Pinside ratings. As you play games, you can rate each one.

No BW has or will ever have as good a light show as a modern Stern. Have you played anything with dual color GI that integrates into code? Star Wars, TMNT, etc that’s just the start of the difference.

Also, skill level effects enjoyment. You’re new so don’t take this the wrong way but deep code isn’t overrated if you can complete it. Fish Tales is one of the most boring games ever made.

IMHO, our Mando LE is built as well as any B/W pin. I still remember my first impression unboxed. Wow, what a beautiful detailed pin and built like a tank. Second impression. Why so many deep side decal chips and scrapes? Stern needs to ship machines plastic wrapped in the box.

Was speaking to an operator recently. He said modern Sterns and CGC all work almost flawlessly, while he has nothing but nonstop problems with B/W games and can’t figure out why people think they’re built like tanks?

The remakes are of a known licensed property though aren’t they?

I've got 19 B/W's on the floor and do not have much in the way of problems with them. I would assume that the "built like tanks" mantra comes from the fact that they are all operating well @ 25 years old. Parts are now common, relatively cheap and repairs are easy, even to the boards.

99.9% of the time it's a jammed coin mech because people can't seem to comprehend trying to force more quarters in when the slot is jammed just wastes quarters.

The weight.

With modern sterns I would guess it would come from the wait?

To be fair, all B/W pins are at least 20 years old.

Are you implying that it’s an apples to apples comparison between a 1 or 2 year old game with modern chips/CPU and a 25+ year old game still running logic chips and incandescent bulbs?

I wouldn't know, I've never heard someone rally for built like tank sterns here
Edit: Spike versions that is

I get what you're saying, and I agree. I just didn't realize that most pinsiders and voters on the top games really honestly believed that newer games were not better than the older ones with basic fan layouts. Shallow rule set games with fan layouts are awesome, especially for a quick ten minute session before work. Looking at the big picture, it seems that more often than not people do prefer simpler games, but I have a hard time not playing Iron Maiden Premium and believing whole heartedly that it is a far better game than MM or MB, and other top ranked games. the sound, lights, and art, not to mention playfield variety of shots really resonates.

Perhaps it is the simple rules and fan layouts which most voters prefer, so MM, AFM, and MB are so widely regarded as top 10. Fan layouts are a bit too repetitive for me, but I still enjoy them. I just love the variety of shot depths, angles, and interesting ball paths which are created by a NON fan layout, so I vote accordingly.

I unboxed my GZ Premium last week and was surprised how light weight it is. There's almost nothing in the cabinet. It really doesn’t take much effort to nudge them, either. By contrast, my White Water and Fish Tales feel much heavier and stout.

I have a feeling if the new Sterns were moved around on a route as much as most of the B/W pins, you’d see more cabinet problems. Actually, didn't Stern have splitting cabinet problems not long ago?

MM, AFM, etc have a great balance of fast play, comedy and immersive callouts and music. They HAD to. It was the only way to earn quarters back then. That’s the difference. They were built for quick games, lots of continues, and move on.

In a home environment they are great fun with Colordmd, sound boards with amazing music and callouts which make them feel new again to us OG guys.

I played GZ, it was mediocre only due to flipper failure and waay too much arcade noise. Home environment I may rate it higher if I get to play it.

I am with you on this. Bally williams games are super fun, but they're the ones having problems in my lineup most often. Well, I guess we need to account for the fact that they're 25-30 years old; they're bound to break eventually. maybe its an unfair comparison at the start.

I love the JJP build quality, and my IMDN premium is literally bulletproof (not literally LOL). never had any issues with them beyond a loose screw, and a bad factory magnet on wonka. perhaps I'm a lucky one on both games being trouble free, but i've seen all sorts of games on location and they're usually ready to rock, and never fail, including B/W, stern, CGC, AP, JJP, so operators are stoked.

someday I'll own an AP pin, then i'll get to see how quality they are. I've heard nothing but good things about their build quality.

Your point makes no sense as your comparing 20+ year old games versus new modern games....lets see how Sterns are operating in 20+ years....all my B/W games have been really reliable

Makes complete sense to those not trying to defend their old collections. New parts and modern day machines will hold up much better over time, far better than the old B/W machines of the last century. Ask any operator what a nightmare they were back in the long ago past to maintain and they’ll fill your head with nightmarish servicing stories of way back then. Those machines were new at that time, so it is an apples to apples comparison. Stern for one has a testing facility that simulates many years worth of use and they’ve found all the units with the new upgraded cabinets since 2019, prove to be in better shape than the old relics of more than a quarter century ago. At the prices we are paying they should be and modern tech is so much more advanced than the dark ages of the B/W DMD era.

God lord he's finally tuned away from JJP and has a new target!

Lol, funny!

Your argument boils down to hearsay (just ask an operator about 25 years go) and speculation (new pins will work fabulous in 25 years).

Could just ask an operator running 25 year old B/W's right now how much trouble they are...

Two years ago you were calling JJP pins maintenance nightmares...

Does he even own a pinball machine?

Jimwe5t is on the Stern payroll. jimwe5t were you bullied as a kid? Are you ok?

I was my schools favorite bully and Uncle Gary pays me quite well. Lol

Many and enjoy playing them.

Deeper code does not mean more fun to play. Those are not directly related at all.

I couldn't agree more

Hmmmm.....really....what games?

From his ratings… 25 year old B/W’s obviously!

And they all must have played identical judging by the reviews.

My guess is he doesn't own any pins and he just trolls threads pumping Stern games. I've owned a bunch of games and they all have their pros and cons, and every pin I've owned requires a level of maintenance.

Old games with original themes stay fun just fine. they don't get dated like a game that came out 30 years after the band was relevant or 2 years after the movie came out. People can play space shuttle and taxi all day long even though the games are short and be incredibly satisfied.

Heavily downvoted and moderated, you might be on to something there.

MM will always be a classic. It’s great for pinball if people generally like the newer games better. We’re in a new Golden age.

I think the Top 100 having ALL machines grouped together is a bit silly. I love playing Volley, and I'd rate it high for it's era of games, but overall it can't even come close to comparing to pretty much any modern game.
I think there should be categories for: EM's, early solid state, 90's DMD, 2000's DMD and LCD/LED display.
If we had that kind of separation there wouldn't be much debate about the rankings.

That being said, *for me* Godzilla and Maiden blow MM out of the water. My real question is "Will Godzilla dethrone Maiden as the best Elwin game?" because I already feel he's an absolute GOAT of a designer, it's just a question as to which of his games is the best.

I owned MM, it was fun, we liked playing it, the remake is straight up better than the original in every way, but it just doesn't have lasting power for me in a smaller collection. If you guys like MM and think it's the best game ever made, that's fine. You're wrong, but that's fine.

Everybody is different. we work out everything by approximate game plays. TAF and GOTGLE are the most played games in our collection. Sometimes a game grows on you over time and sometimes you just cannot stop pressing the start button on a new game. If the fun wears off, maybe time to sell and swap out to a different game. Pinball is a fantastic hobby and because everyone likes different things this always makes the hobby fun and interesting.

Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!

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I’ve always used the ratings as a tool when I’m thinking about buying a game. Looks cool, might have played a couple games (or not on those harder to find titles) and liked it, let’s see what the guys who have owned it (or at least put more time on it than me) have to say. Who the hell cares what everyone else thinks when the game is in your house? Have I been Pinsiding wrong all these years? Every review should require a written explanation IMO. I don’t pay attention to the number ratings but if people are seriously pumping with 10s and shitting with 1s without merit, or just constantly shitting on others opinions in general…it may be time to reevaluate your interest in this hobby. Maybe there are a lot of people here for the arguments and drama? Whatever, I’m going to play more Godzilla.

I don't blame you friend. they're better than the older releases of the same layout!!!

Feedback isn’t just for manufacturers and the top 100. It’s also for pinsiders.

Never heard of routed games having cabinet problems. The cabinet problems around GB and 1-2 other titles was simply a bad batch of cabinets that didn’t have proper joints/gluing.

License was the only way to earn quarters back then. MM and AFM didn’t sell well at all compared to their licensed competition. Few exceptions, but licensed games crushed back then just like they do now.

So is MM like POTC in which for years it was hard to get and/or priced high? I've never played POTC but it sounds like its the greatest game ever. I've heard its good, but 20k good? Sane with GnR.. its heralded as the concert in a box and game if the year. I played it.. it was ok to me. Beautiful, but just ok. Then MM. Played it, enjoyed it, but didn't pull me back in. Saw trolls, destroyed a castle, then went to play other pins. I personally like to see new things months after I buy a pin. But I also seldom watch the same movie over and over again, or play a video game that I beat again. I like finding deep code. That's why I dont watch streams. Ill figure it out myself. Name one game that has an original theme in the top 25-50 pins released within the last 5 yrs. Do we have one? Heist at #2 (different style platform), Dialed In #33, and Oktoberfest/Houdini 70s (not sure original theme but close). Everything is a remake or plays off an older version, or is a movie, comic, etc..

Pinside reviews are the equivalent of yelp reviews. Take it with a grain of salt. There are some great games being made today. I think every collection needs some diversity. I have had AFM for 16 years. I still think its fun. I have Godzilla and JP. I think they ae the best since LOTR. However, there are nights I prefer to play BSD, MM, or TZ over GZ or JP. The classics have a certain charm that is timeless. Time will tell how todays games will age. Buy what you like.

Didn't have the internal corner brackets every pin had prior. Maybe a foolish attempt at cost cutting who knows?

Huh? The internal metal brackets were same they had always been. Stern added the bigger B/W style brackets at a later date for added comfort to the buyer.

Stern always used the smaller brackets that every single company other than B/W used for decades without issue. Those bigger brackets don’t hold a cabinet together. Proper gluing and construction does.

As of this writing in the marketplace:

27 Godzillas for sale or trade

12 Medieval Madness for sale or trade

Premiere & Sega crushed W/B sales?
I Didn't witness that.

I don’t understand. Are you saying Thunderbirds is better than either as none are for sale right now?

Yeah and most are pending. Godzilla is better than Medieval Madness. It's not even close. I never understood the infatuation with MM. It is a fun game but most of these reviews were made with nostalgia glasses on.