(Topic ID: 233080)

Is it OK to level games on location?


By pinlink

10 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 173 posts
  • 89 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 48 days ago by KingHebes
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic poll

    “Is it OK to level games on location?”

    • Yes 103 votes
      40%
    • No 144 votes
      55%
    • Other 13 votes
      5%

    (260 votes)

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 3 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    leg_leveler_heavy_duty (resized).jpg
    armytrainingsir (resized).jpg
    giphy.gif

    There are 173 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
    #101 3 months ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    Gotta be honest... I'm firmly in the "don't touch my stuff" camp.

    Can't blame you for that. A custom game like your Star Trek that you put a lot of work into. Best leave the owner deal with anything that needs attention. Especially if a player thinks there is a problem and there isn't.

    LTG : )

    #102 3 months ago

    I'll Remember not to touch a machines when a coil gets locked on

    #103 3 months ago
    Quoted from advans13:

    Do you put a napkin under a wobbly table at a restaurant? I sure as shit do.

    Does a wobbly table cost as much as a pinball machine? Does the table loose significant value when it bumps into another table causing a ding, scratch or scuff? Dose a table provide the primary means of income at a location?

    Best to just leave other people’s property alone.

    #104 3 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Make your fucking tilt tighter

    Lol, they're plenty tight. Doesn't do anything for the rage push, does it?

    #105 3 months ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    Personally I'd rather the patron turn the power off, at least then I'd know something is wrong with a particular machine. When staff doesn't report it, it can get frustrating. I usually rely pretty heavily on payouts and regulars.

    That doesn't do jack since staff usually turns the pins off at night and back on in the morning. Bad staff is a management issue that is correctable.

    If you don't trust the staff use pinballmap.

    #106 3 months ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    That doesn't do jack since staff usually turns the pins off at night and back on in the morning.

    Power cycling?!?

    Quoted from Brijam:

    Lol, they're plenty tight. Doesn't do anything for the rage push, does it?

    Ha of course not; if it's too tight I'm going to double tilt the shit out of it

    #107 3 months ago

    I would never try to adjust the pitch of a game... even if I felt that it was a bit off. Play it as it lies.

    However... if there is a game I know well and its clearly not leveled side-to-side I'll definitely use a few beer coasters to get things in a playable state and usually try to let the operators know. I traveled 3 hours once to play a Premium version of Iron Maiden and the damn game was listing so hard to one side it almost ruined my trip. Couple coasters and a little adjusting as to where it sat on the floor and viola. The game was feeding balls like it should have (judging by the pro version that i've played to death). I don't think I'd dream of trying to adjust the feet on a game unless I was given a specific OK from the operator.

    Quoted from vwallat99:

    Depends on how badly unlevel the game is. I was at Blainebrook recently and the Metallica was horribly unlevel. After a few drinks my give a shit really goes away and I couldn't help but fix the damn thing. I'm very meticulous when it comes to my games and if a light bulb is out it will drive me nuts. So playing on location is tough for me. But if its a simple thing like throwing a coaster folded up under a leg to help out? I'm going to do so. Metallica is too good to be unlevel.

    Blainebrook is the exact location where the above mentioned Iron Maiden Premium was. Very disheartening to see such a nice collection of machines and you get to one and its just wonky as hell.

    #108 3 months ago
    Quoted from advans13:

    Do you put a napkin under a wobbly table at a restaurant? I sure as shit do.

    Uh oh. Don’t let the chef see you rearrange his table or he’ll cut off your johnson.

    Come on Pinball Ops, a table put in public to be played by the public is not not a faberge’ egg. If your game is out of kilter, you should welcome someone trying to help or at least not want to murder him. They plan to put some coin into your game once corrected, maybe a lot.

    #109 3 months ago
    Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

    If your game is out of kilter, you should welcome someone trying to help or at least not want to murder him.

    You are coming from experience and knowledge on how to do these things. And how the game should be.

    Too many people don't know what they are doing, why, or how. Yet forge ahead no matter how bad things get.

    LTG : )
    Disclaimer : May not want to murder them. Would like to hurt them a little.

    #110 3 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Power cycling?!?

    I’d rather staff left them on 24/7.

    Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

    a table put in public to be played by the public is not not a faberge’ egg.

    Said nobody at all.

    It’s simple: don’t fuck with something you don’t own. Road to hell and all. Want to help? REPORT IT.

    #111 3 months ago

    Since this seems to have escaped people's attention the first time, I'll say it again. Ops should be tightening down the leg leveler nuts. If you do this, the game will not go out of level unless it is physically moved to a different spot at the location.

    Problem solved. Really, it is that simple and we'd be done with this discussion if the damn nuts were tightened.

    But that is too simple of a solution I guess. It is better to have games go out of level on location so we can have threads that run on for over 100 posts debating something that should be a non-issue.

    Sorry for the snark, but I get tired of seeing people beating their head over something with such a simple solution that was provided by every game manufacturer: a nut.

    Finally, I'm not talking out my ass. I operate games. I tighten the nuts. My games are level and stay level.

    #112 3 months ago
    Quoted from stangbat:

    Ops should be tightening down the leg leveler nuts. If you do this, the game will not go out of level unless it is physically moved to a different spot at the location.

    Or the customer has a wrench with him. If they think they know best, they'll come prepared.

    LTG : )

    #113 3 months ago
    Quoted from stangbat:

    Since this seems to have escaped people's attention the first time, I'll say it again. Ops should be tightening down the leg leveler nuts. If you do this, the game will not go out of level unless it is physically moved to a different spot at the location.
    Problem solved. Really, it is that simple and we'd be done with this discussion if the damn nuts were tightened.
    But that is too simple of a solution I guess. It is better to have games go out of level on location so we can have threads that run on for over 100 posts debating something that should be a non-issue.
    Sorry for the snark, but I get tired of seeing people beating their head over something with such a simple solution that was provided by every game manufacturer: a nut.
    Finally, I'm not talking out my ass. I operate games. I tighten the nuts. My games are level and stay level.

    The op at my location doesn't have a top and bottom nut on most of them. Have you tried the rubber or silicon feet to help against slide save and death save movement? Curious if they are worth it on location.

    #114 3 months ago
    Quoted from KingHebes:

    The op at my location doesn't have a top and bottom nut on most of them. Have you tried the rubber or silicon feet to help against slide save and death save movement? Curious if they are worth it on location.

    Doesn't matter, use the nuts no matter what. New games certainly come with them. If an old game is missing them it is a whopping 60 cents/game:
    https://www.pinballlife.com/tightening-nut-for-leg-levelers-and-leg-bolts.html

    #115 3 months ago

    I feel like there was a really easy answer to this problem - Ask the location!

    Or, if the game has a phone number on it, give them a call!

    In most cases, a location that is told what you are doing will approve it and then not freak out when they see you doing it. Many companies actually answer the phone today when you call too.

    Probably five years ago, I was at a location that had a MM that was barely playable. I called the operator, who is sort of known around my area for not really caring about their machines. The guy answered, I explained the issue, and he said that he unfortunately couldn't get to it that night because the location closed in 30 minutes and he was more than 20 minutes out, but he would go first thing the next day to fix it.

    I happened to be in the area the next day. He did.

    Most operators are FAR more responsive to issues than people give them credit for, and want their games to be good. If I would have called them and said hey, this game is super leaning to one side, I bet they would have given me permission to level it once they knew I wasn't an idiot.

    And the location will know this too. Location games are more or less co-owned between the location and the owners of the machines. If you ask someone, they'll know if it would be a yes or no to fixing it.

    While I'm sure we're all altruistic on here too, I do know of cases where players have jacked up the front leg levers on machines to make them play much slower so they can theoretically play longer. Stuff like that definitely does and should give owners pause too.

    #116 3 months ago

    Not gonna read this whole thread but I will level a game on location, at a show, even at your damn house. Without asking. If you don't like it, kick me out.

    #117 3 months ago
    Quoted from yancy:

    Not gonna read this whole thread but I will level a game on location, at a show, even at your damn house. Without asking. If you don't like it, kick me out.

    On one game I had to raise the fronts up a little, otherwise the incline would of been almost 8 degrees. Someone moved them all the way back down, and left the game teetering on three legs. Think some people get confused when they see the front legs raised. This is why I'd rather people not touch em, not to mention the liability involved. Seems innocent enough, and I've never heard of anyone getting hurt leveling a game.. but stuff happens.

    #118 3 months ago
    Quoted from stangbat:

    Since this seems to have escaped people's attention the first time, I'll say it again. Ops should be tightening down the leg leveler nuts. If you do this, the game will not go out of level unless it is physically moved to a different spot at the location.
    Problem solved. Really, it is that simple and we'd be done with this discussion if the damn nuts were tightened.
    But that is too simple of a solution I guess. It is better to have games go out of level on location so we can have threads that run on for over 100 posts debating something that should be a non-issue.
    Sorry for the snark, but I get tired of seeing people beating their head over something with such a simple solution that was provided by every game manufacturer: a nut.
    Finally, I'm not talking out my ass. I operate games. I tighten the nuts. My games are level and stay level.

    I’m onboard team Stangbat. Nut up or shut up! Ops can prevent the issue if they choose. I’m going to do this at home too, just cause it’s the right way to do things. Surely, Stangbat’s got the tightest nuts in town.

    #119 3 months ago

    I love it. It really is that simple.

    #120 3 months ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    Yep, me too.
    I'd rather have the game off and I don't know about it, than have it turned on and stealing quarters from people as an unplayable game. The latter is much worse for your reputation and customer service.

    So how would you feel if someone just turned the game off and there was nothing wrong with it?
    Now your loosing money.

    not making a point, just a question.

    #121 3 months ago
    Quoted from stangbat:

    I love it. It really is that simple.

    Make a T-shirt with your tag line and avatar. Maybe offer a color version other than b or w and I’ll buy 2.

    #122 3 months ago

    I would never try to level someone's game on location. 1st you don't have access to the PF to do it properly. 2nd IT'S NOT MY GAME! I'd finish my game and be done if it was that bad.

    Side note..... I'm always amazed how many games at Pinfest in Allentown are slope challenged or way off level side to side. I've played one ball on so many machines and just walked away. Why try to sell a game in the free play area with a miserable 3 degree (or less) slope where the ball just lazily rolls down the PF? Or games that are so off side to side you laugh when they give you a gravity drain from poor leveling.

    #123 3 months ago
    Quoted from tomdrum:

    I'm always amazed how many games at Pinfest in Allentown are slope challenged or way off level side to side. I've played one ball on so many machines and just walked away.

    It's like that at most shows where people bring their own games. For some reason they do 95% of the work to bring a pin, but stop just short of getting it level, aka playable. I gave up trying to figure it out and just started leveling games. If you've been to Chicago Expo in the last 18 years, you probably played a game I didn't own, but leveled. And you didn't have to walk away after one ball. You're welcome.

    #124 3 months ago

    I've got a couple level happy pinsiders that always try to tell me some of my games need leveling. lol.

    Even ones I leveled precisely just the day before. hahaha

    Don't mess with my pitch either or you will receive the wrath of o-din.

    #125 3 months ago
    Quoted from yancy:

    If you've been to Chicago Expo in the last 18 years, you probably played a game I didn't own, but leveled. And you didn't have to walk away after one ball. You're welcome.

    Nope. Most of us PA pinball people know a good thing when we have it, Allentown and York. and if I saw someone leveling a game they just randomly walked up to, we'd be WTF. Usually at Pinfest there are multiples of many titles so just find another that's set up properly. If you brought a game to sell and didn't bother to take the last 3 steps to the finish line, shame on you. I'll be the one there on Saturday afternoon low balling you since it sits unsold!

    #126 3 months ago
    Quoted from yancy:

    For some reason they do 95% of the work to bring a pin, but stop just short of getting it level, aka playable.

    Because - It's already a chore to shop/wax/test/repair, breakdown, drive w/ trailer (hours), and then set back up. Further; you know you're going to have to work on the machine (or at least I do)… so by the time I'm done setting up 5-7machines; I'm exhausted... hungry and thirsty. By the time I'm back from solving the last two; the show is open and I can't work around the attendees.

    No; my machines are never for sale. Always there, working for free play only.

    Thank you for leveling machines for other attendees. just be careful with my stuff.

    #127 3 months ago

    But he's not talkin about yer machines Zitt he's talkin bout 10 Sinbads in a row.

    #128 3 months ago
    Quoted from tomdrum:

    1st you don't have access to the PF to do it properly.

    You don't need access to the playfield to level a game that's drifting left or right.
    Jesus you guys are nerds.

    #129 3 months ago
    Quoted from Gryszzz:

    But he's not talkin about yer machines Zitt he's talkin bout 10 Sinbads in a row.

    Zitt's games got 20 pinstadiums in a row.

    #130 3 months ago

    there was a time when men trained to crawl under machines and lift them with their backs in order to adjust the rear levelers.

    armytrainingsir (resized).jpg
    #131 3 months ago

    I personally think I’m qualified to adjust the front levelers of a pin if it’s painfully obvious a ball is drifting right or left.

    I wouldn’t do this at a location where the operator is present, but a bar with one or two pins, yep...every time.

    #132 3 months ago
    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    I personally think I’m qualified to adjust the front levelers of a pin if it’s painfully obvious a ball is drifting right or left.
    I wouldn’t do this at a location where the operator is present, but a bar with one or two pins, yep...every time.

    Of course on all counts. We're not talking aboot an arcade with a dude sitting there working.
    Guess what, I'm not wasting everyone's goddamn time Friday night to go up to the bar to tell someone that gives exactly 0 shits a pinball machine no one gives even less shits aboot is "drifting maybe 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch to the port side."

    #133 3 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Zitt's games got 20 pinstadiums in a row.

    Not a chance in hell that will ever happen now... unless it's here on the website in the promo boxes.

    #134 3 months ago

    if games are not setup properly and working I do not give them my money.

    -7
    #135 3 months ago

    The level of entitlement and self-delusion that someone has to have that they think they have the right to make "personal adjustments" on other people's property makes me sick.

    Just yesterday I caught some homeless people trying to jimmy the lock on a fully enclosed and locked trash area. All so they could scrounge for fifty cents of recyclable cans. They didn't give a flying fuck about the $200 lock they were about to bust. No, they were entitled to their damn fifty cents. Exact same bullshit snowflake attitude.

    Stop it. Show some respect.

    #136 3 months ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    The level of entitlement and self-delusion that someone has to have that they think they have the right to make "personal adjustments" on other people's property makes me sick.

    Get over yourself quarter counter!
    But seriously, I get sick of people thinking me leveling your shit ass game 3 turns to the right is the same as a filthy bum breaking your lock.
    Stop it, show some respect is right.

    -6
    #137 3 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    But seriously, I get sick of people thinking me leveling your shit ass game 3 turns to the right is the same as a filthy bum breaking your lock.

    You should be feeling sick about fucking with someone else's property. Shame on you.

    #138 3 months ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    Said nobody at all.

    From your blog: http://pinblog.rampantplatypus.com/getting-over-being-a-collector/

    "Pinball machines are not princesses
    But the biggest thing was getting over thinking of my pinball machines as special princesses to be treated delicately. When you route your pinball machines, people are going to beat on them. It’s what people do. You can’t stop it.

    When I first put my pinball machines on route I remember sitting nearby having lunch and some children came up. They didn’t play, but they banged on the glass and left greasy smudges all over the glass. I could have gotten mad, or shooed them away, or worried about the game getting damaged.

    But instead I just ignored it and enjoyed my lunch, happy that they got some free entertainment. After they left I cleaned the glass.

    That’s how you have to be.

    Young kids are going to button mash the flippers, bang on the glass, dry fire the plunger over and over again, and leave greasy smears behind. Adults will slam the plunger with their open palm, kick, lift, drop, and jerk the machine, leave food bits on the glass, spill beer, and everything else kids do too. It’s okay. They can take it. Pinball machines are built to withstand the rigors of daily public punishment. It’s baked into the design over decades and decades."

    #139 3 months ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    You should be feeling sick about fucking with someone else's property. Shame on you.

    Quoted from wmanningiv:

    From your blog: http://pinblog.rampantplatypus.com/getting-over-being-a-collector/
    "... Adults will slam the plunger with their open palm, kick, lift, drop, and jerk the machine, leave food bits on the glass, spill beer, and everything else kids do too. It’s okay. They can take it. "

    Bwhahahaa!

    #140 3 months ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    You should be feeling sick about fucking with someone else's property. Shame on you.

    If your game is tilted to the left or right enough to cause bullshit drains, you are damn skippy I'm putting a coaster underneath a leg. That money is MY property and if YOUR property isn't doing what it is supposed to be doing then the simplest option that does NO HARM is usually the best. Carrying around a level to see if a game is worthy to play before putting money in it is stupid.

    #141 3 months ago
    Quoted from wmanningiv:

    Young kids are going to button mash the flippers, bang on the glass, dry fire the plunger over and over again, and leave greasy smears behind.

    Aint that the truth.
    I once took my brand new ST:MU homebrew to a local weekend maker event here in Austin.
    I had to walk away because of all the kids double flipping with no real understanding of what they were trying to do. On one hand; I was happy they were experiencing Pinball for probably the first time... on the other I was disappointed they were "Free range" without their parents really supervising anything. It was clear that a lot of people didn't understand what Pinball was.

    #142 3 months ago
    Quoted from wmanningiv:

    From your blog: http://pinblog.rampantplatypus.com/getting-over-being-a-collector/
    "Pinball machines are not princesses
    But the biggest thing was getting over thinking of my pinball machines as special princesses to be treated delicately. When you route your pinball machines, people are going to beat on them. It’s what people do. You can’t stop it.
    When I first put my pinball machines on route I remember sitting nearby having lunch and some children came up. They didn’t play, but they banged on the glass and left greasy smudges all over the glass. I could have gotten mad, or shooed them away, or worried about the game getting damaged.
    But instead I just ignored it and enjoyed my lunch, happy that they got some free entertainment. After they left I cleaned the glass.
    That’s how you have to be.
    Young kids are going to button mash the flippers, bang on the glass, dry fire the plunger over and over again, and leave greasy smears behind. Adults will slam the plunger with their open palm, kick, lift, drop, and jerk the machine, leave food bits on the glass, spill beer, and everything else kids do too. It’s okay. They can take it. Pinball machines are built to withstand the rigors of daily public punishment. It’s baked into the design over decades and decades."

    LOL. You can't make this stuff up!

    And leveling the games - likely done by somebody that actually knows how the game should play - is the REAL problem.

    What. A. Clown.

    #143 3 months ago
    Quoted from wmanningiv:

    From your blog: http://pinblog.rampantplatypus.com/getting-over-being-a-collector/
    "Pinball machines are not princesses
    But the biggest thing was getting over thinking of my pinball machines as special princesses to be treated delicately. When you route your pinball machines, people are going to beat on them. It’s what people do. You can’t stop it.
    When I first put my pinball machines on route I remember sitting nearby having lunch and some children came up. They didn’t play, but they banged on the glass and left greasy smudges all over the glass. I could have gotten mad, or shooed them away, or worried about the game getting damaged.
    But instead I just ignored it and enjoyed my lunch, happy that they got some free entertainment. After they left I cleaned the glass.
    That’s how you have to be.
    Young kids are going to button mash the flippers, bang on the glass, dry fire the plunger over and over again, and leave greasy smears behind. Adults will slam the plunger with their open palm, kick, lift, drop, and jerk the machine, leave food bits on the glass, spill beer, and everything else kids do too. It’s okay. They can take it. Pinball machines are built to withstand the rigors of daily public punishment. It’s baked into the design over decades and decades."

    So let me get this straight. Someone here suggested someone was calling pinball machines faberge eggs. Then I wrote 'said nobody at all.' And you link to me writing that pinball machines aren't faberge eggs. So, thanks for helping me make my point.

    Or do you somehow believe that because I wrote this that I condone this behavior? That it makes it right? That I like it when people do this?

    And Swainer80 does anyone give a shit if you slip a coaster under their pin, of course not. Again, "said nobody at all."

    Lifting a machine, adjusting bolts, flipping the power? NO. That's not okay. You think the machine isn't level, broken, whatever, report it and go play another game. As a bonus if you report it we will gladly refund your two quarters, because that's the right thing to do.

    #144 3 months ago

    thank god everyones semantics are on the same level.

    #145 3 months ago

    The answer is NO!!! If you don't own the machine it's not yours to mess with. There are so many know it all morons out there who think they have a genius level IQ but in reality they just can't play for sh!t. They then blame it on the machine and think it's OK to prove how smart they are by un-leveling a perfectly level machine. Machines on location are another mans livelihood and you should NEVER mess with another mans livelihood. It can get very ugly.

    #146 3 months ago

    I'll start leveling location games when I start collecting money from them. If a game becomes unplayable (mechanical breakdown, etc.) I'll switch it off and call the operator and tell a location employee. If a game's level and/or pitch is really jacked I'll call. In the meantime I'll quit dumping money into it.

    /not an op.

    #147 3 months ago

    I’m asuming the term “leveling” is being used generically here for left/right level and recommended front/back pitch. If that is the case, shouldn’t a true leveling be done from the playfield with the glass off?

    I will say, that the thing that bugs me most is when the pitch is too low. I once played an Indiana Jones where it took about 5 seconds for the ball to drop from the top of the playfield to the bottom. Drove me crazy, and a real disappointment.

    #148 3 months ago
    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    If that is the case, shouldn’t a true leveling be done from the playfield with the glass off?

    Unnecessary if you’re good at it.

    #149 3 months ago
    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    I once played an Indiana Jones where it took about 5 seconds for the ball to drop from the top of the playfield to the bottom. Drove me crazy, and a real disappointment.

    I always walk away from super floaty games, feel like I'm about to fall asleep waiting on the ball to come back. The games in the AP booth were set up this way, almost like they were at a 5.5 degree incline. Left those and found another octoberfest that was set up descent from another vendor.

    #150 3 months ago
    Quoted from KingHebes:

    The op at my location doesn't have a top and bottom nut on most of them. Have you tried the rubber or silicon feet to help against slide save and death save movement? Curious if they are worth it on location.

    I have silicon feet on all my location pins, also have the nuts tightened up on all of them. Pins are perfectly leveled and pitched, the ground is marked where the levelers go. No reason at all to mess with them. People still do stupid ”tricks” to adjust the pins to their liking. Somebody the other day removed the back silicone feet on a Tron to lower the degree of slope so it plays flatter. I never did find the silicone feet, had to break up a new set of silicone feet to replace the two from Tron that disappeared.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 7,999.00
    Pinball Machine
    Nitro Pinball USA
    $ 29.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 149.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Id Rather Play Pinball
    $ 29.50
    Playfield - Plastics
    Pinball Haus
    From: $ 99.00
    Lighting - Under Cabinet
    Rock Custom Pinball
    $ 99.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 29.95
    $ 159.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 109.99
    $ 129.00
    Lighting - Led
    LED OCD
    $ 263.55
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    PinWoofer
    $ 15.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 60.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    The Pinball Vault
    $ 7,499.00
    Pinball Machine
    Great American Pinball
    $ 26.00
    Playfield - Other
    Pin Monk
    $ 109.95
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    Pinball Pro
    $ 22.00
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 50.00
    $ 28.00
    Playfield - Other
    Pin Monk
    $ 999.00
    Flipper Parts
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 99.99
    $ 24.00
    Playfield - Other
    Pin Monk
    $ 89.00
    Cabinet Parts
    Pappy's Pinball Palace
    There are 173 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside