(Topic ID: 210020)

Is JJP pricing itself out of business

By JY64

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Who-Dey
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There are 396 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 8.
#301 3 years ago

The reason I buy games are primarily because of the designer and code

Lyman and Keith are bank. Only pins I will ever buy now at release

For me the JJP hype train is back on track with Potc. Years of not desiring TH or DI had left me a bit cranky

There is a reason why Potc is so well received, the THEME has much more mass appeal, hence more sales, and Eric has done a fantastic job engineering an awesome layout

In today’s pinball world, at these prices, you have to check ALL the boxes

I have no desire to own a Toy Story but MUCH better theme than TH or DI so it’s possible

Why i would be interested in Willy Wonka? Partly because I have a blast playing the hugely successful slot machines along with my wife

If JJP ever gets Bond or Harry Potter or some other blockbuster current adult theme they could break some sales records!

It matters when you only do one a year versus 3 or 4

10
#302 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It’s amazing to me that anyone routes games anymore with that pitiful ROI
On the other hand, if you owned the barcade and made 100% of the profits?
How many CEs do you still have unspoken for Kingpin? Since I have one through I’m curious how well they are hanging in there

less than 20% of my original order of CE are unspoken for. Once people get a chance to see and play PotC at upcoming shows, I think they will be gone quickly. I haven't advertised it because I don't feel the need to.

The game speaks for itself. Besides that, how many JJP distributors are already advertising here? I have been putting my attention into getting new people into pinball. I recently did a booth (10x20) at a home remodel show here in Madison, WI and was amazes in how many people we so excited to see pinballs again. I had multiple people tell me that i had the best booth at the show. While I love pinside (and I do) there is no sense in all the distributors fighting over the same fish (you guys are fish in case you didn't know

Hope to see many of you over the course of the next couple months. I will for sure be at TPF and MGC. Still up in the air about RMPS.

#303 3 years ago

Had zero interest in POTC but watching that video, I couldn't help be impressed by the engineering and coding. Want to try it now.

Also hope it's true JJP have the license for GnR.

#304 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

JJP was pricing itself out of business when they sold WOZ for $6500.
I think what a lot of us forget is that if you can afford a 6k toy, you can afford an 8k toy. We live in a country where 50% of the population can't cover a $500 unexpected expense.

QFT

Pipebomb

#305 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I think what a lot of us forget is that if you can afford a 6k toy, you can afford an 8k toy

This is a good point.

#306 3 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Once I have two, I can always fund another by selling one. In that way, I’m only paying $1,000-2,000 in incremental costs, which for me would be affordable.

Sounds a little like "I never noticed gas prices are increasing, since I always get $25 worth of fuel"

#307 3 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Once I have two, I can always fund another by selling one. In that way, I’m only paying $1,000-2,000 in incremental costs, which for me would be affordable.

Affordable, sure, but worth it? If I own a machine for a year and only really get 250 worthwhile plays (i.e. not including maintenance and wasted starts) out of it before selling and I have $2K in trade-up costs, then each game costs me $8. Daily cost is $5.50 ($166 monthly) - even if you don't play it. On location, each game would cost these days what, $1?

#308 3 years ago
Quoted from Pathfinder:

each game would cost these days what, $1?

Not counting beer...

#309 3 years ago

JJP creates high end pinball machines that are very well made. Are they expensive?? Yes. Are they marketed to the causal fan/collectors? No. They know their market and don’t cut corners. Every JJP machine I’ve played looks and plays amazing. It’s a premium experience

#310 3 years ago
Quoted from Pathfinder:

Affordable, sure, but worth it? If I own a machine for a year and only really get 250 worthwhile plays (i.e. not including maintenance and wasted starts) out of it before selling and I have $2K in trade-up costs, then each game costs me $8. Daily cost is $5.50 ($166 monthly) - even if you don't play it. On location, each game would cost these days what, $1?

With those play numbers, NIB games didn't make financial sense at $4k either. So either you get some other benefit from owning games (like convenience and cheap beer costs) or you should save your quarters and play on location instead!

#311 3 years ago

I'm jonesing hard for a new game and DI is on my radar. Can afford DI, but having hard time justifying the price.

#312 3 years ago
Quoted from gliebig:

I'm jonesing hard for a new game and DI is on my radar. Can afford DI, but having hard time justifying the price.

If you have to justify the price, you can't really afford it. Every penny is in the machine. No corners cut. Just ignore the idiotic headphone jack placement at your knees.

10
#313 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

If you have to justify the price, you can't really afford it. Every penny is in the machine. No corners cut. Just ignore the idiotic headphone jack placement at your knees.

Uh, wrong. I can easily afford it. I just don't know if it's worth it. ok, champ.

#314 3 years ago
Quoted from gliebig:

Uh, wrong. I can easily afford it. I just don't know if it's worth it. ok, champ.

Get a huo used one for around 7500-8....

#315 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Get a huo used one for around 7500-8....

Most likely what I will do. You selling yours? I'll swing by Saturday with $$.

#316 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Get a huo used one for around 7500-8....

Good luck with that. There is literally ONE for sale around here, and it ain't going for 8...

#317 3 years ago
Quoted from gliebig:

Uh, wrong. I can easily afford it. I just don't know if it's worth it. ok, champ.

Geez, man, I think he meant "it's worth it"; if you look at the machine you can see where every penny went. This isn't a wallet-waving contest

#318 3 years ago
Quoted from gliebig:

Most likely what I will do. You selling yours? I'll swing by Saturday with $$.

Lol i am not ... live jjp games and eventually its all i will own

#319 3 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Good luck with that. There is literally ONE for sale around here, and it ain't going for 8...

There have been a few for around 8k... stll alot but better than 9k lol

#320 3 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Good luck with that. There is literally ONE for sale around here, and it ain't going for 8...

We'll have an LE up for 7800 soon.

#321 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

If you have to justify the price, you can't really afford it. Every penny is in the machine. No corners cut.

Some of the corners around the scoops have been cutting Clear Coat actually.

#322 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Some of the corners around the scoops have been cutting Clear Coat actually.

Not with the real Cliffies they're shipping with now, they haven't.

#323 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Not with the real Cliffies they're shipping with now, they haven't.

So are they going to reimburse us for the Cliffy's we had to buy?

#324 3 years ago

Vireland, what's your opinion on cliffies and what do you think about the placement of the headphone jack?

#325 3 years ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

Vireland, what's your opinion on cliffies and what do you think about the placement of the headphone jack?

Hold on a sec, I'll make a graph...

#326 3 years ago
Quoted from Pathfinder:

Affordable, sure, but worth it? If I own a machine for a year and only really get 250 worthwhile plays (i.e. not including maintenance and wasted starts) out of it before selling and I have $2K in trade-up costs, then each game costs me $8. Daily cost is $5.50 ($166 monthly) - even if you don't play it. On location, each game would cost these days what, $1?

I don't agree with this way of looking at things.

Quoted from fosaisu:

With those play numbers, NIB games didn't make financial sense at $4k either. So either you get some other benefit from owning games (like convenience and cheap beer costs) or you should save your quarters and play on location instead!

I agree with this.

If you look at pins from a purely monetary perspective in terms of whether you are saving money over playing on location, no pin would be worth it. I play my pins a lot, and still probably only have about 2,000 plays on each of the newer ones (WOZ and Star Trek). There's no way I would break even over playing on location. The purpose of buying a pin is not to break even or save money, it is to have the convenience and pleasure of having one in your home, well maintained, and available to play whenever the moment strikes. It is to be able to have friends over and play with them (and see some salivate at your collection ). It is to fully get to know a pin and understand the rules. We pay for these benefits. All I was saying is that the incremental cost of selling one pin and buying another is affordable to me, and I'm willing to do it from time to time to get a fresh experience with a new pin. I'm not happy that prices are so high, but once I'm bought in, I'm largely bought in.

#327 3 years ago

When you price it the way they do, you need to have "complexity" and "longevity", not "simplicity" as some would say.

You can't get tired of a $10k game in a hurry.

And as far as "location pinball" goes. The deeper it is, the more quarters you drop into the pin to get there.

Pay more, get more, that simple.

The kiddie school one time location players don't matter.

#328 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Just ignore the idiotic headphone jack placement at your knees.

You really hate that. May I ask why? I think it's just fine there.

#329 3 years ago
Quoted from JWJr:

You really hate that. May I ask why? I think it's just fine there.

Because unless you have monkey arms, it's out of easy reach, especially compared to the WoZ/Hobbit placement right in the coin door. Also, on location it's TERRIBLE because it's the perfect height for little kids that like to play with buttons or jam whatever food or snot they have in convenient holes. It's a solution for a problem that didn't exist and is objectively less player friendly than the coin door placement they had.

But really, in 2018 why do we have physical jacks at all? Why not Bluetooth headphone connections?

#330 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Because unless you have monkey arms, it's out of easy reach, especially compared to the WoZ/Hobbit placement right in the coin door. Also, on location it's TERRIBLE because it's the perfect height for little kids that like to play with buttons or jam whatever food or snot they have in convenient holes. It's a solution for a problem that didn't exist and is objectively less player friendly than the coin door placement they had.
But really, in 2018 why do we have physical jacks at all? Why not Bluetooth headphone connections?

Solution: Get the standard edition

#331 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

But really, in 2018 why do we have physical jacks at all? Why not Bluetooth headphone connections?

We just don't have the courage.

#332 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Because unless you have monkey arms, it's out of easy reach, especially compared to the WoZ/Hobbit placement right in the coin door. Also, on location it's TERRIBLE because it's the perfect height for little kids that like to play with buttons or jam whatever food or snot they have in convenient holes. It's a solution for a problem that didn't exist and is objectively less player friendly than the coin door placement they had.
But really, in 2018 why do we have physical jacks at all? Why not Bluetooth headphone connections?

Thanks for the explanation; as a home owner, I really hadn't considered the location operation aspects. And, I _do_ have what my wife refers to as cartoonishly long arms.

#333 3 years ago

I have owned a number of different pins over the past 30 years and JJP makes the best I have seen. But, Chicago Gaming is a close second. If you consider the totality of JJP's product (game build, design, customer support, and associated products like the best manuals in the industry), I believe that JJP is fairly priced when compared to other manufacturers. Do I wish JJP's prices were lower? of course I do. I also think that they are really starting to gouge on the pricing of their LE's and CE's. I mean, the LE's and CE's are not that much different to justify the pricing differentials. But, all manufacturers are doing the same thing and charging whatever the market will bear. And, it is a 'hot market'. It is a given that other companies such Stern make some fun games but their products just are not up to the 'mark' of JPP and CGC. I think Stern, for example, needs to really improve its products and become competitive on both a product quality and price level. I really hoped they do and can exert some competition back into the pinball market place. Until they do, however, my "next pin" will be either a MBR or POTC. Admittedly, it will tough to absorb the price shock that will undoubtedly accompany that purchase. I try to rationalize my pinball purchases by telling myself that I buy my games as 'keepers' and so I am willing to invest a bit more to ensure that I will be getting a quality product. So far that is working but who knows for how much longer?

#334 3 years ago
Quoted from JayLar:

Solution: Get the standard edition

The value-add extras of the LE make that impossible with JJP. They have the most fairly-priced LEs out there with actual things you want.

#335 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

It's a solution for a problem that didn't exist and is objectively less player friendly than the coin door placement they had

It's a solution to the problem of the custom coin door costing 10x as much as a stock one, and also it prevented the use of a bill acceptor. It's in the lower left side of the cabinet because that's the only place it wasn't in the way of something else.

I mean, I've mentioned this to you multiple times and you just refuse to see that there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for why the headphone jack is where it is. You're like a dog with a bone on that one.

#336 3 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

It's a solution to the problem of the custom coin door costing 10x as much as a stock one, and also it prevented the use of a bill acceptor. It's in the lower left side of the cabinet because that's the only place it wasn't in the way of something else.
I mean, I've mentioned this to you multiple times and you just refuse to see that there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for why the headphone jack is where it is. You're like a dog with a bone on that one.

There is NO WAY, none, ZERO - that coin door cost 10x more with the headphone jack cut out of it. Total BS. If they got that quote it's time to cut that supplier loose. I've done a lot of manufacturing in China, and that just didn't happen in any reasonable scenario. A coin door from China is something like $40 (no idea what their quantities are, but it could be even less if they order a lot and warehouse it). You're saying that adding a jack cutout (we're not talking about the electronics, that's needed regardless of where the jack is placed) makes it $400? No. Nu-uh. If the cost of the jack placement coming in at 10x as much is the reason they ditched it, they need to get a new supply chain manager, they've failed at their job.

And the new cabinet jack placement objectively sucks for user convenience and on location with terrible kids that it's the perfect height for.

#337 3 years ago

Low volume, and it's more custom than just the headphone cutout. But hey, you know better than them, clearly. I look forward to your new coin door design that costs the same as a regular door.

#338 3 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Low volume, and it's more custom than just the headphone cutout. But hey, you know better than them, clearly. I look forward to your new coin door design that costs the same as a regular door.

Even 1000 isn't THAT low volume, and given that Hobbit and WoZ are still using the better headphone placement in the door, they're clearly still buying them. Plus, the kicker is that they sold and are still selling those machines for LESS money with the "10x more expensive coin doors." Plus, Jack indicated in direct conversation I had with him last year that the headphone placement was what Pat wanted when I asked WHY it was moved to that god-awful placement. His response to my question about why Pat moved it - he simply shrugged (then I think he said something about Pat getting what he wants, but I'm not 100% sure on that part of the conversation, it was almost a year ago). From the horse's mouth, so cost was not the issue - it was Pat's design CHOICE.

And if cost were the issue (it's not - debunked above) for the coin door, then it SHOULD be a simple cutout for the headphone jack plate in the coin door instead of all those tiny holes drilled in the door for the lights, etc. Then that plate can be assembled in a separate universal process that works across all their machines. Plug that preassembled plate into the coin door receptacle above the lock and viola!

#339 3 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Low volume, and it's more custom than just the headphone cutout. But hey, you know better than them, clearly. I look forward to your new coin door design that costs the same as a regular door.

Hey, sure, I'll freelance design and manufacturing setup with my Chinese peeps for JJP, but I'm not doing it for free. And besides, JJP has an engineering team, so why is that even NECESSARY?

#340 3 years ago

Call it what you want but 2500 of a pinball machine isn’t “limited”

Neither is 1000 or 500 for that matter

Calling my Afmrle limited is ridiculous, along with my Wozecle

#341 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Call it what you want but 2500 of a pinball machine isn’t “limited”
Neither is 1000 or 500 for that matter
Calling my Afmrle limited is ridiculous, along with my Wozecle

I call it the truth ! ridiculous

#342 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Call it what you want but 2500 of a pinball machine isn’t “limited”
Neither is 1000 or 500 for that matter
Calling my Afmrle limited is ridiculous, along with my Wozecle

This guy gets it.

bd5f117a77113f12799f5fbe24b064a5 (resized).jpg

#343 3 years ago

I hope a toy story le is not 10k, my son is excited for it next year.....that kind of money i am out...i have a woz and di...time will tell

#344 3 years ago

Does anyone know what the topper on the POTC CE is going to look like? I'd really like to talk myself into one, but it is so much more expensive than a regular edition. Is the topper really worth 3K extra?

#345 3 years ago
Quoted from Pathfinder:

Does anyone know what the topper on the POTC CE is going to look like? I'd really like to talk myself into one, but it is so much more expensive than a regular edition. Is the topper really worth 3K extra?

There's a brief shot of it on one of the reveal videos. It's the Black Pearl ship in a giant bottle with the ocean and the ship (bottle?) gently rocks back and forth. Pretty neat, but the AfM LE one is still the best so far, hands down.

#346 3 years ago
Quoted from Pathfinder:

Does anyone know what the topper on the POTC CE is going to look like? I'd really like to talk myself into one, but it is so much more expensive than a regular edition. Is the topper really worth 3K extra?

Top of my head

Radcals 400
Powdercoating around 500
plus Barnacles. lets say another 250
Topper...400? 500?

Not staring at Johnny Depp - priceless

#347 3 years ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

Not staring at Johnny Depp - priceless

Yah. I really don't like an extra and huge Johnny picture on the playfield either. Sad that this is the number one reason to get the CE. I was really hoping that the topper would be in the same league as AFMrLE.

#348 3 years ago
Quoted from Pathfinder:

Yah. I really don't like an extra and huge Johnny picture on the playfield either. Sad that this is the number one reason to get the CE. I was really hoping that the topper would be in the same league as AFMrLE.

I must be in the minority in that I prefer the look of the LE to the CE. No barnacles or the schlong faced dude to look at.

Screenshot_20180301-192946 (resized).png

Screenshot_20180301-192701 (resized).png

#349 3 years ago
Quoted from Pathfinder:

Yah. I really don't like an extra and huge Johnny picture on the playfield either. Sad that this is the number one reason to get the CE. I was really hoping that the topper would be in the same league as AFMrLE.

The topper is just like the bottled Black Pearl from the last two movies including moving sea and lightning effects that make it looks like it storms inside. It tops the AFMLE topper for me personally (pun intended).

#350 3 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I must be in the minority in that I prefer the look of the LE to the CE. No barnacles or the schlong faced dude to look at.

Good point. Too bad there isn't a Keira Knightley version of the playfield.

There are 396 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 8.

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