1st its not EL, its fiber in the LE

and you are incorrect, there is a proper fiber kit coming out soon that is tied to the modes, and you can make them whatever colors you like

forget stereo, give me better sound than the terrible bit-rate that they are using now even if it's mono... it would not take much to add 44.1khz 16bit stereo... but no we get mono at 24khz, thats terrible.. thats like AM radio quality

and I have played Metallica, it is not the best stern... maybe top 10 but not the best, far from it

truth

lol, the machines don't sound like am radio.

Couldn't agree more

Lol to true

+1

Lets take this poll again, next summer, and see how it fares.

So true. I put FF speakers in my MET Pro and it helps quite a bit, however the board & samples limit what the speakers output. Hard to believe that LE customers get the same crappy speakers as the PRO. Also, what's up with the speaker calibration on late model Sterns? I just picked up a Sopranos and when the volume is on 3-5, the pin is plenty loud (same for my LOTR). OTOH, AC/DC, Tron and MET audio need to be 40-50 to achieve the same loudness. Never understood why it makes sense to calibrate the volume in this fashion. When I first got my AC/DC, I thought it was a bug

1 to 5 in no particular order:

3
5
1
2
4

What about premium? Or is it just the idea of a pretty picture on the side of the cabinet that you can NEVER actually see while playing the game that elevates a title in your eyes?

I have no clue what clubs you're referring to but every club I've dj'd at and every concert I've attended behind the scenes has summed to mono. Modern producers take great care to make sure their latest tracks sound good in mono because when L+R are summed together in a often crappy modern public sound system there can be serious phase cancellation and comb filtering problems, or you just miss out on half the music completely. There are countless classic records and systems that are recorded and mix with very polar L+R channels no doubt but in a modern club (whether you like this EDM era or not) most all systems sum to mono so that one side of the club (or concert) hears the same music as the other.

24" is plenty to achieve good separation. When someone finally pays attention to what you can do with audio, you guys will see the potential that you're missing. The problem is, audio has been of little interest to the pinball industry historically.

Pinball players aren't audiophiles. When I'm in the studio producing, I'm very conscious of my stereo spread and the phantom image I'm building. When I play pinball, I'm swearing at the ball. The music only sets the mood.

It's disappointing that JJP only made WOZ 2.1. They could have made a 5.1 or 7.1 system and had jacks so that the games could be plugged into surround systems... once someone does something like this, everybody's going to freak out and wonder why it wasn't done sooner.

The vast majority of CDs aren't mixed in anything more than stereo (including metallica) so anything more than that would require time and money to build artificial surround sound processing, or some sort of licensing from someone like Dolby for their tech. Time and money better spent on the playfield IMO.

But the second half of the equation is the sound mix design. Even if you're running in stereo, if the mix isn't interesting, it won't matter. But when you've got a good mix + a good system, the result is amazing. The first time I heard "One" and the lead guitar sneaked out from one of the channels with the rhythm guitar on the other, I got chills... It's a shame Metallica is in Mono. Stern could also put a headphone jack with stereo output if they wanted to do justice to the original music.

I agree on your principle of sound design and engineering. It just has no place in a pinball machine IMO. Stern is not going to remix the original tracks to 5.1 or 7.1, and frankly when I'm playing I don't have time to hear the subtleties of the music anyway, even in 2.1. I appreciate good mixing and mastering more than most (listen for the bass on AJFA... Oh wait its practically nonexistent. Average at best mixed album overall... Not as bad as the brick wall limiter on death magnetic mind you...) but that's because when I want to be consumed by tracks like One, I put on headphones or listen in the studio. On 99% of "audiophiles" Bose docking stations the sound is essentially mono, just like a pinball machine.

Is it a fact stern is resampling to 24khz? Seems hard to believe as I'm not noticing frequencies above 12khz being filtered but maybe I haven't paid enough attention... I mean the cd audio tracks would be at 44.1khz so why they would downsample them i have no clue. But Like I said... I'm busy playing pinball haha I might run the machine thru a parametric eq just to take a look at the spectrum for kicks... Lord knows the speakers aren't good enough to fully present the audio properly in the first place.

That's simply poor club sound design. There's no reason you can't run multi-channel mixes throughout a club so at any location you can hear more than one channel. You need to frequent venues with decent sound design.

I am. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Besides, you don't have to be an "audiophile" to appreciate stereo. Jeez.. it's sad I even have to say something like that.

The sound is part of the package, as is the lighting, etc. The fact that Stern's sound system is still 1950s era is kind of pathetic. You can pick up a goofy iPod dock for $40 that sounds infinitely better than Stern's audio.

12 years ago Metallica released an album in surround sound:

http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?3802-Metallica-METALLICA-%28The-Black-Album%29-DVD-A

It's kind of a common thing now for bands to make multi-channel recordings available.

Suffice to say you don't see any value in better sound quality, but some of us do.

I'm not saying that a super-hero-themed game has to have stereo sound, but a music-themed game.. well that's just a no-brainer in my book. If you're doing an homage to a music artist, and playing their songs, they should at least be played in the manner in which they were originally mastered, and both AC/DC and Metallica's albums were released in stereo.

I actually think the stock speakers sound good enough not to upgrade. I have a audio system if I need to hear their music with better quality.

Just me..

But no one (ie average joe) cares. You and I could appreciate it but why bother?

I am. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Besides, you don't have to be an "audiophile" to appreciate stereo. Jeez.. it's sad I even have to say something like that.

You do man. How else do you defend the loudness wars fiasco? Louder = better for most people. We both know that's not the case. Proper mixing and stereo balance are essential, but the joe public doesn't give a crap.

The sound is part of the package, as is the lighting, etc. The fact that Stern's sound system is still 1950s era is kind of pathetic. You can pick up a goofy iPod dock for $40 that sounds infinitely better than Stern's audio.

My docking station sounds better than my pinball machine. From a distance over 3 feet, its not because its in stereo.

12 years ago Metallica released an album in surround sound:
http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?3802-Metallica-METALLICA-%28The-Black-Album%29-DVD-A. It's kind of a common thing now for bands to make multi-channel recordings available.

Correction re-released, and thats not a cd, and its not that common. Sad but true and enter sandman are available in 5.1. How many others from metallica - Arguably the biggest metal band of all time, one surround sound DVD.

Suffice to say you don't see any value in better sound quality, but some of us do.
I'm not saying that a super-hero-themed game has to have stereo sound, but a music-themed game.. well that's just a no-brainer in my book. If you're doing an homage to a music artist, and playing their songs, they should at least be played in the manner in which they were originally mastered, and both AC/DC and Metallica's albums were released in stereo.

My point is, I would challenge 90% of people to stand 5 feet from a high quality ipod docking station and listen to a stereo and a mono version of the identical song, at the same sample and bit rate and I would bet few could tell the difference. If you put a stereo OR mono version thru a pinball machine vs a high quality docking station people will pick the docking station. Step one in the pursuit of better audio for music pins is better speakers and sub, not stereo audio processing. When stern releases machines with flipper fidelity speakers or better, I'll join you in the lobby for stereo processing.

Metallica is not the equal of TSPP, SM, LOTR, ACDC or even FG. It is an OK game that offers little to someone who has any of the later Williams fan layout games such as MM, AFM MB, or even SS.

Well I can't really add my opinions as I have never played one. There's nothing like that around for the public here in Phoenix. That said, I'm not a big fan of music band pinball machines. I know, I know I have to try it to really appreciate it but on the whole the Sterns I like are LOTR hands down. Followed by Spiderman transformers (Love the fact that you can play either side and have different play) Iron Man etc.

Anyone know of a place in AZ that might have one around for the public?

I wish but was lucky enough to be invited to pin party in AZ of great guy who has won and its fun. Should be another one coming up I believe.

Yeah I agree it sounds pretty good

if you extract the audio files from the rom set they are about 23 and change khz sampling rate, when working on them they do indeed roll off at around 12khz, it REALLY REALLY REALLY sucks in tron where you lose all the "sparkle" of the daft punk sound track

Not the best stern but it is better than acdc........... but that wouldn't be hard.

ACDC too hard for ya?? lol

lol that's mean, I have played both and while they are both good machines I don't think either is "the best stern"

TSPP??? I tried to like this pin. Too stop an go. I have put time on it and had a chance at HUO for 4K = passed. Im not clear on the rules I guess.

I owned a HUO TSPP. Rules are superb. Still didn't like the pin much because of how it played.

Haven't played enough to comment on the game. Build quality feels much better than stern in recent history.

You need to try more games. Not a bad game, but not nearly the best. It isn't even finished yet...

Metallica has a ton of potential, but I would still put SM and LOTR ahead of it for sure. Honorable mention would also go to AC/DC Prem. This could change depending on how far they go with the code. I already like it more than Iron Man (which I had in house at the time of getting Metallica Pro), Family Guy and Tron. Never liked TSPP. Still, the fact that it's even open to debate shows that it's a solid game.

Interesting. I'll have to pay closer attention. I'm guessing with the speaker quality it's probably a wash on whether or not the audio is being reproduced properly anyway.

Can you replace the audio with higher sample rate audio with good results? I haven't played with that program so I don't know if there's restrictions on how tracks can be replaced. With tron you're kinda hooped because only a few tracks are available for replacement... The rest are in house compositions.

no unfortunately there is only so much ram space for each sound file so you can't replace them with higher bit rate files

I wish... maybe someday when the editor becomes more mature it may be a possibility *crosses fingers*

Still a lot to do on MetallicA (software,coding) but i really like it already

Patience,it will take at least 1 year to see how it really ends up.
SSssshhhhh d'ont disturb Mr Lyman and Borg at Work!

Meh....tallica will probably fall somewhere #6-8 of Stern's best pins when the dust and hype settles. Just give it time...

I haven't played much of SM or LOTR but I enjoy met. It's fun.

Fun but not a top 5 for Stern.

Might be in minority - white middle-aged man, but I do not like the hammer since it blocks view up middle. I consider that to be a major design flaw of le.

I'd put Metallica at #3 behind LOTR and Tron. Huge potential for owner bias though, since I own Tron and Metallica.

My top 5 Sterns would be, in no particular order:

- Lord of the Rings
- The Simpsons Pinball Party
- Spider-Man
- Tron
- AC/DC

Metallica would sit *barely* outside the top 5 at #6. Don't ask me to rank those other 5 in order, because it's impossible, I say. So yeah, it's a pretty amazing game, but I can't say it's the best Stern has produced.

Nah not too hard, just ugly and boring.

not even close.

LOTR is still the all time champ by a mile.

AC/DC is damn good too

Others at the top of the list.

BDK
TSPP
TF
Sopranos
T3
SM
IM

Then maybe Metallica. All the ones I played, kinda play like ass from design aspect. That nylon post in the back has to go. Double gate the Pop section the way it's suppose to be. Nylon post doesn't work right. The loop doesn't hold it.

In the case of metallica, I think it's because some guys playing it might want to have kids someday.

If you think AC/DC is "boring", you're doing it wrong.

I think the cannon blocking the right lane on AC/DC is much worse.

this +1

I am a bigger fan of the band then pin. Very limited amont of shots. The ramps are a blast to hit, bell, and cannon and that's about it. I wanted so much more with design and creative ideas in this one.

The creative genious is in the code/design that makes it such a great risk/reward pin.

AC/DC Pro > All versions of Metallica.

#1 Sharky's Shootout
#2 Austin Powers
#3 Avatar
#4 Striker Xtreme
#5 Rolling Stones

Get'em before they get hot and the prices skyrocket! $10,000 by Christmas! (all 5 combined, of course).

Scott

Absolutely agree!

My love for AC/DC is well known, but the way the cannon blocks the right lanes sucks. Hard. By far my biggest complaint about the pin.

The hammer on MET supposedly blocking the view up the middle is a complete non-issue by comparison.

Mark me down as a believer. Played this MET in Chicago for 4 hours straight. Cannot wait to play it Again! It remains to be seen whether it will still be a favorite several months from now. My enthusiasm for Tron is fading fast and I thought that was number 1 for a while.