Space Time
Bally, 1972So there was a 1972 Bally Space Time posted on Craigslist this morning for $1,000. I sent the seller a message letting them know I wasn't interested in buying the pin, and just to inform them the price was way off base. I let them know that EM pins from that era don't sell for that kind of money. Is that rude? I felt like it was the right thing to do because some people are just a little ignorant when it comes to the pinball market. Am I the one that's off base here?
Not necessarily rude, but probably pointless. Chances are the seller knows that the price is high and is hoping someone with little experience takes it at asking price, or expects to be lowballed so is starting high. That's why you found it on CL and not Mr. Pinball, or here. Check Ebay pinball prices for more of the same.
Of course there is always the chance that he/she is just stupid.
People can ask whatever they want for a machine, but it doesn't mean they'll get it.
I always ask low to sell fast. Some don't mind waiting and ask high. But truthfully, you can't go to Walmart and pick up a 1972 Space Time, so whenever someone has something for sale that I want for a certain price that I don't, Ill make my best offer and leave it at that.
If the person isn't satisfied, they can wait. Or they can counter offer, but at that point it's really up to them. Food for thought: If everyone sold every machine for the going rate forever, Medieval Madness would still be a $3500 machine.
I don't think it does any good. If I am interested, I send an email with my offer. They will usually send back a reply defending their ridiculous price and I'll reply once more with a price that I'm a guaranteed buyer at. I find that to be a better approach. If they really want to sell it, they'll come down after it sits at $1K for a while.
I have done something similar before. Tell them what they typically run at. Provide proof and tell them to contact you if it doesn't sell for that price.
You're close to the line on this one. Can't judge based upon not seeing the ad but a top condition Space Time might be worth 1k. Just because it's an em doesn't make it cheap. Try and pick up a fireball someday!
Unfortunately with CL it will probably fall on deaf ears. If it's a title you are interested in you can try and talk to them. There's an em I am interested in that is priced at 950 and he'll let it go for 650. I spoke with him and let him know that if he gets to 450 I'll take it. He was reasonable but there is no guarentee.
If you watch CL alot you'll have to get used to seeing the same old add week after week for pachinko, zizzle and overpriced pins.
Quoted from futurepinhead:Tell them what they typically run at. Provide proof and tell them to contact you if it doesn't sell for that price.
That's exactly what I did. I included a link to the one that was for sale on here for 550 about 8 months ago. I'm realistically at like $400 for this machine since pictures weren't even posted on the ad. It could be a dumper.
I have also been on the other end. It seems everyone who contacts me about a pin, no matter my price, is looking to get for $400 or more under what I have it listed. So, I list my machines for more than what I am actually willing to part with them for, and then the buyer can negotiate it down to my actual price and we both leave happy. I much rather receive a short email saying "let me know if you get down to $X and i'll buy it" than a 5 page report on why I have my machine priced high. I know why I have it priced high. 
Quoted from Cheddar:Just because it's an em doesn't make it cheap.
That's true. No pictures were included, so I was just going off of what I would consider to be a fair price for this machine in fair condition.
I wouldn't contact unless I was interested, something to the effect of "The market trend for this machine is currently $500 in working order, and that's what I'm willing to offer." If he tells you to F off, wish him luck and drop it.
Waste of time. I sometimes will list something with a ridiculously high price on Craigs List because it's one of those "I don't really want to sell it, but could use the space for something even better if someone takes me up on my offer scenarios". you never know what the actual motives of a given seller are.
If you see a ridiculously high price and are interested in something, it's also not out of line to lowball an offer. I had something listed at $550 a while a go and ended up selling it for $150 because the person on the other end knew what they were talking about and I knew I wouldn't get an annoying email or call in a week asking for a refund because the game doesn't work.
Quoted from Pahuffman:That's exactly what I did. I included a link to the one that was for sale on here for 550 about 8 months ago. I'm realistically at like $400 for this machine since pictures weren't even posted on the ad. It could be a dumper.
You may hear from him in a couple months then. I don't think you were out of line.
Quoted from centerflank:I made sure I messaged him later on to let him know I sold it for 4.1K.
I've definitely gotten one of these before. The guy made sure he let me know the item sold for the asking price. It wasn't a pin though. I think it was a guitar.
Quoted from Pahuffman:I've definitely gotten one of these before. The guy made sure he let me know the item sold for the asking price. It wasn't a pin though. I think it was a guitar.
If you're routinely getting these emails, you might be a jackass.
You're wasting your time. There's no "Kelly Blue Book" for pinballs, hence, no official guide. I know Boston Pinball lists sales histories, but they are still auction settings, (most steer clear of 'em).
The problem with no Kelly Blue Book are retailers like Pinrescue, (found in a simple 5 minute google search by those lacking the knowledge to price their game). You can try and explain all you want about the work Russ puts into his games to the seller, and you'll still hear, "He's selling the same machine for $3999. I figured mine would be worth at least 1/2 that much." Whether Russ sells his games for that much or not, you can't prove any value as realistic since there's no Kelly Blue Book.
A Space Time for $1K? The way the hobby is these days, don't be surprised to find it sold over the weekend...........
I personally think it is a waste of time to price police the internet. Unless you actually had interest in making an offer. The seller is just going to get offended and pissed at your email.
Theres been a f14 near me for like double the price of what it should sell for. Been up for months... The market will always have outliers and move on its way as it pleases.
Quoted from Boatcat:You're wasting your time. There's no "Kelly Blue Book" for pinballs, hence, no official guide. I know Boston Pinball lists sales histories, but they are still auction settings, (most steer clear of 'em).
The problem with no Kelly Blue Book are retailers like Pinrescue, (found in a simple 5 minute google search by those lacking the knowledge to price their game). You can try and explain all you want about the work Russ puts into his games to the seller, and you'll still hear, "He's selling the same machine for $3999. I figured mine would be worth at least 1/2 that much." Whether Russ sells his games for that much or not, you can't prove any value as realistic since there's no Kelly Blue Book.
A Space Time for $1K? The way the hobby is these days, don't be surprised to find it sold over the weekend...........
Does this one count?
http://www.thepinballwizard.net/index.php?p=product&id=2080
I haven't flipped through one of these price guide books, so I have no idea how realistic the prices are.
Quoted from jayhawkai:you might be a jackass.
Haha that's entirely possible. I look at Craigslist like an online garage sale. It's stuff people don't want. Just because they think it's made out of gold doesn't necessarily mean it is. If I rub one guy I'm never going to meet the wrong way trying to get a reasonable price then I don't think that's too ridiculous. My track record is pretty clean, but you can't please everybody.
If you have no interest in making a reasonable offer there is no reason to contact them. Do you tell ugly people that they are ugly just because you believe you possess that knowledge?
Quoted from Pahuffman:Haha that's entirely possible. I look at Craigslist like an online garage sale. It's stuff people don't want. Just because they think it's made out of gold doesn't necessarily mean it is. If I rub one guy I'm never going to meet the wrong way trying to get a reasonable price then I don't think that's too ridiculous. My track record is pretty clean, but you can't please everybody.
Wait a month when you see ads like this. The ad will still be there and nobody will have bought it. When they re-list it again, then send a reasonable offer. If they reject it, they either are willing to wait for someone uninformed to take advantage of, or they are just stubborn.
Quoted from northvibe:Unless you actually had interest in making an offer.
I would if the price was reasonable. Maybe if I educate the seller I can get a good machine for a fair price. There's also a thing called productive tension. If I know more about the product, which I do, then it's my job as the "expert" in this situation to enlighten the seller. I don't mean to sound arrogant in that way, but dealing with people who think, "it's old, so it's gold," are often uneducated about the product itself.
No, not a thing wrong with it. My TZ I got off of Craigslist in 2013. Guy was asking "$5,500 because he saw that on eBay". I ignored the post at first because of that, but then though, thought why not give it a go.
I sent him an email saying I wasn't trying to be an asshole but being into collecting these machines from the pictures I could tell it was dirty and hadn't been shopped in a long time, there was some typical fade, a small whole from a lockdown bar that had been pulled out and damaged the front cab in a small spot. Easily repairable, but still something to consider. I told him I couldn't do anywhere near $5,500 and that was for a pristine or very nice example. I told him I'd like to come look at it, but there would have to be an understanding that what I would offer wouldn't be near $5,500.
He called me and said he didn't know a thing about pinballs, just looked on eBay and would be happy for me to come look at it. He was flexible on price and appreciated my candor and how I expressed myself without being nasty about it. He said a few people had told him it was too high but in a nasty or mean way and then lowballed bad without even looking at it.
I went to look at the game that night. Noticed it was a very nice example that just needed a good shop and a little love mechanically and electronically. Picked up over that weekend for $3,800.
Quoted from The_Director:No, not a thing wrong with it. My TZ I got off of Craigslist in 2013. Guy was asking "$5,500 because he saw that on eBay". I ignored the post at first because of that, but then though, thought why not give it a go.
I sent him an email saying I wasn't trying to be an asshole but being into collecting these machines from the pictures I could tell it was dirty and hadn't been shopped in a long time, there was some typical fade, a small whole from a lockdown bar that had been pulled out and damaged the front cab in a small spot. Easily repairable, but still something to consider. I told him I couldn't do anywhere near $5,500 and that was for a pristine or very nice example. I told him I'd like to come look at it, but there would have to be an understanding that what I would offer wouldn't be near $5,500.
He called me and said he didn't know a thing about pinballs, just looked on eBay and would be happy for me to come look at it. He was flexible on price and appreciated my candor and how I expressed myself without being nasty about it. He said a few people had told him it was too high but in a nasty or mean way and then lowballed bad without even looking at it.
I went to look at the game that night. Noticed it was a very nice example that just needed a good shop and a little love mechanically and electronically. Picked up over that weekend for $3,800.
See? That's exactly how I handle it. I wasn't necessarily rude about it, but sometimes people just don't know what the hell they're talking about.
If it was listed for $100 would you pay him the $400 it's worth? That would be a proper thing to do to let him know he had it listed too low.
Quoted from schudel5:If it was listed for $100 would you pay him the $400 it's worth? That would be a proper thing to do to let him know he had it listed too low.
That's interesting. I haven't come across that scenario yet.
Quoted from Pahuffman:So there was a 1972 Bally Space Time posted on Craigslist this morning for $1,000. I sent the seller a message letting them know I wasn't interested in buying the pin, and just to inform them the price was way off base. I let them know that EM pins from that era don't sell for that kind of money. Is that rude? I felt like it was the right thing to do because some people are just a little ignorant when it comes to the pinball market. Am I the one that's off base here?
I honestly don't see the point if it's not even a game you're interested in. If on the other hand you are interested, there's nothing wrong with making an offer. "I think you'd be lucky to find a buyer at $X, but I'm interested at $Y."
If I'm interested in the game I do what others have suggested, list the price I would pay for the game, give a bit of the reason why I think it's worth what I'm willing to pay, and leave it at that.
Typically you get one of the 3 responses, 1) Piss off, 2) Thanks but I think you're wrong or trying to steal it from me, or 3) Thanks, if I get to the point where I think I'd sell it for what you're offering, I'll let you know.
Regarding pinrescue, when people tell me that's their reference I tell them to call Russ and see what he'd pay for your game. I mean, surely he'd pay you your asking price if he could double or triple his money, right? Most don't have any idea the amount of work he puts into his games or the niche market he serves.
For the most part, I'd agree with folks here - price policing CL or the Internet in general is like farting in the wind - you'll feel better but nobody else will really benefit from your efforts.
Dave
Well here's what I said in the email:
I hate to break it to you, but your price point is way off. EM pins just aren't typically worth that kind of money.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-space-time-pinball-machine
Even that one is too high.
Good luck with the sale.
Quoted from schudel5:If it was listed for $100 would you pay him the $400 it's worth? That would be a proper thing to do to let him know he had it listed too low.
I've always loved this argument, it's so dead on.
Quoted from Pahuffman:Well here's what I said in the email:
I hate to break it to you, but your price point is way off. EM pins just aren't typically worth that kind of money.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-space-time-pinball-machine
Even that one is too high.
Good luck with the sale.
Sounds pretty dickish... just my opinion. I'd sell it to just about anybody before I sold it to you in that situation.
Edit: thought i'd expound on this. There are better ways to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish. All you're doing with the above is coming off as confrontational, and pissing the owner (seller) off by talking DOWN the item you're trying to buy from him. There's a cognitive disconnect there on the seller's part... if the item is worth less than what I value it at personally, why do you want it? Doesn't make sense.
Here's a better way to handle it.
"Hello! I saw your cool old Space Time pinball machine on craigslist. I love that thing, I used to play it years ago, it's really fun and I'd like to own one. I can't pay $1000 for it, but if you'd consider $400 for it I could come pick it up from you. Great game!
Thanks!"
See the nuance? Why be a dick to somebody you're trying to get something from? Tell them how nice the game is, tell them how great the font was they typed the ad in. There's no need to beat up the machine, they already know all the flaws in it, that's why they didn't ask 2 grand for it and only asked 1 !
If the price is too high then it's not worth pursuing and I would look elsewhere. If it's semi within your price range, then try and negotiate. Sometimes the bigger clown is the guy who took that time out of his day to message a seller without the intention to buy the thing in the first place.
don't waste your time
unless its a pin you really want... and know the general value of,,, then you can try to explain all that (complete disclosure as to your interest, your knowledge base and you willingness to buy) Make a fair offer...
see how he responds.,,, or not..... but let it go after that
I have picked up 2-3 pins that way over the years- the trick to not piss him off (IF YOU WANT IT)
but back to main point - if you just think its a crazy high price yada yada and want to "splain" to him the error of his ways... FORGET-ABOUT-IT
my 2 cents
Quoted from LyonsRonnie1:See the nuance?
Actually, I hadn't thought about it that way. I actually attended a conference earlier this week where we basically learned the same thing. I hadn't thought about applying the same technique for something like a pinball machine. I guess someone would be more likely to sell to someone they know is going to love and care for the machine for years (like they may or may not have done) instead of some jackass know-it-all. Makes sense.
sure... Why limit the price policing to pinside, expand your territory!
ESPECIALLY since you had zero interest in the pin! That makes it even better.
In fact, why limit this to pinball? (Sounds like you police other items as well, guitars?)
Why not walk around to people selling their homes and tell them what you think as well...and cars.... Maybe hit up a few bars and tell the guys the women they are hitting on are a bit on the ugly side as well.
You're going to be busy...
The problem it seems is some of the most obnoxiously cheap people think they are experts on everything. And they love to talk about it. I remember I had a decent Cow Poke listed for sale for $1500. A guy probably thinking he was doing me a great service wrote to tell me I was crazy and in the condition it was in was worth $350. I sold it for $1200 and his email was absolutely no benefit to either of us other than being irritating. I usually sell a few a year and will remember if he ever approaches me again. If he had used a different approach I may have been more receptive and at the very least be open to working with him in the future.
You may think your knowledge will help this disillusioned seller get on the right track. Reality is wether your priced high, right on or too low there is always a panel of experts to try to influence the sale to their benefit.
CL pretty much sucks. People post stuff, then don't respond when you show interest. Prices tend to be pretty high, and when you come back with a reasonable price based off recent sales, they tell you they have people lined up...yet it stays on CL forever. Every once in a while you get lucky, but it's become further and further between that it happens. Pinside tends to be the best place to make contact, at least for me...got my acdc, tz, Xmen and lotr through pinside and couldn't be happier.
Would we contact a seller of a house and tell them they are asking $20k too much? I don't get the price police mentality.
I'd make an offer if I wanted it, but not send "helpful" emails.
Quoted from Pahuffman:Actually, I hadn't thought about it that way. I actually attended a conference earlier this week where we basically learned the same thing. I hadn't thought about applying the same technique for something like a pinball machine. I guess someone would be more likely to sell to someone they know is going to love and care for the machine for years (like they may or may not have done) instead of some jackass know-it-all. Makes sense.
You've also got to keep in mind that the guy doesn't know anything about you, except what you just typed him. It comes off as a little aggressive, the majority of people who get that are going to think "This guy's an ass, I don't want him around little Johnny!" and not want you anywhere near their house.
On the other hand, if you come off as some guy who just likes pinball (which is who you really are, right?) then you start looking like the PERFECT PERSON for them to sell their machine to. They may not get as much money for it as they imagined, but at least the game will get fixed and somebody will enjoy Grandpa's old Space Time.
It makes the deal a win/win where you both compromise. You pay a little more than you want $400, and they sell for less than they want, but because of the way it was handled they come off thinking they're happy with the deal.
Just my opinion.
Quoted from roc-noc:Get a life!!!
Who are you? William Shatner? I have one. Things just rarely come up for sale around here, but I guess I just got tired of seeing ridiculous prices when something does show up. This is the first time I've sent anything ever about a pin - that's why I asked everyone's opinion. I guess I made the same mistake as you did about me, I assumed the seller didn't know anything about the pin like you assumed I police the Internet all day.
I've gotten more grief here on Pinside trying to get opinions than I probably ever will from that seller. I've learned that it may be best to just lay off and see if the price goes down over time. If I do decide to contact someone, I'll definitely go about doing it a different way.
Quoted from LyonsRonnie1:You've also got to keep in mind that the guy doesn't know anything about you, except what you just typed him. It comes off as a little aggressive, the majority of people who get that are going to think "This guy's an ass, I don't want him around little Johnny!" and not want you anywhere near their house.
On the other hand, if you come off as some guy who just likes pinball (which is who you really are, right?) then you start looking like the PERFECT PERSON for them to sell their machine to. They may not get as much money for it as they imagined, but at least the game will get fixed and somebody will enjoy Grandpa's old Space Time.
It makes the deal a win/win where you both compromise. You pay a little more than you want $400, and they sell for less than they want, but because of the way it was handled they come off thinking they're happy with the deal.
Just my opinion.
You're pretty much spot on. I think I definitely went about it the wrong way. See? I appreciate your insightful and thought out option. That definitely makes me think more about my actions than "Get a life!!!"
Quoted from LyonsRonnie1:Sounds pretty dickish... just my opinion. I'd sell it to just about anybody before I sold it to you in that situation.
Edit: thought i'd expound on this. There are better ways to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish. All you're doing with the above is coming off as confrontational, and pissing the owner (seller) off by talking DOWN the item you're trying to buy from him. There's a cognitive disconnect there on the seller's part... if the item is worth less than what I value it at personally, why do you want it? Doesn't make sense.
Here's a better way to handle it.
"Hello! I saw your cool old Space Time pinball machine on craigslist. I love that thing, I used to play it years ago, it's really fun and I'd like to own one. I can't pay $1000 for it, but if you'd consider $400 for it I could come pick it up from you. Great game!
Thanks!"
See the nuance? Why be a dick to somebody you're trying to get something from? Tell them how nice the game is, tell them how great the font was they typed the ad in. There's no need to beat up the machine, they already know all the flaws in it, that's why they didn't ask 2 grand for it and only asked 1 !
Yeah, if I received that, I wouldn't be happy about that person. I've had people low ball me, but at least they were nice about it and explained. Even so, I said thank you and sold it to someone more near my asking price. This hobby is way to small to piss someone off. Sometimes not saying something is better.
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Hoover, AL
