(Topic ID: 161363)

Is my AC drawing power away from my pins?

By Nokoro

7 years ago


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  • 47 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Yipykya
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

Just seeing if people think I'm crazy here. Lately, I've been noticing that the coils on one of my pins (which is brand new) seem just a tad weaker at times -- not all the time, just at times. I don't think anyone but me would notice because you would have to play a lot to tell the difference, but the flipper and VUK coils seem like (again, just at times) they don't have the same umph. This can even happen in the middle of a game. I noticed that this coincided with our use of the AC as the weather has gotten hotter. When the AC turns on and off, the lights in the house flash slightly, so I'm wondering if the somewhat weaker coils happen when the AC comes on, and when it is off, the coils are normal again. Since my pins are in the basement, and there is no AC down there, I can't tell directly if there is a correlation.

Anyway, am I crazy, or could this be a thing? If it is a thing, would buying a UPS help?

#5 7 years ago

Yeah, I notice it on my WOZ where you can individually tune the power to each coil. I had them pretty tuned in, but something seems a bit off. I don't notice so much on my other two pins. I'll look into a UPS. Any recommendations?

#11 7 years ago

This article seems like a good explanation of UPSs.

http://www.davidgoward.com/downloads/free-articles-tips/june-2012-articles/the-benefits-of-using-an-uninterruptible-power-supply/

Sounds like to get constant voltage, I would need to buy a high end one.

#17 7 years ago

I don't think low voltage is the problem because I can adjust the individual coil power on WOZ. Rather, I think it is inconsistent voltage resulting, likely, from my AC. Right now, it is a very minor issue. I'll watch it and see if it gets worse as we hit summer. I don't want to spend a lot of money on a high end UPS only to have it not correct anything. And, if they only regulate voltage to +\- 5 volts, I would want to make sure the drop in voltage from the AC is over that tolerance before buying anything.

Quoted from PinballAir:

A time delay built into the thermostat or into the a/c to prevent premature cycling of the a/c will lessen this effect if it calls before pressures have equalized.

This is interesting, but I'm not sure what you mean. Can you explain more?

#20 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

An a/c builds pressure in the system as part of the refrigeration process. The compressor takes a large amount of electricity (Current) to get it spinning.
If the system does not sit idle long enough between cycles the pressure does not equalize. The compressor will start against that pressure causing it to have a "hard " start. This increases the current needed to make it spin.
Most modern digital thermostats have a built in time delay that begins timing out at the end of the last cycle. A delay on break time delay. They usually are 4 or 5 minutes. This allows the pressures to equalize during the off cycle .
If there is not one in the thermostat one can be added in the condensing unit.
The newer High efficiency a/cs ( last 4 years or so) do not equalize in that time period as they use a different metering device for the refrigeration process.
I generally install a 10 minute delay. It is not noticeable as temperature goes and it extends the life of the a/c.
Other causes of voltage drop related to a/c could be panel related. Unbalanced load, loose lugs, etc.

Got it. We do have a delay, but I don't think it is 10 minutes. I'll see if there is a setting.

Quoted from BazaarMunchkin:

I know nothing about whether a UPS will fix your situation OP. But for recommendations on UPS's (and surge suppressors in general), here are the brands I recommend in order from best to worst. This is from multiple decades of testing and real-world use.
Tripp-Lite
APC
CyberPower
PowerMaXX
Good luck with your troubleshooting.

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind if I want to try it. I believe someone else recommended CyberPower.

3 weeks later
#21 7 years ago

Now that summer is in full swing, I decided to take some voltage measurements. Readings were taken at 2:00 pm on Sunday. When the AC was off, I got 120 volts from the outlet. When the AC was on, I got 119 volts. Just a slight difference. I don't think a UPS would help with that from reading the specs. I'm not sure if that small difference should even be noticeable, but it seems to be. I need to do other readings at other times of day. It could be there is a larger difference depending upon the time of day and what is going on with others in town.

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from Neal_W:

OK, power dip is not the issue. Maybe the flippers are getting hot and weaker or some other issue with the pin. Which pin is it?

WOZ. I'm not sure I can draw any conclusions from this one test. The pin was playing ok today. I think I'll keep randomly measuring voltage to see if there is any variation at different times.

1 week later
#25 7 years ago

So, I've been doing random measurements of the voltage and always getting 119+ or 120. And my game was playing fine. But, then, this morning, while playing WOZ, I had one of those instances where the throne room saucer just weakly kicked out the ball to limply go right down the drain instead of to the left flipper like it usually does. I quickly checked the voltage and measured 118 for the first time. Again, just one data point. But that seems to be the most direct correlation yet between voltage drop and game performance. I'm not sure if the AC kicked in at that time since I was in the basement, but there was definitely a dip in voltage. I might just have to live with this as I'm not sure a UPS will do anything for that small a dip. But it is interesting how a tiny dip can impact a game. WOZ does seem pretty sensitive to these things.

#29 7 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

A drop of 0.83% ( zero point eight three percent ) should fall well within the design range of anything plugged into your outlet. A five percent tolerance is normal, ten is frequently acceptable.
Your testing methodology isn't providing you with any data that's going to help solve your problem.
You need to know if the power at the coil in question is low when the problem is happening. A data logging multi meter can tell you that.
amazon.com link »

Thanks, but that's a pretty expensive diagnostic tool. It is just a minor and infrequent annoyance, so I'll probably just live with the uncertainty.

Quoted from Sputnik:

You may be experiencing a lagging power factor. The AC unit will consume the reactive component in the circuit. Your local electrical utility is most likely having loading issues on their distribution lines. They may not have additional capacitor banks to switch in for correction. The voltage can remain constant and the ability of the circuit to do work can greatly diminish.

I'm not sure I understand this. I'm not that knowledgeable in this area. Can you explain? Thanks.

2 weeks later
#31 7 years ago

Really, really hot day today. Even my Star Trek Pro was feeling sluggish. Decided to take a reading from the outlet. I got 114-115 volts, my lowest measurement yet. So, that's a 5-5.5 volt difference from my highest measurement.

#34 7 years ago
Quoted from Electrocute:

Sounds like your getting a voltage drop when your compressor "kicks" in. Replace the run capacitor and install a hard start kit. Those parts should cost about $50.

Actually, I was only getting a little drop from my AC. The big drop today must be due to the town. Everyone has their AC on. It is hot!

Quoted from vid1900:

$15 Kill-A-Watt Meter

That looks really cool!

#42 7 years ago

All of these automatic voltage regulators seem to operate at +/- 5% of 120 volts. I don't think that will help with the minor variations that I'm getting but which still seem to affect performance somewhat. I may get the thing Vid pointed out just to monitor and see if the draw on power is more than that.

Somewhat off topic, but could a drop in voltage affect the signal you get from your wifi router. Since the weather has gotten hot, it seems Netflix and other streaming services that I get through wifi have slowed down.

#43 7 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Somewhat off topic, but could a drop in voltage affect the signal you get from your wifi router. Since the weather has gotten hot, it seems Netflix and other streaming services that I get through wifi have slowed down.

Never mind. I seem to have corrected the problem by unplugging my router and plugging it back in again.

Correlation does not always equal causation.

2 weeks later
#44 7 years ago

I needed a new surge protector so decided to try a UPS with AVR. I bought this:

https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP685AVR-G-685VA-390W-Compact/dp/B00095W91O/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1

And, yes, I got the cheapest UPS with AVR I could find.

Unfortunately, when I play WOZ, the thing beeps every time one of the magnets goes off. A beep means an overload. I'm not an expert in electronics, but really??!! It can't handle a pinball machine. The instructions (which I only read when I received the device) say don't plug vacuums, laser printers, copiers, etc. into it because those large electronic devices will cause an overload. I guess I have to return it. I probably should have paid attention to the specs more before I bought it, but I'm not sure I would have caught this. Feeling frustrated.

#46 7 years ago
Quoted from Yipykya:

Spend that money on an adequately sized voltage regulator. That will solve the worry you started this thread about. What's the point of having and paying for a built in backup battery? Your pin isn't popping the breaker in the fuse box is it?

Yeah, I know. I knew I was being cheap on this. But, I wanted a decent surge protector and figured for $30, I could get that plus UPS. And, then, for $30 more, I could add voltage regulation. I knew it might not help with anything, but I figured it couldn't hurt. Since my issue is just a minor annoyance, why not try it? I didn't want to spend more. That said, I didn't expect it to beep loudly every time a magnet was used. That's now a major annoyance.

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