Agreed, GZ is a very special modern game. The ancient classic generic IPs of long ago should be way down the list. Old timers, let go of all your nostalgia for the ancient Em/DMD era of the long ago past. Modern games blow those old relics away in every regard.

There is not much to the games of last century, that were only designed for throwing in a dime or quarter for 5-10 minutes of play every now and again. MM, MB, AFM and now CC, all have in common, huge nostalgia, decent layouts, super shallow code, generic IPs, worn out callouts, old DMD era electronic music, average artwork: which all leads to boring game play, after the 500th time shooting. People like to look at them, but true pinball players move them out of their collection pretty fast.

Lol, it’s still the exact same game of a quarter century ago, don’t be fooled. It’s like saying a car with a few upgraded parts from a quarter century ago drives/performs as well or better than a 2022 model. Preposterous!

Right on the money about GNR all LEDs and not fun to shoot after seeing all the cover songs, over and over again, it shoots like a slow moving old dog. Loaded with MB after MB and the GNR apologists say we just don’t understand why they use so many MBs. Oh yes we do, because there is nothing else in the machine mech wise to program or shoot for in the game. It’s basically empty, except for lots of lights, a pizza spinner and couple of ball locks, with $3 drums sticks for a habit trail. It has the lowest BOM of all JJPs 6 games.

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You old timers might get over the old blasts from the long ago past. MM was fine in its day a quarter of a century ago, but almost everything coming out now blows it away from nearly any company. It is a very shallow game meant to load in a few quarters only and then go to another simpleton game like AFM, CC or MB. These games are only ranked, because of strong nostalgia and re-releases by CGC, so owners want this game to stay high. Let’s face it, the false 100 ranking system is completely meaningless. It’s an owners duel to keep their games up in the false 100 rankings. It was an experiment that hasn’t worked here on pinside. Any thinking person knows there is nothing behind the rankings. If games were ranked by sales, then that’d be legitimate, but since they aren’t, Pinside owner ranking system is pure fantasy.

Right on the money. Introduce for the first time any of these no name, non licensed titles and sales today would be completely dismal. Non licensed games only worked in the long ago past, because locations were doing all the buying. Look no further than a modern day no name non licensed theme like DI. Sellers almost can’t give that title away, where other JJP titles still lose money, but not as much as DI. Exception is POTC, because only 1k were made in total. AP has the same problems with all their no name, non licensed themes. Can’t give them away and they also do not hold value. Only big name licensed themes sell well and hold value in today’s market, false 100 be damned.

Was speaking to an operator recently. He said modern Sterns and CGC all work almost flawlessly, while he has nothing but nonstop problems with B/W games and can’t figure out why people think they’re built like tanks?

Makes complete sense to those not trying to defend their old collections. New parts and modern day machines will hold up much better over time, far better than the old B/W machines of the last century. Ask any operator what a nightmare they were back in the long ago past to maintain and they’ll fill your head with nightmarish servicing stories of way back then. Those machines were new at that time, so it is an apples to apples comparison. Stern for one has a testing facility that simulates many years worth of use and they’ve found all the units with the new upgraded cabinets since 2019, prove to be in better shape than the old relics of more than a quarter century ago. At the prices we are paying they should be and modern tech is so much more advanced than the dark ages of the B/W DMD era.

Lol, funny!

I was my schools favorite bully and Uncle Gary pays me quite well. Lol

Many and enjoy playing them.

Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!

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Just because feedback or others opinion don’t align with your’s, doesn’t mean the feedback should be so insidious like it is so much of the time here on one of the meanest user sites on the net. There is better feedback: respect and kindness for others opinions, even if they don’t agree with your’s is the better way. All the up/down vote is childish and nonsensical and proves nothing. It becomes laughable, at the very least. If you don’t agree with another’s opinion, fine. Wouldn’t it be a far better way to express your opinion in a respectful manner to others? After all, we are not against each other here or shouldn’t be. We are discussing manufacturers and their product, which is open fair game in a forum. Now think long and hard about that feedback…

It’s easy to list, as I own every modern Stern, along with some other manufacturers. (Stop name calling, just because one expresses their opinion doesn’t make them a troll, because if that’s the case you’re a troll too.)

Thanks, I agree with you and have the same mantra. What we say face to face should be the way we conduct ourselves here in the forum. But because owners of some machines become so evangelical, they attack others by downvoting, which I’ve had a great deal of by the JJP fanboys in particular. I own JJP games and like them, but have had so many issues like many others here have had too that this is a place to discuss them. For example, fanatics want to defend bad PFs instead of discussing our frustrations together.

Thanks to adoring fans like you, this is a better place???

MM is #1 because of extreme manipulation and nostalgia that’s it. Its a good old relic of the long ago past. There is simply not much to it in reality. The castle shot with simple layout is so passé. Even Brian Eddy can’t believe it’s number one. It is manipulated to be there to keep Stern from being number one by the haters. In fact all 3 and soon to be 4 old timer relics from the last century are there to keep all pinball companies down and keep the old timer machines up there for their own satisfaction. Even George G. said he cannot figure out why MB is up there at all. Its good but not that good. Lol

Any good player can see all MM has to offer 3 or 4 times over in one setting. Boring after the 50th time and the very reason all most all owners move it out. GZ blows it away in every regard.

Only if the old timers keep giving it 1s and 10s to the ancient relic MM.

Lol (sarcasm), but loaded with real truth. After 20 to 30 years, items become classified as antiques. MM, AFM, MB and now CC are real world antiques, but can understand why old skutters love their relics from the long ago past. Short ball times and shallow code, with difficult shots, operators love, because we keep pumping in the dollars. As a home owner, these ancient DMD old tech shallow code relics don’t cut it and the reason why after the FOMO fades, awakened owners, even you downvoting old geezers sell them off. Lol

GZ should easily stay number 1 unless the old geezers continue to manipulate the “false 100”.

Very nice collection and you’ve got them in such beautiful shape too! I’d take these over the remakes: CC original, cool! Your collection is the exception to the rule.

Sorry, vpins don’t hold a candle to the real mechanical pinball experience. Lights, mechs, sounds, callouts, music, LCD back box: vpin experience not even close. In fact light years apart. I’d take any manufacturers offering over a vpin loaded with 300 virtual pinball games.

Okay, okay, you’re on to me now. Not 15, but 35 and live in a single wide trailer on the outskirts of LA. Its not what you’d call very new, but serves the purpose. Wall to wall throwback machines all over the place. Kind of tough getting those wide bodies through the front door….stopped eating bonbon’s and lazing on the couch, so trim again…had to, couldn’t fit through the front door either…

48D74D79-495F-4CB6-A871-C0254BE74DF1 (resized).jpeg My old MM is not in much better condition than my home, but GZ LE is on the way. So things are beginning to look up!

Come on over PtownPin, you’re not that far and you could see my collection….I could give you the ol Jim We5t pinball pro shooting pointers. Around a 5 hour trip is all and I’ll put on some dinner for ya, before playing some MM and WOZ…

You probably didn’t like it, because you didn’t learn the Dorthy/Toto skill shot maneuvers. It’ll turn you around a third time.