(Topic ID: 297248)

Is MM about to be dethroned as #1?

By Damonator

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 519 posts
  • 159 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Kneissl
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

FCFC7F29-B57D-4FDF-8B16-9CFCB27D2585 (resized).jpeg
gz (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
48D74D79-495F-4CB6-A871-C0254BE74DF1 (resized).jpeg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
89AC22DA-F257-43C6-BA2B-AE818D290057.gif
seems-a-little-crazy (resized).jpg
FBB00C66-18DD-40F3-AA21-F8103B180979 (resized).jpeg
Beavis (resized).jpeg
AE33D1BB-F41C-4178-A8D7-837B712F0FB0 (resized).jpeg
252AEAF0-E708-4BD2-BB2C-BB1C83AF8765 (resized).png
20211130_180340.jpg
20211130_180318.jpg
frame_04_delay-0.1s.gif
62872CE6-6BED-4089-9F16-FE4101B6A8AC (resized).jpeg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider altan.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#105 2 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

.. That doesn't make sense to me - MM still has great dots, even if LCD's are the "thing" now. It shouldn't lose rating points because technology has changed. The code isn't deep like today's games, but it's still really good. 90's WMS games shouldn't lose rating points over time ...

First, let me say I agree with you.

There is so much subjectivity here and different voters consider it differently. Examples (in addition to what you wrote):

- Does inclusion of a 15" LCD means inherent better rating than a traditional DMD?
- If so, then does inclusion of a larger 27" LCD mean inherent better rating than a smaller 15" LCD?
- If so, maybe ask yourself ... is a wide body pin better than a standard (because it's bigger)?
- Are "deep" rules really better than "normal" rules? Someone could restate this as "Are complex rules better than accessible rules"? Or, are big rulesets better than smaller ruleset?

While those were aspects of how technology might impact rating, some other aspects to consider

- Should build quality be included in a review?
- Should ability to manually repair a game using commonly available tools be a factor?

I suspect there'll be lots on different answers to the above, all being inconsistency applied to the ratings.

#146 2 years ago
Quoted from Damonator:

Whatever you are filtering is making JP and EHoH disappear. Maybe that’s your intent?

Avoiding the JJP (and eventually Stern added) stuff, I found the filter from koji very interesting! I recreated it, which doesn't require much, he showed it all. I had never played with it.

In short, all he did was

1) Use only approved raters (pretty sure this is the default for official top 100 too)
2) Ignore ratings from raters that are no longer active (this isn't the top 100 default, I believe)
3) Enable a trimmed mean function to exclude outliers. Roughly speaking, this tosses out votes that are "extreme" (but I don't know the exact formula)

That's it!

EDIT: Well, not quite. As pointed out, he also required 250 votes. The info below is based on requiring 25 votes.

A result of using the custom view is that games are no longer grouped. You might think your favorite game at 30 has moved a lot further down, but that because the 17 variations of each recent Stern and JJP game are ranked individually.

If you look closer, you'll see interesting things such as

1) Stern JP Pro is rated about the same a CFTBL (#33 and #34)
2) However, #32 is MMr "LE"
3) Whereas the OG MM is #1
4) And the OG MMr (aka Standard) is #7
5) EHOH is #48 sandwiched between Deadpool LE and Torn Legacy LE

I think this link includes the filter settings

https://pinside.com/pinball/top-100/custom?gamefamily=mg&only_games_from=&only_games_to=&machine_manufacturer=&avgcalc=trimmed_mean&approved_raters_only=1&active_members_only=1&rate_max_age_months=0&minimum_ratings_count=25

2 weeks later
#171 2 years ago

Well, it's all a snapshot in time, isn't it?

While the Top 100 is broken in many ways, at a minimum the default should require 100 votes to be included. If a game cannot muster 100 votes, that's a sign in itself.

#219 2 years ago

14 and 23 now.

Clarification:
14 is Mando
23 is RM

#233 2 years ago

Was just thinking...

With how people vote, CCr will be number one in two days.

#243 2 years ago

Haven’t you all heard of binary voting? Well, 1’s and 10’s.

That pinsider is a strong proponent.

2 months later
#281 2 years ago
Quoted from Mattyk:

I personally don’t see how anyone can give a 10 rating. It means that it is the best and could not be any better. However there is always something better or an aspect of a game that could be better. Even more dumb is when people rank multiple games a 10. Makes zero sense.

Not to turn this into a discussion of rating, but I'll add one comment related to this topic.

Ratings are all relative whether you realize it or not. There's no strong definition of a 5. Or a 1. Or a 10 ...

So how does someone determine what, for example, a 10 is? Simply by looking at what other people have given a 10 (or what is a 5? what games have an average of 5?)

The result, therefore, is the values have no meaning in themselves but they are relative. And you might ask, "relative to what"? The answer to this is "it changes over time."

TL;DR. If someone likes game X more than game Y, they are going to ensure whatever numbers they give their preferred game is higher than Y. The number doesn't matter as long as it's higher. If you believe my statement, then it follows that people just give "10s" because they think the game is better than any game that doesn't have an average of 10. It doesn't mean it's a perfect game, it's just a relative value.

I myself kind of follow this, but I have a rule I don't give 10s. I'll do a 9.9.

Just my opinion. With no formal criteria, it's hard for me to imagine it plays out differently.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 37.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
 
$ 119.99
Cabinet - (Alt) Translites
FlyLand Designs
 
From: $ 55.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Photos LLC
 
$ 49.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Hookedonpinball.com
 
From: $ 130.00
Lighting - Backbox
Myth Pinball Parts Shop
 
$ 78.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PinWorlds
 
From: $ 33.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Rocket City Pinball
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Richmond, VA
$ 5.00
Playfield - Plastics
UpKick Pinball
 
From: $ 45.00
Cabinet - Decals
arcade-cabinets.com
 
$ 69.99
Cabinet - Decals
Inscribed Solutions
 
Trade
Machine - For Trade
Pinson, AL
$ 10.00
Playfield - Other
Loop Combo Pinball
 
From: $ 9,499.00
Pinball Machine
Paradise Distribution
 
14,500
Machine - For Sale
Bristow, VA
$ 12.95
Playfield - Other
Hookedonpinball.com
 
€ 99.00
Lighting - Under Cabinet
Watssapen shop
 
10,500
Machine - For Sale
Cleveland, TN
$ 9.95
$ 45.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
 
$ 35.00
$ 24.99
Cabinet - Decals
Bent Mods
 
From: $ 30.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 5.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
€ 75.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pino Pinball Mods Shop
 
$ 18.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
 
From: $ 31.50

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider altan.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-mm-about-to-be-dethroned-as-1?tu=altan and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.