Quoted from Aurich:What you just described isn't "shook Sparky over and over, rinse and repeat" though. Which is what I was disagreeing with. It's hardly that one dimensional now.
Shoot sparky over and over ... And good things happen
rd.
Quoted from Aurich:What you just described isn't "shook Sparky over and over, rinse and repeat" though. Which is what I was disagreeing with. It's hardly that one dimensional now.
Shoot sparky over and over ... And good things happen
rd.
Quoted from Aurich:Whoever is playing doesn't understand even the first thing about this game then, and will get their ass handed to them by someone who does.
You talk shit about other people's strategies, yet you won't share yours. You should stick to the art and bling threads.
Quoted from Aurich:After 1.5? I don't agree, that magnet is way more wild than it used to be. I don't consider Sparky a "safe" shot now.
What's a safer shot than Sparky in terms of setting yourself up to score decent points on a MET that is set up very hard (Pinburg style)?
Quoted from phishrace:You talk shit about other people's strategies, yet you won't share yours. You should stick to the art and bling threads.
No, I give my opinions, something forums are meant for. You can be as ass about it, but it won't motivate me to respond to you, because I find your attitude off putting. You like to throw around the words "talk shit" a lot, try not to take people having opinions feel so offensive.
If shooting Sparky over and over, rinse and repeat, is how you want to play and is fun, then enjoy.
Quoted from Aurich:No, I give my opinions, something forums are meant for. You can be as ass about it, but it won't motivate me to respond to you, because I find your attitude off putting. You like to throw around the words "talk shit" a lot, try not to take people having opinions feel so offensive.
If shooting Sparky over and over, rinse and repeat, is how you want to play and is fun, then enjoy.
I don't know if it's fun or not ... But it's definitely the best (and most consistent) way to play the game.
Agree with you re the aggressive attitude of the other poster, that's not required here.
rd.
Yeah I kinda thought we were kinda talking about scoring strategy in a tournament / competitive setting. It's not fun for everyday play but it gets the job done. I stand by my earlier comments.
Fade To Black Crank it up...i made 65.000.000 today what a rush,playfield was really dark,i love the Crank it Up
modes,so awarding when you shoot at the right stuff!
Quoted from pinchamp:Why is it only people that down own the game seem to have these problems... Haha. Like seriously. I have an early edition MOPLE (#46) and I have no issues. Haven't even turned on WOZLE since getting Metallica. The game really rocks.
What the hell is a MOPLE??
Quoted from Aurich:If shooting Sparky over and over, rinse and repeat, is how you want to play and is fun, then enjoy.
You do realize that the discussion is involving tournament play, right?
Quoted from RobT:You do realize that the discussion is involving tournament play, right?
aka the "suck the fun out of every game brigade", so I'll just stay out of the conversation. File me under "shit talker" if it helps.
Quoted from Aurich:aka the "suck the fun out of every game brigade", so I'll just stay out of the conversation. File me under "shit talker" if it helps.
Edit: never mind.
Quoted from Aurich:...so I'll just stay out of the conversation.
That's what you should've done in the first place. Instead, you insulted every player at Pinburgh and now want to bow out of the conversation. Real classy.
Quoted from Rick471:What the hell is a MOLPE??
I dont know what MOLPE is but MOPLE is Master of Puppets Limited Edition. Or is that just something I made up myself? I was sure that was the acronym for it...
Quoted from pinchamp:I dont know what MOLPE is but MOPLE is Master of Puppets Limited Edition. Or is that just something I made up myself? I was sure that was the acronym for it...
It's the eternal battle between 2 camps. Those who feel it should be MOPLE and those in the second camp.who feel it should be METLE. I am firmly on the METLE camp lol. To call in MOPLE infers that there are limited editions of Master of puppets pinball and of course, there are not. There are however limited editions of the Metallic pinball, thus METLE!
Quoted from Roostking:It's the eternal battle between 2 camps. Those who feel it should be MOPLE and those in the second camp.who feel it should be METLE. I am firmly on the METLE camp lol. To call in MOPLE infers that there are not limited editions of Master of puppets and of course, there are not. There are however limited editions of the Metallic pinball, thus METLE!
Oh I see... METLE is the Master of Puppets Limited Edition machine? There is no other Limited Edition? For some reason I thought there was another Limited Edition as well? Hard to keep up with Stern and all of the editions. I suppose it makes sense as long as it is the only Limited Edition. Here all along I thought there were 2 different LE games MOPLE and METLE. I get it now. I am fine with METLE being the one, and only.
Quoted from SteveP3:Yeah I kinda thought we were kinda talking about scoring strategy in a tournament / competitive setting. It's not fun for everyday play but it gets the job done. I stand by my earlier comments.
Sorry but I have to chime in on this too. There is consistent and there is kick ass and beat everyone else. To do that you must employ a much better strategy. Can you do this by just hitting sparky for an entire game? My strategy is to only use sparky to complete my CIU inserts. Snake or Graveyard have to be done first as those are the hardest CIU to complete. Master the graveyard backhand and you are much closer to mastering the game IMO.
Actually this just gave me an excuse to post my score again - my apologies but I am just so damn proud of it !!
Quoted from pinchamp:Sorry but I have to chime in on this too. There is consistent and there is kick ass and beat everyone else. To do that you must employ a much better strategy. Can you do this by just hitting sparky for an entire game? My strategy is to only use sparky to complete my CIU inserts. Snake or Graveyard have to be done first as those are the hardest CIU to complete. Master the graveyard backhand and you are much closer to mastering the game IMO.
Actually this just gave me an excuse to post my score again - my apologies but I am just so damn proud of it !!image.jpg 107 KB
Pretty crappy score
Quoted from Roostking:That is correct and welcome to the METLE camp lol. #199 here.
Awesome! I am on board with METLE. Hey can you help me out quick when u get a chance? Run a switch test on your METLE and push the bottom jaw of the snake it. Does it shut the switch off when pushed in and turn switch back on when it pops out? Mine is acting funny and switch always seems on so machine things I am hitting the jaw when I am not.
Quoted from pinchamp:Awesome! I am on board with METLE. Hey can you help me out quick when u get a chance? Run a switch test on your METLE and push the bottom jaw of the snake it. Does it shut the switch off when pushed in and turn switch back on when it pops out? Mine is acting funny and switch always seems on so machine things I am hitting the jaw when I am not.
Man sorry o would if Icould, but I just got to Tampa for the week on business.
Quoted from pinchamp:Sorry but I have to chime in on this too. There is consistent and there is kick ass and beat everyone else. To do that you must employ a much better strategy. Can you do this by just hitting sparky for an entire game?
Certainly, you're entitled to chime in! I just wonder if you can walk up to the game every time and get that kind of score playing the game the way you did to get that score? Outlanes wide open, ball savers reduced greatly or turned off, etc? I'd be nervous to play the way I normally play in a serious tourney since I can't consistently rack up huge scores just 'having fun'. A few tourney guys just roll the dice and give 'er, but I notice you often see them playing pretty conservatively.
Love the game, the updates have put the game over the top! Thanks Stern for adding the finishing touch. AAA+++
Quoted from 2RustyBalls:Love the game, the updates have put the game over the top! Thanks Stern for adding the finishing touch. AAA+++
Few more finishing touches to come which will put this game right up there.
Now number 18 on the charts.........
If you want a first-hand account of a match on Metallica at Pinburgh, here's mine:
Game set up steep, as mentioned, factory settings AFAIK, outlanes more difficult than what I had seen before. Going into ball 3 as last player, I was looking at a score of 40M (couple of Sparky's I believe), 2 scores around 19M (1 Sparky each), and I had about 2M after an attempt at Grave on ball 1 and a mishandled sketchy mystery kickout from a super skill shot on ball 2.
I pounded on Sparky several times, started the mb, instantly hit the one pick target I needed, loaded the snake for 2x and add-a-ball, and hit sparky as quick as possible to get the double super within the 20s. After the dust settled I had 30M and some decent SAD progress, so I started working on that and eventually got a pop-sling drain to take 2nd, which I was more than happy with given how my game was going.
For those not familiar, Pinburgh is all about going up to a game completely cold that you in all likelihood haven't played before (that exact machine). It's a 4-player game, and your goal is to beat the other 4 players. That's it. It's not about getting to wizard modes and blowing it up spectacularly (although it's great when that happens), that's usually in qualifications of qualify-for-finals events on a machine you can play repeatedly. Walking up to a machine you have never played (again, talking specific machine, not model) involves assessing risk/reward and the likelihood of making certain shots you have never made before. Obviously model familiarity will help you here, but everyone here must know by now how different individual machines can be.
I think you can agree this is a far different scenario than walking up to your machine you have sitting in your nice comfortable home that you've probably played hundreds of times before over the past several months and having a particularly good game.
None of this is a knock against Metallica, it's the realities of specific tournament situations. I certainly didn't go into my game expecting to Sparky out, but when my back was against the wall, I had to figure out the best way to score the most points as quickly as possible to defeat as many opponents as possible. That's all anyone was trying to do all weekend on every one of the 40+ machines they played 4-player matches on.
There's no doubt that the way to play a one and done game in a tourney is different than the way a game is played at home in a "let's see what this baby can do" environment or even a case where multiple qualifying attempts are allowed which gives the player a chance to explore scoring opportunities in an effort to qualify higher.
In watching those playing Metallica on papatv, yes the strategy was go to Sparky ASAP and use the ball saver to hit the 4 picks, collect the shot at the snake, add a ball, then make progress toward other deeper goals like CIU and SAD. When the player is simply concerned with relative scores to other players in the group, decisions are not necessarily those made at home in an effort to get a board score and post the picture on pinside.
Quoted from Aurich:I bow to Keefer's experience.
I wish you could have seen the common sense in the other posters' opinions. But it's good to have confirmation that we're not crazy for thinking the way we do
edit : it's not like I just played it once and walked away and just randomly threw that strategy out there, it's been sitting in my living room since May of last year
Quoted from SteveP3:I wish you could have seen the common sense in the other posters' opinions. But it's good to have confirmation that we're not crazy for thinking the way we do
edit : it's not like I just played it once and walked away and just randomly threw that strategy out there, it's been sitting in my living room since May of last year
I don't really want to beat this horse any longer, but none of what anyone else is describing (including you and Keefer ) is what I was originally objecting to. I'm not a tournament player, or a Metallica expert, I was simply disagreeing with the characterization of the game being that shallow and pointless. It's really not a big deal, I'll say I'm wrong and we can leave it at that.
Quoted from Aurich:I don't really want to beat this horse any longer, but none of what anyone else is describing (including you and Keefer ) is what I was originally objecting to. I'm not a tournament player, or a Metallica expert, I was simply disagreeing with the characterization of the game being that shallow and pointless. It's really not a big deal, I'll say I'm wrong and we can leave it at that.
I understood what you were saying. Tourney players will make games look very shallow cause they will pick the safest way to score points and exploit that as long as possible. Tutorials are usually much more fun to watch as opposed to tourney coverage since you will see more of the games features in those.
Quoted from Aurich:I bow to Keefer's experience.
You mean you aren't going to accuse him of being part of the "suck the fun out of every game brigade" since he is a tourney player (like you did in your prior post)?
Man, Im clueless. So when Keith is talking about the number of sparkys, it keeps track of how many you fried? And Fried is collecting a SJP? Man I suck. Is there an updated complete rule sheet for 1.51 or are "they" waiting for band modes? Hopefully they are a complete ripoff of SnD. I would consider this a top 10 game. Love it..
Quoted from Duff:Man, Im clueless. So when Keith is talking about the number of sparkys, it keeps track of how many you fried? And Fried is collecting a SJP? Man I suck. Is there an updated complete rule sheet for 1.51 or are "they" waiting for band modes? Hopefully they are a complete ripoff of SnD. I would consider this a top 10 game. Love it..
I believe Keith was saying that one player had been to spark MB twice and the other 2 had been there once before his last ball.
Quoted from SteveP3:Certainly, you're entitled to chime in! I just wonder if you can walk up to the game every time and get that kind of score playing the game the way you did to get that score? Outlanes wide open, ball savers reduced greatly or turned off, etc? I'd be nervous to play the way I normally play in a serious tourney since I can't consistently rack up huge scores just 'having fun'. A few tourney guys just roll the dice and give 'er, but I notice you often see them playing pretty conservatively.
Agreed. Playing at home for all time high score and consistently playing just to get a good snuff score to best others are 2 different things. I consistently get over 100,000,000 every game - one CIU gets me over 50% there and I always get a CIU now. I don't know where that would put me in a tourney as I don't play tourneys. How much more consistent would I be just going for Sparky multiball I don't know but I do find Sparky kicks my ass SDTM more than any other shot so hard to say.
Quoted from pinchamp:I consistently get over 100,000,000 every game - one CIU gets me over 50% there and I always get a CIU now. I don't know where that would put me in a tourney as I don't play tourneys.
If you are getting over 100mil every game on factory with 6.5 degrees slope and medium tilt, then you should play in tourneys.
We saw your 800 mil score, so we know you can play, but it's pinball and the nature of the game prevents 100% consistency.
I strongly suspect that none of the top players in the world would make a claim of scoring over 100mil on Metallica every game. To even claim they could do it 5 times in a row on factory settings medium tilt and 6.5 degrees is a risky statement. Pinball is not a game of pure skill, so eventually the game will have a say in what is happening.
That is not to say you are not scoring 100MIL often, but "every game" is going to raise the eyebrows of those with Missouri blood.
Quoted from pinballcorpse:If you are getting over 100mil every game on factory with 6.5 degrees slope and medium tilt, then you should play in tourneys.
We saw your 800 mil score, so we know you can play, but it's pinball and the nature of the game prevents 100% consistency.
I strongly suspect that none of the top players in the world would make a claim of scoring over 100mil on Metallica every game. To even claim they could do it 5 times in a row on factory settings medium tilt and 6.5 degrees is a risky statement. Pinball is not a game of pure skill, so eventually the game will have a say in what is happening.
That is not to say you are not scoring 100MIL often, but "every game" is going to raise the eyebrows of those with Missouri blood.
Sorry I should not have had omitted the word "every game" in there. I do,score over 100mil consistently. But that would mean 1/5 games or so. I will play 5 games tonight and let you know how many I get 100mil on so I can justify my statement one way or the other
Quoted from pinchamp:Sorry I should not have had omitted the word "every game" in there. I do,score over 100mil consistently. But that would mean 1/5 games or so. I will play 5 games tonight and let you know how many I get 100mil on so I can justify my statement one way or the other
Thanks for the clarification.
As I said, you obviously have skills-you could not stumble into 800 mil. But claiming 100mil every game was an attention getter.
Look forward to your statistics.
As a pinball and math lover, this part of the thread piqued my curiosity and raises an interesting hypothetical question to those with access to Metallica:
What would be the highest repetitive level score, say playing 10 straight games, someone would be willing to claim playing Metallica? I would assume the number is pretty low, maybe not even 20 MIL.
Assuming it is 20 MIL, to validate the claim, a player must make a minimum of 20 MIL ten times in a row. Not an average score of 20 MIL over ten games, but a minimum score of 20 MIL ten times in a row. The first game out of 10 that is not 20 MIL would nullify the claim regardless of how high any other scores are.
If people wanted to run a trial test, then play 10 games of Metallica. Whatever their lowest score was in 10 games, that would be an indicator of what they could claim they could do any time they stepped up to the game. Use that as your indicator and play another 10 games and see if it was accurate. If desired, you can say the low game was a fluke, and pick a higher number for your claim and try to back it up by proving it to yourself with another 10 game run.
Be interesting if people try this at home, with no restarts, do overs, coin door ball saver cheats, etc. It is something different to do.
Quoted from RobT:You mean you aren't going to accuse him of being part of the "suck the fun out of every game brigade" since he is a tourney player (like you did in your prior post)?
Nah, he gets a pass for injecting so much fun into pinball in the first place.
Quoted from Aurich:Nah, he gets a pass for injecting so much fun into pinball in the first place.
But he sucks it right back out when he plays in a tourney!
I just used the "Sparky" technique to get 270m on my "set up for comps" MetLE (3 balls)
Had a 55m SAD and a 59m CIU (the sparky one) and a good Fuel all running on ball 3
I think after ball 2 I had 20m so that's a pretty good ball.
FWIW I checked the average score on my machine, it said 140 games (since last update obviously) and average score 60m. Which is way high. Obviously it must not count the games where you restart after 2 house balls cause if it did I'm sure my average would be well under 20m. Also, only one game over 15 minutes too, most were 5-10 minute range, I think the ball average was 1.49 or something.
rd.
Quoted from RobT:But he sucks it right back out when he plays in a tourney!
You gotta admit, there was always something kinda suspect about a guy who would build in a rule that required you to make the same shot 26 times.
Quoted from RobT:But he sucks it right back out when he plays in a tourney!
Actually, I find that games by Keefer and Lyman are more fun to play in tournaments, because those guys don't want to be bored when they're playing in tournaments. They also (tend) to have better scoring balance between the various things in the game, so there are meaningful decisions to be made about where the low-hanging fruit is.
Quoted from Excalabur:Actually, I find that games by Keefer and Lyman are more fun to play in tournaments, because those guys don't want to be bored when they're playing in tournaments. They also (tend) to have better scoring balance between the various things in the game, so there are meaningful decisions to be made about where the low-hanging fruit is.
Agreed!
Quoted from Excalabur:Actually, I find that games by Keefer and Lyman are more fun to play in tournaments, because those guys don't want to be bored when they're playing in tournaments. They also (tend) to have better scoring balance between the various things in the game, so there are meaningful decisions to be made about where the low-hanging fruit is.
All my joking about tournament players aside (I actually enjoy watching the PAPA TV tournaments broadcasts regularly) I agree with this 100%. There's a reason these guys are tops, and being tournament players is IMHO part of it. They really get how people play on a lot of different levels, and how to balance it.
Keefer is obviously known for his deep games, and Lyman talks about how he wants games to always have multiple paths, instead of One True Way™ to play.
Quoted from RobT:You mean you aren't going to accuse him of being part of the "suck the fun out of every game brigade" since he is a tourney player (like you did in your prior post)?
Tournament players take things VERY seriously. There's stress. There's anger. It's heavy stuff. I understand it, it's a competition...but the mindset of these players is VASTLY different for a lot of us who play "for fun". It's interesting when the opinions of "fun" players and "tournament" players collide. Tournament players are convinced their approach to a game is everyone's approach....they'll unequivocally say "this game sucks because you can just hit this ramp over and over forever" as though that truly is the ONLY function of that game - not realizing that outside a tournament, no one would play the game that way - and the game's modes, story progression, lights, sounds and even just the feeling of shots are what make games fun for most people.
I met Josh Sharpe for the first time at the Hollywood Park Show/Tournament - I think this was the first super hardcore tournament I'd ever witnessed and the first time I played games that were set up so brutally. I asked Josh, "do you play pinball for fun anymore?" He bluntly answered "No" lol ....it's all about the strategy of finding the game's points exploits.
People keep telling me I should play in tournaments....but I don't want pinball to ever be not fun. I see that stress & anger ...I don't want to emotionally go there when enjoying my nerdy hobby. Also - logically - there are people who've been playing in Tournaments for 20 years....I will never win, so - why get crushed like that? Things are good in Funtown!
Quoted from Rarehero:Tournament players take things VERY seriously. There's stress. There's anger. It's heavy stuff. I understand it, it's a competition...but the mindset of these players is VASTLY different for a lot of us who play "for fun". It's interesting when the opinions of "fun" players and "tournament" players collide. Tournament players are convinced their approach to a game is everyone's approach....they'll unequivocally say "this game sucks because you can just hit this ramp over and over forever" as though that truly is the ONLY function of that game - not realizing that outside a tournament, no one would play the game that way - and the game's modes, story progression, lights, sounds and even just the feeling of shots are what make games fun for most people.
I met Josh Sharpe for the first time at the Hollywood Park Show/Tournament - I think this was the first super hardcore tournament I'd ever witnessed and the first time I played games that were set up so brutally. I asked Josh, "do you play pinball for fun anymore?" He bluntly answered "No" lol ....it's all about the strategy of finding the game's points exploits.
People keep telling me I should play in tournaments....but I don't want pinball to ever be not fun. I see that stress & anger ...I don't want to emotionally go there when enjoying my nerdy hobby. Also - logically - there are people who've been playing in Tournaments for 20 years....I will never win, so - why get crushed like that? Things are good in Funtown!
Yep. People bag on JM because of the spinner exploit and that is what the tourney or points players go for. I play for fun, meaning I go for power down and playing through the game. Tourney players just bash the MM castle all day too...playing for fun means going for all the other stuff. I don't care about score when I play a game. I just want to see cool shit and have fun.
Quoted from Rarehero:Tournament players take things VERY seriously. There's stress. There's anger. It's heavy stuff. I understand it, it's a competition...but the mindset of these players is VASTLY different for a lot of us who play "for fun". It's interesting when the opinions of "fun" players and "tournament" players collide. Tournament players are convinced their approach to a game is everyone's approach....they'll unequivocally say "this game sucks because you can just hit this ramp over and over forever" as though that truly is the ONLY function of that game - not realizing that outside a tournament, no one would play the game that way - and the game's modes, story progression, lights, sounds and even just the feeling of shots are what make games fun for most people.
I met Josh Sharpe for the first time at the Hollywood Park Show/Tournament - I think this was the first super hardcore tournament I'd ever witnessed and the first time I played games that were set up so brutally. I asked Josh, "do you play pinball for fun anymore?" He bluntly answered "No" lol ....it's all about the strategy of finding the game's points exploits.
People keep telling me I should play in tournaments....but I don't want pinball to ever be not fun. I see that stress & anger ...I don't want to emotionally go there when enjoying my nerdy hobby. Also - logically - there are people who've been playing in Tournaments for 20 years....I will never win, so - why get crushed like that? Things are good in Funtown!
What are you talking about? You played in a tournament at Robert's house! If I recall correctly, you even had FUN doing it!
Quoted from RobT:What are you talking about? You played in a tournament at Robert's house! If I recall correctly, you even had FUN doing it!
Well, that was a "casual" tournament at a friend's house....but actually I found it pretty stressful - I play better and have more fun when there are no stakes. When people are watching I flub and feel bad about it. The only thing that made me feel better was that Robert gave me a cool prize for losing lol
Quoted from Rarehero:Tournament players take things VERY seriously. There's stress. There's anger. It's heavy stuff. I understand it, it's a competition...but the mindset of these players is VASTLY different for a lot of us who play "for fun". It's interesting when the opinions of "fun" players and "tournament" players collide. Tournament players are convinced their approach to a game is everyone's approach....they'll unequivocally say "this game sucks because you can just hit this ramp over and over forever" as though that truly is the ONLY function of that game - not realizing that outside a tournament, no one would play the game that way - and the game's modes, story progression, lights, sounds and even just the feeling of shots are what make games fun for most people.
I met Josh Sharpe for the first time at the Hollywood Park Show/Tournament - I think this was the first super hardcore tournament I'd ever witnessed and the first time I played games that were set up so brutally. I asked Josh, "do you play pinball for fun anymore?" He bluntly answered "No" lol ....it's all about the strategy of finding the game's points exploits.
People keep telling me I should play in tournaments....but I don't want pinball to ever be not fun. I see that stress & anger ...I don't want to emotionally go there when enjoying my nerdy hobby. Also - logically - there are people who've been playing in Tournaments for 20 years....I will never win, so - why get crushed like that? Things are good in Funtown!
Wow...it's like you can read my mind with most of what you wrote here! I never play for points...it's all about the progression of the game and the feel of the shots to me. I will happily hit a satisfying ramp shot over and over because it feels good even if it doesn't score big points. I have some friends who can't understand this. Many people do not understand why I don't play at the tournaments...it just takes the fun out of it for me. I did get "roped into" our local league, but I did that more to be able to hang out with the guys on a regular basis than to actually compete. I respect the tourney guys that can score the big points and do it so consistantly, but that's just not my thing. It's great how this hobby offers so many aspects that different people love it for. Some just like playing, some like the competition, some the tinkering and restoration, some just enjoy it as art. So many facets to the same hobby.
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