(Topic ID: 210020)

Is JJP pricing itself out of business

By JY64

3 years ago


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  • 136 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Who-Dey
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There are 396 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 8.
#251 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I don't think JJP is pricing themselves out of business but with every $500 price bump they are making their pool of potential buyers smaller. Same can be said with Sterns price increases.
Myself and many others have been priced out by the yearly increase costs from Stern and JJP. Eventually, maybe we are there maybe not, sales will decrease.
Who I'm I kidding, it's time to sell a kidney and buy a POTC CE or the next Stern Super LE!

How would you like your frog today, sir? Room temperature, lukewarm or parboiled.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

-1
#252 3 years ago
Quoted from Pathfinder:

HUO Hobbits can be had for $6.8K. Maybe there is an uptick in price now that the good traits of the game are being more widely known. Retail they are $8.5K + shipping and or tax. So you could save $2K buying used. Pinball machines aren't like normal consumer goods. They are commercial equipment made to take abuse and be nearly completely re-buildable and maintainable. For HUO, they should last essentially forever. IMHO there shouldn't really be a huge drop in value/price for used HUO. Just an adjustment for wear/damage (if any) and games that haven't been kept up.
$9K is a lot of money for a NIB game and to lose over $2K of it in a year ($5.40 per day, every day) is tough. Turning around and spending even more would be hard for me and I would really start to think that that money might be better spent on something else. On the other hand, If I didn't lose much money on the resale, I'd have no problem buying another NIB a year later. I think that this is something that JJP should be concerned about to make sure what they are doing is sustainable. Maybe they should really look at making production runs shorter and ensure that special/limited editions are in-fact limited in number relative to the market demand. Also, releasing new/better/different code can support used values. As long as used values are kept up, I don't think they are pricing themselves out of the market...

Hobbits can be bought used for $6-6500. It's too much to lose paying for a NIB. i understand you lose money when buying a NIB but when a game is a total dud with early stuck balls issues followed by boring uninspired code, it's not worth the loss buying NIB.
Too many misses will make any pinball manufacturer price itself out of business.

#253 3 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

Not sure WWELE will ever sell out

WWE LE was a sellout theme that can't sell out. Ironic.

#254 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

If I'm mistaken and proven wrong, I will gladly apologize. But you have been called out a few times in this thread as being Jody Dankberg and not once have you denied it until now. How do you explain yourself?

Hope this isn't true, would be very disappointing for Stern to have a high-level employee taking "anonymous" swipes at the competition on Pinside. Especially when Stern's (totally reasonable) policy is to not comment on Pinside.

Is there a specific reason to think OP is Mr. Dankberg? Even though he took a seeming shot at the Aerosmith LCD implementation?

#255 3 years ago

I don't know about JJP, but KFC is certainly looking to price itself out of business.

Over 8 bucks for a 3 piece meal. Sheesh....

#256 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I don't know about JJP, but KFC is certainly looking to price itself out of business.
Over 8 bucks for a 3 piece meal. Sheesh....

zzzz1 (resized).jpg

#257 3 years ago
Quoted from SilverBallz:

Hobbits can be bought used for $6-6500. It's too much to lose paying for a NIB. i understand you lose money when buying a NIB but when a game is a total dud with early stuck balls issues followed by boring uninspired code, it's not worth the loss buying NIB.
Too many misses will make any pinball manufacturer price itself out of business.

I thought the stuck ball problem was solved by the kit we have all been provided with that goes behind the popandrop targets. I have not installed mine yet because they don't get stuck often enough to piss me off.

#258 3 years ago

Idiot posting deleted.

#259 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

once 12500 is due.

I care so little about JJP's themes/products.... that I completely missed that.
Yeah... no. way in hell.
Ya'll enjoy that.

#260 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

None of this means I'm right but it does seem highly suspicious.

Reminds me of the days when manufacturers never mentioned other companies products in their ads. It was just common courtesy.

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#261 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'm open to understanding but nothing definitive. If you begin reading at comment #91 on the second page, you will see a pattern of him being called out or hinted at by various people and he does nothing to address the issue. Nothing, not even the first time I called him out. Read the back and forth in this thread and you can draw your own conclusion.
None of this means I'm right but it does seem highly suspicious.

I'd like to think that you and Whysnow are both grown-up enough to offer a heartfelt apology to Jody if/when the OP proves who he is, and it's NOT him.
I'd LIKE to think that.

#262 3 years ago

Already posted:

Quoted from Mr68:

If I'm mistaken and proven wrong, I will gladly apologize.

#263 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

If I'm mistaken and proven wrong, I will gladly apologize.

This is hardly a magnanimous gesture.

It's lame to make an accusation that you admittedly don't know to be true.

And equally lame to put the burden of proof on the person you are accusing with the caveat that you will gladly apologize.

#264 3 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

It's lame to make an accusation that you admittedly don't know to be true.

256zp1 (resized).jpg

#265 3 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

This is hardly a magnanimous gesture.
It's lame to make an accusation that you admittedly don't know to be true.
And equally lame to put the burden of proof on the person you are accusing with the caveat that you will gladly apologize.

I have to agree and I'm embarrassed that I allowed myself to get caught up in all of this. I retract my comments, sincerely apologize to all and I will humbly back out of this conversation.

#266 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I don't know about JJP, but KFC is certainly looking to price itself out of business.
Over 8 bucks for a 3 piece meal. Sheesh....

You can always count on Taco Bell. Can still get a gut pump meal for $5.

#267 3 years ago

This whole "JY64 is Jody Dankberg!" myth was debunked a year ago. Whysnow just won't let it die though.

Quoted from Xerico:

Ok. This is a warning to everyone. Stop badgering users by calling them Jody or Kaneda.
You can call LTG, Lloyd for example. He's admitted that he is indeed Lloyd.
But you cannot continue to call someone Jody or Kaneda just because you think they MIGHT be Jody or Kaneda.
For instance JY64 is not Kaneda. He's not Jody. He has provided his personal information to the Pinside Staff. We know that he is not Jody. He is JY64 unless he decides to make his real name public.
Robin has given the moderators a directive to do our best to make Pinside more positive and friendly.
Badgering users by proclaiming them the next Kaneda or Jody is not friendly and it is not a direction that Pinside wants to travel.
If you feel someone is a duplicate account, then open a Mod Feedback and let us know.
Do not make it your job to call them out consistently. Let the moderator team know, and we'll do the leg work.
Starting today, a moderator can, and most likely will, eject people from threads if they falsely accuse someone of being a duplicate account. So if you continue calling JY64 "Jody", you can expect to be permanently ejected from the thread.
If you ignore the ejection and continue to call out the account, you will be all forum ejected.
If you really want a duplicate account unmasked and held accountable, then report the account using the abuse tools or by opening a Mod Feedback thread.
So, pretty please, with a cherry on top, stop harassing members just because you THINK they are someone else. If you have proof, bring it to us. If you have a hunch, let us know. But do not continue calling them out on threads.
On behalf of the Pinside Staff,
Marcus

#268 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You can always count on Taco Bell. Can still get a gut pump meal for $5.

And I can eat it while playing my "home edition" pinball machine.

#269 3 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

I used to be this way, but once I had 11 or 12 games I realized I never played but about 4-6 at a time so the others sat there for 6+ months and never got played. I think 6-8 good complete games is all anyone really needs. Anything over that and they are not getting played unless you host large parties or tournaments. I honestly could get by with 3. I play the flavor of the month and 1 or 2 others on a regular basis.

I totally agree with this sentiment.

BUT, if people only kept a rotation of 3 pins, and that sounds crazy because who in their right mind owns 3 pinball machines, who is going to buy the NIB pins when you can't sell the OLD pins on the secondary market because everybody is downsizing?

This hobby depends on more people continuing to suspend all logic and keep adding new pins to the "collection".

It's one thing to expect to bring more pinheads into the fold with a $6500 tricked out Woz than it is a $10k tricked out Woz.

#270 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

And I can eat it while playing my "home edition" pinball machine.

Two combo burritos, spicy no onions, 4 crispy tacos. Ahhh the good old days.

And who can forget the late night runs to Jack in the Box for a bag of Super Tacos! Greasy greatness at its best.

I want some right now really bad.

-5
#271 3 years ago
Quoted from BillySastard:

This whole "JY64 is Jody Dankberg!" myth was debunked a year ago. Whysnow just won't let it die though.

I have been calling JY64 Jody Yankberg. He is not Jody Dankberg, but rather a Stern fan to the extreme of trolling hence he is constantly yanking us all around.

I can't believe I need to even explain that play on names/ pinside handles for some people...

I dont really care whom he is in real life and have no idea if he is a Stern employee (although some things are obvious at this stage and each person can make their own judgement call since he has chosen to remain anonymous yet continues with his same old stuff for years now). He has an obvious agenda and it is tired and old. The funniest part of this whole thread is that he started it with the intent to troll everyone and hoped he would bring out the JJP haters. Instead the obvious tide change has happened and people largely have commented on the issue Stern has had rather then any indication of concern for JJP pricing.

#272 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Instead the obvious tide change has happened and people largely have commented on the issue Stern has had rather then any indication of concern for JJP pricing.

Actually i think we have transitioned to gut pump food pricing.

#273 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Actually i think we have transitioned to gut pump food pricing.

I think it's all relative.

If you are willing to pay near 9 dollars for three tiny pieces of extra crispy and some fake mashed potatoes just because you have to have it, then I see no reason not to pay nine grand for a pinball machine just because you want to have it.

#274 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I have been calling JY64 Jody Yankberg. He is not Jody Dankberg, but rather a Stern fan to the extreme of trolling hence he is constantly yanking us all around.
I can't believe I need to even explain that play on names/ pinside handles for some people...
I dont really care whom he is in real life and have no idea if he is a Stern employee (although some things are obvious at this stage and each person can make their own judgement call since he has chosen to remain anonymous yet continues with his same old stuff for years now). He has an obvious agenda and it is tired and old. The funniest part of this whole thread is that he started it with the intent to troll everyone and hoped he would bring out the JJP haters. Instead the obvious tide change has happened and people largely have commented on the issue Stern has had rather then any indication of concern for JJP pricing.

Good on you for opposing his comments.
It would down-right ignorant for anyone to keep spouting their hateful views over and over, ignoring the fact that others may not share their opinion.
Right?

#275 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I think it's all relative.
If you are willing to pay near 9 dollars for three tiny pieces of extra crispy and some fake mashed potatoes just because you have to have it, then I see no reason not to pay nine grand for a pinball machine just because you want to have it.

I'm not quite willing to make that leap Odiner. From $9 to $9k requires a little thought process and a few beers.

And I'm just trying to relate because i have no desire to grab a KFC bucket at any price or that crapola mashed potato prison food

I am thinking about grabbing myself a bag of Mickey D breakfast Mcmuffins right now though, sausage of course and much more healthy for you, skip the hash browns.

#276 3 years ago

After many beers tonight i've finally decided

I'm gonna hit the local Bill Miller Bbq for a Chicken sandwich with green beans on the side and a couple of bean and cheese tacos.

For dessert i have a box of Sweet Tarts from Wal Mart, dark chocolate Milky Way minis, good for the heart, and a few non fat Cherry Twizzlers.

Play my pins and watch a little Olympic curling, and of course Gold Rush

Life is good. I'm out!

#277 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I am thinking about grabbing myself a bag of Mickey D breakfast Mcmuffins right now though, sausage of course and much more healthy for you,

Dude, Jack in the Box Sausage Croissants! Although they aren't much shaped like a croissant anymore, they are still the bomb.

#278 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I don't know about JJP, but KFC is certainly looking to price itself out of business.
Over 8 bucks for a 3 piece meal. Sheesh....

That smoky mountain BBQ with the pickles is pretty tasty, though...

#279 3 years ago

+1 Jack-in-the-box tacos

#280 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

That smoky mountain BBQ with the pickles is pretty tasty, though...

When they first introduced BBQ style it was the best! Same sauce they put on the ribs they used to have. That stuff was tasty!

Our local KFC had a four piece wing dinner for $1.15. In high school in the late 70s that was a deal! And these weren't wing parts that they give you now and call them wings. These were four huge whole wings with two sides and a biscuit. The box wouldn't even close all the way and that sauce was dripping everywhere.

After a while it went down hill and someone that worked there told me they were now just putting the sauce on dried up day old original to get rid of it. All good things come to an end I guess.

#281 3 years ago

Anyone around here familiar with Ken M? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_M

#282 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I don't know about JJP, but KFC is certainly looking to price itself out of business.
Over 8 bucks for a 3 piece meal. Sheesh....

I told the same thing to my wife just this week.

#283 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I have been calling JY64 Jody Yankberg. He is not Jody Dankberg, but rather a Stern fan to the extreme of trolling hence he is constantly yanking us all around.
I can't believe I need to even explain that play on names/ pinside handles for some people...
I dont really care whom he is in real life and have no idea if he is a Stern employee (although some things are obvious at this stage and each person can make their own judgement call since he has chosen to remain anonymous yet continues with his same old stuff for years now). He has an obvious agenda and it is tired and old. The funniest part of this whole thread is that he started it with the intent to troll everyone and hoped he would bring out the JJP haters. Instead the obvious tide change has happened and people largely have commented on the issue Stern has had rather then any indication of concern for JJP pricing.

You think everyone is a Stern employee! lol

#284 3 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

You think everyone is a Stern employee! lol

I'm a Stern employee

#285 3 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

I'm a Stern employee

I'm Spartacus

#286 3 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

I'm a Stern employee

Oh yeah, well according to someone in this thread I'm Gary Stern. So as your boss get to work on my Led Zeppelin pin.

Can't we all just agree that jjp makes good games but they have crazy prices? And that stern makes a different style but still great games that are also over priced? I think a more accurate title is all pinball companies are pricing themselves out of business.

#287 3 years ago

Maybe it is just coincidence, but what I'm seeing is that used Stern Premiums that the "new bubble" is over with but NIB is still available (pins that have been out for maybe a year) don't sell as easily until they get down close to a NIB Pro. Guessing that operators aren't interested in those as a Pro "will do", so that opens those up more for primarily home use buyers. With the difference in price between Pro and Premium being greater than $1K, it seems the Premiums will take a bigger loss in year 2 through maybe 5.

JJP pins are a little different. The target seems to be home use buyers and a big part being international sales. Operators appear to not be too interested in used JJP pins that cost more than NIB Stern Pros and that seems understandable. The higher price of JJP pins will likely sting a little like the Stern premiums if you go to sell them. As long as the home use buyers will continue to buy the NIB JJP pins and accept that $1-2K loss a couple of years later when/if they sell them, the market will continue as is from this stand point. The initial NIB prices rising every pin will max out people and their return customers might decrease, so ... they need more new buyers. They do seem to be marketing more towards new buyers instead of return customers - I only say that because we see no return buyer incentives ... and I don't expect that we would ever see that. With targeting new buyers, I'm guessing that is why JJP was/is offering some sort of incentives for operators to get their product out there in the public for people to play and lust after. That is a pretty good marketing scheme.

All of this being said, I personally think that they hit the ceiling and will have issues if they have a pin that turns out to be a dud in the opinion of those buyers. They will need to protect themselves from if/when the economy takes a hit again. If they can protect themselves from a 1 year downturn with low sales, they will survive.

That's my theory - correct or not.

#288 3 years ago

JJP was pricing itself out of business when they sold WOZ for $6500.

I think what a lot of us forget is that if you can afford a 6k toy, you can afford an 8k toy. We live in a country where 50% of the population can't cover a $500 unexpected expense.

#289 3 years ago
Quoted from KingBW:

JJP was/is offering some sort of incentives for operators to get their product out there in the public for people to play and lust after.

If discounts/incentives are required for operators to put JJP on-route, it is a pretty good indication that they are overpriced. From there, it is a slippery slope to stopping building these things for commercial use and then only targeting hobbyists. If these things are no-longer commercial quality then I'm not interested anymore and certainly not at a $8K+ level.

#290 3 years ago

Just curious - what is the typical pay-back time for a new $8K machine for the typical operator? That is, net of venue costs, maintenance, etc., how many years does it take to cover the cost of the machine?

#291 3 years ago
Quoted from Pathfinder:

Just curious - what is the typical pay-back time for a new $8K machine for the typical operator? That is, net of venue costs, maintenance, etc., how many years does it take to cover the cost of the machine?

If the earnings stay consistent, it would be about 4 years on the route I help with for a JJP pin. Stern Premium about a year less. But the problem is that except for WoZ, both the other JJP pin earnings have dropped off substantially after the first 6 months or so. WoZ is the only one that keeps earning at a consistent level.

I will say, though, that the pinball renaissance keeps pulling more people in on location as word gets out about new pins in the wild, and total earnings go up as a result. So as long as prices don't keep accelerating, the location market should continue widening.

#292 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

But the problem is that except for WoZ, both the other JJP pins have dropped off substantially after the first 6 months or so. WoZ is the only one that keeps earning at a consistent level.

Can vary from location to location.

My DI is consistent. WOZ keeps plugging along. The last 6 months Hobbit is gaining, it's gotten quite a following.

LTG : )

#293 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I have been calling JY64 Jody Yankberg. He is not Jody Dankberg, but rather a Stern fan to the extreme of trolling hence he is constantly yanking us all around.
I can't believe I need to even explain that play on names/ pinside handles for some people...
I dont really care whom he is in real life and have no idea if he is a Stern employee (although some things are obvious at this stage and each person can make their own judgement call since he has chosen to remain anonymous yet continues with his same old stuff for years now). He has an obvious agenda and it is tired and old. The funniest part of this whole thread is that he started it with the intent to troll everyone and hoped he would bring out the JJP haters. Instead the obvious tide change has happened and people largely have commented on the issue Stern has had rather then any indication of concern for JJP pricing.

There are few if any JJP haters you could not name even 5 Stern haters on the other hand are abundant . The real issue is price has cut the very large number of JJP fans in half over the yrs . As for remaining anonymous i take it Whysnow is your given name lol

#294 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Already posted:

Mr68 You asked last week why I did not say anything with all the accusations . I felt with this quite some time ago and can't get drawn into a pissing contest every time it happens as for the moderators I reported post 183 last wed or thu but moderators sat on there hands so no point in that just have to roll my eyes and let it slide

#295 3 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Good on you for opposing his comments.
It would down-right ignorant for anyone to keep spouting their hateful views over and over, ignoring the fact that others may not share their opinion.
Right?

The funny thing is it will go over his head

12
#296 3 years ago
Quoted from JY64:

There are few if any JJP haters you could not name even 5 Stern haters on the other hand are abundant . The real issue is price has cut the very large number of JJP fans in half over the yrs . As for remaining anonymous i take it Whysnow is your given name lol

Where are you coming up with your numbers ("The real issue is price has cut the very large number of JJP fans in half over the years")?

As a distributor, I can tell you that every year I sell more JJP games than the previous year. Hobbit is the best selling JJP game I have, followed by Wizard of Oz. I would venture to guess that at least 60% of those sales are to people NOT ON PINSIDE. The pinball market is comprised of way more people than those just located here.

Just curious about your acquisition of information. While you (and some other people here) might agree with you, your opinions that you are trying to pass off as fact are just wrong.

Have a great day.

#297 3 years ago
Quoted from KingPinGames:

Where are you coming up with your numbers ("The real issue is price has cut the very large number of JJP fans in half over the years")?
As a distributor, I can tell you that every year I sell more JJP games than the previous year. Hobbit is the best selling JJP game I have, followed by Wizard of Oz. I would venture to guess that at least 60% of those sales are to people NOT ON PINSIDE. The pinball market is comprised of way more people than those just located here.
Just curious about your acquisition of information. While you (and some other people here) might agree with you, your opinions that you are trying to pass off as fact are just wrong.
Have a great day.

You may be right I will change that to the Pinside Buzz has cut back

#298 3 years ago
Quoted from JY64:

You may be right I will change that to the Pinside Buzz has cut back

That I can agree with, but I don't think it is a JJP price issue. I believe it has more to do with "more shinney objects" available. Let just take a look at the companies that have emerged since JJP started with WoZ.

Spooky
Chicago Gaming
Highway
American Pinball
Multimorphic
The Pinball Company

I am sure I missed one or two, but the point is there is only so much "buzz" that can go around so it has to be pulled from somewhere. That being said, Pirates of the Caribbean has had one of the most talked about releases (with very little criticism) in recent history. The videos that are being put out by JJP, SDTM, and others are really brought this game back into people views. With the upcoming shows, I think you will see the "buzz" pick up again. I sold 2 PotC Collector's Edition and a Limited Edition in the last week just from people seeing newer videos.

13
#299 3 years ago
Quoted from JY64:

You may be right I will change that to the Pinside Buzz has cut back

You may not be looking in the right places, but Pirates is on fire right now. It may not be stirring the buzz pot some pinsiders like because it lacks pinside drama. Trust me, if they were streaming this game with laughable voice over actors, or no rules implementation, or code that just lights a color and you chase it around the playfield, or if it was copy paste from Dialed In; the game would be getting plenty of pinside buzz. Truth is, the game looks stellar and amazing. It’s the *mic drop* effect so to speak - here it is, engineered and coded like no other release, nothing more to say.

Notice other companies that are getting all the pinside attention...? Incomplete copy+paste code from some manufacturers; incomplete code by some; companies gaining attention by hiring all sorts of questionable peeps making outrageous claims; some companies still struggling to get games in owners’ hands after 3+ years; some having manufacturing issues; etc... I think JJP is in a good place with their ‘buzz’. Simply put, any company that comes close to JJPs price point will get their shit handed to them because the lack of quality and dedication comparatively speaking is unmatched.

#300 3 years ago

It’s amazing to me that anyone routes games anymore with that pitiful ROI

On the other hand, if you owned the barcade and made 100% of the profits?

How many CEs do you still have unspoken for Kingpin? Since I have one through I’m curious how well they are hanging in there

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