I think it's going to be interesting to see the Iron Maiden reveal next week. The thing that got so many people excited about POTC from JJP was it has a new designer that clearly put a not of new ideas and that this is my first game passion into it. I think people like that JJP doesn't seem to hold design features back and just prices the game more if needed so that the designer doesn't have a lot of restrictions. For me that makes the games higher then I will pay for them. I'm glad that others are willing too though. Next week we find out what stern has done with Keith's first game. Did they hold him back and remove a ton of stuff? Will it be exactly what Keith wanted and if so what's the price going to be? Will this be sterns response to POTC or is it just business as usual. I'm excited to see.

Jeez, you want to share? We are getting annihilated this year (and last!)

I spoke with a large JJP dealer yesterday regarding when he thought Potc would be released and the answer I got was probably not for another 6 months. seems like a long time to me.

That's definitely an issue for JJP. People seem willing to wait for their games but they loose a lot of momentum between announcement and actual delivery of games. That's something that JJP will have to get a handle on at some point if they can keep growing.

even IF they dont butcher it... It should be the same price. It does not have many more mechs than a typical Stern, just 4 flippers. If people are dumb enough to pay thousands more for 2 extra flipper mechs then they will be sure to charge it... Sad that people are even regurgitating this storyline they want you to believe. Going beyond 17 coils should NOT add big bucks to the end cost of a game.

It appears DI has picked up steam and WOZ is still selling. This tells me they are just using that time to put more polish on POTC before it delivers which is a great thing! I woudl say if anything that POTC seems like they did a nice job of stealing the show and getting tons of orders last fall, did a nice hype bump with the live stream last week, and will likely get more bumps from the refined game being for play at TPF and MGC this spring show circuit. If anything, it seems they have extended the hype train better than most with this one.

Story lines mean nothing to me, I'm excited to see Iron Maiden because it's from a new designer and hopefully that will bring some fresh thoughts and designs to the table. I'm also expecting normal stern pricing but that seems to not be as normal with every release these days. Every company seems to find a reason for a price increase.

No real clue how DI has sold. Seems like it is doing OK, not setting the world on fire but selling steady and being received well from what I've heard but I do not know JJP's numbers. It plays well but the theme will hold some people back from it. As for the hype drain I do not agree, the people that are already in are getting more excited and that is who you are mostly hearing from. Others that didn't bite at first have moved on and may circle back around once shipping and the kinks are worked out or may just move on period.

Did I miss some sort of leak that basically guarantees Iron Maiden is the next machine?

It has been stated by MNpinball and he is usually the man in the know for final confirmation of these things.

The standard and le are still selling very steady....

because it is a fun game and as more people have played it, they like it. That is how it works when a game is actually designed well, coded well, but and unlicensed theme... They put the energy into making a great game rather than just hyping a tired license based on nostalgia and trying to dig out with code on a poorly designed and empty layout game.

If it is not obvious to you, license sell out of the gate, but we are seeing a shift where people are willing to pay for a great playing non-licensed theme that is properly coded. You should try it out sometime.

CE is sold out via JJP so that tells me there are even enough collectors into this theme to buy an overpriced one for the plaque.
Reality is that standard and LE sales are apparently doing very well and continue to sell.

It's a really well done game that possibly shoots better then any other game made in the last 20 years. I think it will continue to sell for several years. The theme and call outs are what holds it back for me. Otherwise there isn't much you can knock on the game for. Some people will not like the code but you simply cannot make everyone happy when it comes to code or art for any game.

As for the CE's it was there first attempt at it and it was a straight money grab after seeing BM66. People shouldn't be buying that thing as it gives you pretty much nothing other the LE model. So it can't come as much of a surprise that they are not selling fast. The LE is the best value on this one.

lol

you are grasping for something now. Pathetic and sad all with one short post.

Pro tip: punctuation was invented for a reason.

You made me agree with Whysnow.

I hope you are happy with yourself.

This is an important point. IMO.

This thread is inane from the get go. JJP (like any other businesses) has employees to advise their business practices, and the most data available by which to evaluate their business's success. If their business analysts see that their pricing isn't sustainable then they will change it to a sustainable model, and in some cases that could mean raising their prices, while lowering volume -- but JJP still wouldn't be "pricing itself out of business." Of course, poor management could prove me wrong, but the point of any business is to stay in business and increase profit.

One aspect that gets overlooked a lot of the time when looking at cost is support. JJP has a dedicated tech support team and part of the cost of machines has to go toward paying for that. I cannot speak for other manufacturers, but I have been very impressed with the support that JJP has given me on my Hobbit. Almost every time I called someone picked up ready to help me with my issue; the couple times I left a message I received a prompt callback within the hour. The fact that they are willing to stand behind their products like this makes me confident in supporting them in the future.

perhaps that is because the JJP buyers are playing their games and not sitting on pinside instead.

just a thought.

reading the arguments between JY64 and Whysnow reminds me that 90's movie with Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels.

JJP is not pricing themselves out of the hobby, but they are pricing Stern out. Think about it...when JJP raises his prices Stern usually raises theirs by the same amount. However, we are getting less and less from Stern for these higher prices, poor quality, and code issues that will never end. JJP has no such issues.

So Stern is chasing away customers at these higher prices more than JJP is. Houdini could change the market around a little bit in the future though...there is a lot of game there for the money. I would be in for one if I did not have some recent financial issues I had to redirect my cash to, but it is in my future soon.

Well said Glenn!!!!!!

Hate it when that happens!

very well put!

There is no doubt that as JJP has offered a premier product (and associate higher price), Stern has rode those coat tails to raise prices while decreasing quality and QC. The tides have definitely turned on public sentiment for them lately (this thread is a good indicator as just a year ago JY64 would get away with this BS trolling) and it will be interesting to see their path forward.

The have acknowledged some fault through trying to buy back support on pf issue and cabinet issue fixes and now with new hires in code department showing that they finally see the requirement to support games... I am curious if they will actual improve quality, build more full featured games, etc...

I actually really like the animations on Aerosmith I think it fits the game well especially with Dirty Donny's artwork.

Those Aerosmith Animations are rough.

Just to tip the balance a little i went ahead and bought a Dialed In!

Stock is dwindling!!! not really.

I await Jonesy Yankberg's next gem of a thread

Wow and that's for the regular and LE editions first. That means the CE won't be out until xmas time?

I'm really hoping he didn't have a clue and just said whatever came to mind keeping my expectations low. 6 more months is quite a long time from the original announcement.

I was told Early April last I checked...

Actually I'd say both short term and long term considering tax cuts don't expire until 2025.

The point is they need more FTE's short term, right now, to get code done MUCH quicker, which should result in more sales across the board, short term and long term.

They clearly realize they have had a terrible problem with code at release and then getting it done timely.

For me the cost of a machine is the price you paid for it minus what you get for it when it is time to sell it on. After all, you can't be buried with them! What will start to be an issue for JJP is if 6-12 mo old HUO machines fall in price by such a large amount that fewer people are willing to pay the high NIB price. They will be forced to have lower sale prices. Case in point, I heard that The hobbit was on sale a month or so ago for $1K off. It is currently $500 off by my local distributor. Maybe not all distributors are passing along the sale prices. Anyway, the point is that the MSRP may be high for some regions and titles. I expect that the last people to buy POTC will pay significantly less than the first.

I am really glad that I didn't buy my Hobbit NIB. The savings from a 1 year old machine with just a few hundred plays is just too great. With essentially no features that would make any of their SE versions substantially more desirable than any other version, there is no hope of it holding it's value after they are discontinued. And worse yet - what if they really are never discontinued? Are we going to get to a point where older used machines just won't have much of a value? Will the cost of replacement boards be just too high versus new that there will be no reason for refurbishing a pin?

A NIB retail AFMrLe on the other hand, does seem to be a better value. That is, if they don't make any more toppers and don't offer the saucer light show as a retrofit. There will always be people willing to pay extra for more functionality and for the uniqueness.

All I can add to the discussion is that DI seem to sell very well. In Europe, there is no stock and you have to wait for new games being produced.

I don't get this because unless I'm buying pins and just sitting on them hoping to break even or make a profit I've never ever thought at the time of purchase "will I get my money back" if I did I don't think I would want to buy pinball machines anymore. The reason I buy them is to play, have fun and if I have to take a loss when I'm done then who cares? I mean its not collecting sports memorabilia or stamps or coins that sit stagnant where the value is really the main concern and this feeds into my lack of caring with regards to "superior build quality" or "world under the glass" shit. I do care about gameplay and theme as they affect my fun factor, unless the pin is a trainwreck which for me has never happened then its not an important issue. I agree that for many if JJP prices far out weigh their resale it will affect the demand, but not for me. When I had 20 plus pins and decided to sell a bunch I remember guys coming by with the mind set that they weren't going higher than lets say 2800 for a pin I had listed at 3K and when I wouldn't budge they walked away??? I couldn't do that, if it was a game I really wanted and a nice example and i offered 28 but the seller was solid at 3K that pin would coming home with me at 3. I wasn't going to pass it up for 200 dollars and I wouldn't pass on an expensive NIB pin that I really want because I knew I would be taking a loss eventually. Now either I'm really stupid or I just love pinball or both, yep I'm going with both, final answer.

You are not stupid. You are just probably in a different financial position than other pinheads. Mentally changes pending the amount of bills you have in your wallet.

I was told August at the earliest for POTC. When I spoke to someone at JJP the other day they disputed that and said much quicker because they were getting ready to change the line which takes about week(maybe 2, cant remember exactly) and then games come rolling out a couple of weeks later.

Dont shoot the messenger.

Buying a NIB JJP pin is like buying a car (I've had all three LE's)....as soon as u open the box you've probably lost about 10-15% of its value....That being said I don't buy pins to break even or make money....

I hope your right about it being a few weeks to a month or so. August is a long ways away! Lol

I believe that is an accurate assumption. Getting away with less loss would maybe be possible if there is a long wait for a NIB and you actually have an almost NIB for sale.

I think generally this is why the JJP stuff holds its value a little better than others. They sort of have limited production since the factory doesn't crank em out like stern and flood the market/distributors. They fly off the shelf from the distributors because most only get a few at a time. It seems to some extent that unless your willing to buy from any distributor there is always some sort of wait. Some of the big stern distributors get them by the truck load.

Not saying this is good or bad just the way it is.

one would think with all the cash JJP is pulling in right now, they'd ramp up and strike while the iron's hot. it sounds like all three games are homeruns and yet they've only make three games in seven years. but maybe that's their business model.

You can't count the total time since JJP had issues with WoZ and Hobbit getting them up to speed, but the gap between Woz and Hobbit was 3 years, while the gap between Hobbit and Dialed In release was only one year, and they're on track to release jjPotC with a one year gap again, so JJP is on the cusp of getting two games a year out, which Jack stated as a short term goal. They're making rapid progress now.

I don't see why they have nowhere to go but up.

When they get to the Gone With the Wind Confederate LE with custom grey armour, I can't see it going for less than $20k.

I thought they had the license for Ben Hur.... lol