what you're looking at but give it a try.

GM328_FreqInput.jpgGM328_FreqInput.jpg

#10 5 years ago

Wow, you are completely right, thanks for that picture Quench!

However, while the lamp attract mode is running it still measures 0Hz, with GND connected to TP10 and the Input connected to TP5 (and I also tried TP6). Should I try another test-pin or get a better frequency counter?

#11 5 years ago

There are no test pins for oscillator CR1 (in pic below it is the silver metal can) you need to take the measurement at the part. Since the pins are not accessible when the board is installed, you can also measure the part between ground and pin 2 of IC5. The frequency should be stamped on the part, I think it is 3.579545 Mhz. I don't think the GM328 will measure it though, as the highest spec I can find on it is 2 MHZ. Measure with the game power on. If no oscillation frequency is measured, it is fluctuating strongly with time, or it is at a different to the stated value, then the crystal oscillator is likely to be faulty.
Screenshot at 2018-11-23 03-46-13 (resized).pngScreenshot at 2018-11-23 03-46-13 (resized).png

#12 5 years ago

Following from @wayout440, looking at the schematics TP6 is the clock out from the 6808 CPU which is the crystal frequency in divided by 4 - i.e. you should measure around 900kHz at TP6 to know the CPU is buffering / oscillating the crystal and getting a clock in.

#13 5 years ago

After reseating all IC's now besides the attract mode light show the displays started to work, all zeros and the player one display is blinking between 55000 and 00000. Still 0Hz on TP6 and pin 2 of IC5 so I don't trust the GM328, would the blinking not be evidence that the CPU is working fine?

Maybe this would get a reading?
https://www.amazon.com/1Hz-50MHz-Digital-Oscillator-Frequency-Electronic/dp/B07KFV7P9H/

#14 5 years ago

Most likely there were some contiaminants, resisdue, or oxidation on the socket pins, possibly from the previous corrosion. Yes, the diagnostic blinking LED is a good indicator that the CPU is running. Your earlier post said sometimes you have it, sometimes the LED is not on and blinking. So is it actually fixed?....maybe. Repeated power on cycles and changes in temperature or game vibration could cause the intermittent to resurface again. If the crystal wasn't oscillating at all you wouldn't get that far - so not so important at the moment.

#15 5 years ago

Sorry, I was not clear enough, only the lamps on the play field are blinking and player one display between 55000 and 00000. Both diagnostic LEDs are off. When I power the machine both diagnostic LED's blink once and remain off.

I now removed the driver board, when I power the machine, both LED's blink once and then they go on and remain on. Does that give any indication if the CPU board is working?

#16 5 years ago

The MPU board will not boot without the driver board connected. Has the MPU to driver board connector been rebuilt? That is a huge trouble source for this series ofof Williams games.

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