This seems different than other machines that temporarily go to #1.I see the majority of people love it and rate it high,what I dont see is haters rating it low to tank it.Looks like the real deal.Full disclosure I dont have one,yet.

Seems the same as all the other times to me

Kind of funny reading this thread. I think about the same psychological effect happens with my private collection as well. You get a new game.. play the heck out of it.. it's the best ever. Order new everything for it. Then it sits for a while until you either rediscover it, or move it along.

I think MM will reclaim its spot as No 1. Once more and more people rate GZ I think it will go down in the rankings. I am looking forward to having a go on one soon!

GZ is just the flavor of the month; nothing beats a magical classic like MM!!

I've played GZ 8-10 times now and I've got to say it was just "ok" for me. Shouldn't we wait for it to hit 2k plus reviews to see if it will truly be #1? I'm sure there's more than 190 owners out there. I'm also seeing a lot of LE's and premiums being sold after 40-50 plays. We should get some of those folks' inputs as to why they're letting go of the new number one pinball machine in history.

Make $4k on an LE, then turn around and order a premium for half off (using your LE profit)? Lol...that's why I put my name on the LE list with the local distributor. I'm jumping on that wagon too...

Time to crown the new king?

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Yeah, that's a good racket. Buy an LE, pump up the ratings, then sell for a few thousand more. Rinse and repeat.

No way does Godzuki steal The King of Payne's crown. You're a fun little game, but don't get too comfy at the top me 'ol fella.

Looks like a fun game, but its the flavor of the month...lets see where it sits in another month

Godzilla topper for sale!!!

Prefer payment in Yen.
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And my “ok boomer” comment of the day is that I think you have to go through the top 5 W/B games before you would even get to the best Stern (LOTR), which almost dates back to the end of W/B itself.

oh snap amazing to see Godzilla and Heist at the top of list! wow

Having played GZ Pro a bunch of times onsite, and MM onsite and on the Williams app, GZ is the rare modern pin that I think is a contender for No. 1 - and I’m putting my money on it.

The big joy of MM is the accessibility. It has a huge castle with a drawbridge that is fun to shoot - whether you’re a pro player or my four-year-old son. The rest of the pin is smooth playing, the theme (medieval castles) is widely enjoyed, and the callouts are (largely) family-friendly and humorous.

GZ is very accessible. It’s got a building that is fun to shoot - whether you’re a pro player or my four-year-old son. The rest of the pin is smooth playing, the theme (giant monsters) is widely enjoyed, and the video (and callouts) are largely family-friendly.

Unfortunately, much as I enjoy JP2, it’s a lot harder to get going. MB is very accessible, but less fun for pro players.

That’s not to say that MM isn’t brilliant. It is. But I think GZ is a hot contender - and I’ve only played a Pro.

I say that as someone who is largely underwhelmed by modern Sterns…

I really cant get over the generic(theme) ikea feel of all new stern. I Would love it if Elwin did a game with cgc, AP or jjp.

There is a lot of theme integration in GZ. I was honestly surprised how much they put into the game.

Ha ha! Still early days, lets see where GZ ends up!

Early, sure.. but I don’t think this has happened in the history of pinside ranking. (New game holding #1 for over a month) something special going on with GZ

Anybody know how you get reviews approved or whatever ? I am confused about the process. I'm seeing reviews on pinside which haven't been approved in A YEAR, which has got to skew the final numbers.

Maybe message robin

I think you have to have reviewed a certain number of games? Maybe eight total?

I'm not sure why GZ at #1 is a surprise. MM as cool as it is, is not #1. There are multiple games that are better than MM. Games are so deep with crazy code, light shows, etc.. It's the "old guard" holding games like MM, AFM, and MB at high positions. Go back at adjust your ratings comparing code and lights now. Probably change ratings drastically. They were great i agree, but c'mon some of these new games are awesome. It's ok if Zilla is #1, the pinball world won't collapse. Everyone that has the original or the 6 different versions of MM and the others can still charge crazy prices for 'em, but GZ it is for me.

Had to take a look and yep, his ratings have less than zero credibility! One 10/10 pin I can maybe understand, but 5 or 6 10/10’s… please! And 0/10’s and 3/10’s for top end pins like Deadpool, who is he kidding? Not leaving much room for actual crappy pins.

It’s 100% the reason why Pinside ratings are such a joke.

Heist dethroned MM from number 2, lol…but that won’t last.

The ratings are what they are. What I can’t understand is how a game can be rated a 10.0 but under the comments, there are negative points made. Isn’t a 10 perfection?

Exactly. This isn’t a Spinal Tap amp.

For every 10, you have clowns giving it a 1... for whatever reason. Which is why the ratings are a joke. GZ is sweet.. play it, enjoy it, then decide whether u want MM or GZ.

Nonsense, whoever made such a ridiculous claim? Nothing that is subjective could ever be perfect, by definition - the two concepts are mutually exclusive.

A perfect score simply means that, in the opinion of that reviewer, the item in question is exceptional, that's all. Something can easily be exceptional and still fall short on certain aspects. It's an empirical scale.

I got into pinball in July having played on an iOS app. I’m 41. I rate MM as the best pin of all time with AFM in my top five.

I have two young kids and we own FT and LoTR. I prefer FT. Deep code is definitely overrated. FT with LEDs has just as good lighting as a modern Stern.

Personally, I think the vast majority of modern Sterns are overrated by the old guard who are jaded by having played the Bally/Williams-era games to death. There’s a lot of “oooh, shiny” over some pretty mediocre pins.

That said, I think GZ is excellent and, in general, Keith Elwin is designing games that compare in quality to the vintage 90s pins.

Does the majority of Pinsiders really believe that MM and MB are top five games? I think they're great games like we all do, but to rank them top ten seems to ignore and dismiss more recent titles which offer so much more. If the grading rubric truly is based on simplicity and addictiveness at the expense of long term lastability, code, modern art, modern sound packages, and game design principles which are based on the historical success of older games like bally williams titles from the 90s, then I guess most 90s games would be the obvious top ten choice.

Can't we all admit that modern releases are far more immersive, complex, and sometimes more unique (fewer fan layouts than 90s games) than older titles? I'm not sure it is reasonable to argue that 90s titles are better than modern games in that regard; they were produced to earn money on location by establishing quick, simple satisfaction in the player by rewarding simpler accomplishments. Those old titles did not need to be complex, deep, or lastable in a home collection. Modern games, however, are produced with a different approach, which emphasizes significantly more complexity, advanced sound and art, and far more appeal to home collectors for several reasons. There are more demographics to appeal to now, and that's resulted in far more consideration for lastability in a home collection. Modern games still kick butt on location, mostly based on appealing themes and plenty of quick rewards/hooks for the location player, but they far exceed older titles when it comes to lastability and advanced playfield designs which are favored by collectors.

The games have changed, mostly for the better. We should agree that there is far more to enjoy in modern games, strictly as to complexity and inclusive game experience when compared to 90s titles. older games feel dated by comparison, and very shallow. They're still great titles, don't get me wrong, but they are a sparse offering of pinball experience compared to newer releases. Evolution results in improvement, to our benefit. nobody is dogging older titles, but it seems obvious that they are/were seriously limited in what they offer due to market conditions and technology.

just my two cents

You old timers might get over the old blasts from the long ago past. MM was fine in its day a quarter of a century ago, but almost everything coming out now blows it away from nearly any company. It is a very shallow game meant to load in a few quarters only and then go to another simpleton game like AFM, CC or MB. These games are only ranked, because of strong nostalgia and re-releases by CGC, so owners want this game to stay high. Let’s face it, the false 100 ranking system is completely meaningless. It’s an owners duel to keep their games up in the false 100 rankings. It was an experiment that hasn’t worked here on pinside. Any thinking person knows there is nothing behind the rankings. If games were ranked by sales, then that’d be legitimate, but since they aren’t, Pinside owner ranking system is pure fantasy.

Where do you vote ?

Right on the money. Introduce for the first time any of these no name, non licensed titles and sales today would be completely dismal. Non licensed games only worked in the long ago past, because locations were doing all the buying. Look no further than a modern day no name non licensed theme like DI. Sellers almost can’t give that title away, where other JJP titles still lose money, but not as much as DI. Exception is POTC, because only 1k were made in total. AP has the same problems with all their no name, non licensed themes. Can’t give them away and they also do not hold value. Only big name licensed themes sell well and hold value in today’s market, false 100 be damned.

Top 100 is a nice starting point for newbies to get an idea of what the better games are. FT was the family favorite over BSD, STTNG, TOM, etc for like 7 years before they finally got bored with it. I have AFM over MM personally. And I have both. Top 100 is just like, your opinion , man.

To me MM is #1, not everyone want deep code and games lasting forever. I like the 90s games because they are shallower and much more approachable to a normally skilled player.

Pulling some numbers out of my ass: I'm sure 9 of 10 players prefer a fun easy game of MM rather than studying 30 pages of rules and playing a never ending game of lotr for 30 minutes.

I’m n

AFM and MM are brilliant. They don’t rely on a license for a hook and have just the right balance of rules vs simplicity.

I don’t have any nostalgia for older games as I never played them back in the day.

Except the non-licensed remakes sell like hotcakes now. The highest rated version of MM is a remake with features the originals did not have.

Keith is absolutely the new king of pinball designers.

I’d have to agree with this in principle. Super deep games are amazing once you get to that level, but they don’t get as much mileage from the general public, because they require that you actually OWN one in order to put the time in. I’d much rather have a deep game that I love and keep for years as I try to master it. The trouble
Is, finding a game you like THAT much is tough.

MM and AFM as examples are just deep -enough- and are also easy to understand - and they are actually fun, which is hard to put your finger on. They obviously perform well on location, and lots and lots of people have played them, and enjoyed them and “one more game”’d them. I don’t like MM all *that* much but there’s no denying it’s fun. That factor should blow every other measure of a game out of the water.

Approachable, fun.. I agree. But MM in a home collection needs to be surrounded by other games with deeper code. STh in my house is extremely popular (probably the fav) and compares according to others as an AFM. BUT - STh premium, has telekinesis lock, a projector, insane UV, fantastic Cleland code, easily accessible ramp shots, great modes, assets, a ramp and freakin monster you get to pinhole. The game has depth for 3 ball players and easy to understand stepping it. Side by side, ill take STh over MM and AFM, and definitely MB.

Godzilla tearing down the MM castle walls just seems so thematically on point for pinball.

I didn’t like STh at all. The projectors and UV are very cool but the giant billboard turned me off. I found “pinholing” the gorgon (while very exciting the first time) way to easy as I was able to repeat the shot several more times in the first couple of games I put on one.

I have had limited time on STh but a miss of the Demi shot does not seem as risky for an SDTM as the MM castle shots.

I'm not going to take away from Stern, JJP, CGC, or the many others involved in the newer games - they have done a fantastic job and we should all be happy pinball is still here and going strong thanks to their efforts.

With respect to the top 100 list - It's all subjective
Bottom line as if personal bias wasn't enough, you have an influx of people buying the latest games and pumping up ratings so they can protect their "investment" then turn around and dump em after less than 100 plays. The top 100 list is very reflective of this.

Other factors:

*Build Quality
When you step up to a classic 90s B/W vs a Stern you can certainly tell a difference in build quality yet games cost more than ever.

*Code
Of course the code is "deeper" on the newer machines, but there are only so many shots on the playfield irrespective of the code

*Toppers/Screens/Speaker Lights/Etc
All window dressing as far as I'm concerned - it's all shit you dont look at while actually playing the game

*Theme
Important to many, but still doesn't make a game - surprisingly people take it so seriously they won't own games based on themes

*Fun Factor
All that matters in my book - Either the game is fun or it isn't.

Are you having fun?